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Old 12-09-2012, 03:11 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dobies 71 View Post
Wonder how long this post will last...or maybe I end up doghoused...who cares really, I don't even post over here much anymore as the result of the above.
I don't really see what about this post is reportable... However, while I'm not going to dig through your post history on my phone I'm pretty sure you've said things very similar to this multiple times. Why not just leave yourself if you're so unhappy?
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:13 PM   #102 (permalink)
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And, this is just why many of the real breeders of quality Dobermans have left this forum.
Right, because you clearly know each and every quality breeder that has ever been on this forum... /eyeroll

Considering there are still quite a few quality breeders left here, and ones that have posted in this very thread, I imagine your idea of a quality breeder and the rest of the majority of the forum are quite different. And if its so bad, I'm sure you can manage to find the logout button.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:04 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:20 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Wow, that's mean.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:07 PM   #105 (permalink)
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The whole place is so mean, I can think of at least 6 respected breeders that have left.

You can be as defensive as you want. The issue remains.

I miss the posts of the informed ones because everyone then learns from such.

They are gone. I don't read or post much either as a result. Then you add the ones who want to push the others out...and you get my drift.

I really don't care what others think...they only think mean.

So if you post on a forum of any kind actually, then all it is a bunch of bullying. This forum is LOADED with BULLIES.

Makes money by hits...gets sponsers from hit numbers. Sponsers equal dollars. If you are not bright enough to see this then I do feel for you if you think its not.

You claim to love the breed, but man oh man...you should act more like the dogs you love and be more kind to one another. It sure hasn't done this place one bit of good.

This is how we lose in this game: By not being together as one.

It should be renamed Bullyville. I've seen so many real new people come on her and be chastised to the max. Its a real shame.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:47 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Wow.. this is from one of the "reputable breeders" mentioned on this forum:

Sorry, we do not breed for pet quality Dobermanns.There are hundreds of breeders in North Americans that can help you. Poor quality but that will have what you want.

What the f***? All I asked was if they had any puppies for a companion pet. They could have just said no we only sell to working homes, etc. Sorry if that was supposed to be universal knowledge. isnt that basically directing me to a BYB
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:22 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsune View Post
Wow.. this is from one of the "reputable breeders" mentioned on this forum:

Sorry, we do not breed for pet quality Dobermanns.There are hundreds of breeders in North Americans that can help you. Poor quality but that will have what you want.

What the f***? All I asked was if they had any puppies for a companion pet. They could have just said no we only sell to working homes, etc. Sorry if that was supposed to be universal knowledge. isnt that basically directing me to a BYB
That breeder sounds a bit delusional. No matter what you are breeding for (working, show, or a bit of both) there will almost always be pets in the litter.
Being reputable is different from being ethical, and is certainly a far cry from being polite. That's why people still have to do their own research. I am certain you will find someone who is ethical and friendly. I would just chalk it up to experience.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:10 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kalecho View Post
Wow, that's mean.
Yes, perhaps it was a bit mean.
But you have to admit that with fewer than 8 posts on the forum, this one stirred the pot. Suspiciously troll-ish.
All the mentions of reputable breeders on the original ear cropping post seemed well-intentioned.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:01 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobies 71 View Post
The whole place is so mean, I can think of at least 6 respected breeders that have left.

You can be as defensive as you want. The issue remains.

I miss the posts of the informed ones because everyone then learns from such.

They are gone. I don't read or post much either as a result. Then you add the ones who want to push the others out...and you get my drift.

I really don't care what others think...they only think mean.

So if you post on a forum of any kind actually, then all it is a bunch of bullying. This forum is LOADED with BULLIES.

Makes money by hits...gets sponsers from hit numbers. Sponsers equal dollars. If you are not bright enough to see this then I do feel for you if you think its not.

You claim to love the breed, but man oh man...you should act more like the dogs you love and be more kind to one another. It sure hasn't done this place one bit of good.

This is how we lose in this game: By not being together as one.

It should be renamed Bullyville. I've seen so many real new people come on her and be chastised to the max. Its a real shame.
Not every good breeder has left this forum - some come and go, but if you really KNOW the forums over the years, it is pretty much the same breeders that answer questions year in and year out..... on whatever forum is active at the time. Plenty of breeders come on for a short period of time - for various reasons and with or without agendas. But for other various reasons, most don't stay for the long haul. You start looking at the breeders on this list and it isn't hard to figure out who is on here for the long haul AND is in it for a true love of the breed - not just to toot their own horn or sell puppies.

I personally am not on as much as I used to be - mostly because I work part time and have a life which includes a husband, teenagers, dogs, friends.... and puppy owners. I also don't post on a lot of threads, but still skim through a lot of them to see if I can actually make a contribution to it. I try to stay positive, but sometimes it can be hard.... I tend to avoid those kinds of threads for the most part.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:02 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsune View Post
Wow.. this is from one of the "reputable breeders" mentioned on this forum:

Sorry, we do not breed for pet quality Dobermanns.There are hundreds of breeders in North Americans that can help you. Poor quality but that will have what you want.

What the f***? All I asked was if they had any puppies for a companion pet. They could have just said no we only sell to working homes, etc. Sorry if that was supposed to be universal knowledge. isnt that basically directing me to a BYB
Stick to your good ethics, and write this one up as "Phew, dodged a bullet there, thank goodness that human showed me their true colors, prior to getting tangled up with them."

It's tough, finding an ethical breeder who does things right, and with whom you feel you can communicate.

I've personally seen some "reputable" breeders on this and other forums where I've felt the word "batshit" could easily have been substituted.

Eh, it is what it is. Sometimes we humans expect that, because of someone's role, they should automatically be professional, polite, and trustworthy, and it kinda kerfuffles us when they just clearly are NOT.

Hang in there. It will pay off, in the end.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:38 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Quote:
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That breeder sounds a bit delusional. No matter what you are breeding for (working, show, or a bit of both) there will almost always be pets in the litter.
Being reputable is different from being ethical, and is certainly a far cry from being polite. That's why people still have to do their own research. I am certain you will find someone who is ethical and friendly. I would just chalk it up to experience.
Hes from California so it would have been one of my farthest go to places from my choices.. but still.
I was so shocked when I received the email. Having read some good things (and bad actually afterwards) I kind of thought this forum would place reputable and ethical together with all the strong support against BYBs
Im slowly piecing breeders together for my list of candidates.
I understand they have their own busy lives.. but heck a little friendly wouldnt kill ya! I feel kind of sorry for his puppies owners.. god forbid if I had some newbie question. Also his terrible engrish bothers me lol
Anyways thanks to dobes&hounds and redfawnrising.

Last edited by kitsune; 12-10-2012 at 01:40 PM..
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:00 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Kitsune, I think I know who you're talking about.
I recently got a PM about, who I suspect to be, the same breeder saying that those dogs aren't for the average ("American") dog owner who just wants a "toy" to train and how the breeder is too dedicated to the breed to sell "pet" dogs. *shrug* If that's their prerogative than so be it. As RFR said, just consider it dodging a bullet.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:26 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
Stick to your good ethics, and write this one up as "Phew, dodged a bullet there, thank goodness that human showed me their true colors, prior to getting tangled up with them."

It's tough, finding an ethical breeder who does things right, and with whom you feel you can communicate.

I've personally seen some "reputable" breeders on this and other forums where I've felt the word "batshit" could easily have been substituted.

Eh, it is what it is. Sometimes we humans expect that, because of someone's role, they should automatically be professional, polite, and trustworthy, and it kinda kerfuffles us when they just clearly are NOT.

Hang in there. It will pay off, in the end.
Years ago, when my mother used to show, we had dealt with that a few times.

It is really sad to see people who have this standpoint, but it really comes down to egos and ignorance.

I agree with you, if that is the way this "breeder" is going to be, then screw them anyway, you don't want an animal for someone who claims to be "bettering the breed", especially if they refer you to a BYB.

I am actually in the process of slowly looking for another Doberman of my own, but really not wanting to rush anything, and I have ran into some breeders especially in the Vegas and California area that like to "breed" oversized guard dogs, and have no intentions of breeding correctly, hence the "33 inch shoulder height they brag about.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:32 PM   #114 (permalink)
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OH! I got that email too!! Someone dug up some ancient post where I had thrown in the california breeder's name in a LIST and I got told how absolutely ridiculous I am for insinuating that they have pets.

And honestly, they used to have much better pedigrees than they do now. I think a lot of the lines they are breeding now should have plenty of pet quality puppies if you catch my drift.

I responded multiple times to the person with normal logical questions and they never responded. Figures.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:34 PM   #115 (permalink)
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OH! I got that email too!! Someone dug up some ancient post where I had thrown in the california breeder's name in a LIST and I got told how absolutely ridiculous I am for insinuating that they have pets.

And honestly, they used to have much better pedigrees than they do now. I think a lot of the lines they are breeding now should have plenty of pet quality puppies if you catch my drift.

I responded multiple times to the person with normal logical questions and they never responded. Figures.

I would be very curious to see exactly who you guys are talking about...
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:11 PM   #116 (permalink)
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There are some show breeders out there that truly believe that all of their dogs should show..... But, it is a RARE litter that is all show quality, and for the most part an "all show" litter means that there are several "pet" dogs that are being shown - as always this is just my opinion

As for me, I have several show quality dogs that are spending their lives as pets because I'd rather see them in a good pet home than a so-so show home. AND as a small time occasional breeder, I don't get people beating down my door for a show dog when I do have a litter.... their loss, and a pet homes gain.

Also, as a breeder, I can honestly say that pet homes are a lot easier to deal with than show homes. I would not want a whole litter of show homes - YIKES!! I'm happy to have 2 show homes in a litter and as far as I'm concerned the rest could go to good pet/performance homes. JMHO
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:11 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Kitsune, I think I know who you're talking about.
I recently got a PM about, who I suspect to be, the same breeder saying that those dogs aren't for the average ("American") dog owner who just wants a "toy" to train and how the breeder is too dedicated to the breed to sell "pet" dogs. *shrug* If that's their prerogative than so be it. As RFR said, just consider it dodging a bullet.
I don't think it's the same breeder, but I got multiple PMs from different screen names back when I thought I was buying chewing me out for even mentioning that I might be going with an NA breeder. When I asked questions trying to figure out if I was being trolled or if they had a legitimate concern about the breeders I was mulling over, they simply responded with "I thought you would be different"
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:29 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Please report any kind of harassment like that to us, there's a "report PM" icon just for this.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:42 PM   #119 (permalink)
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There are some show breeders out there that truly believe that all of their dogs should show..... But, it is a RARE litter that is all show quality, and for the most part an "all show" litter means that there are several "pet" dogs that are being shown - as always this is just my opinion

As for me, I have several show quality dogs that are spending their lives as pets because I'd rather see them in a good pet home than a so-so show home. AND as a small time occasional breeder, I don't get people beating down my door for a show dog when I do have a litter.... their loss, and a pet homes gain.

Also, as a breeder, I can honestly say that pet homes are a lot easier to deal with than show homes. I would not want a whole litter of show homes - YIKES!! I'm happy to have 2 show homes in a litter and as far as I'm concerned the rest could go to good pet/performance homes. JMHO
See, this is an opinion/attitude that I would think would be more popular. I mean, champion progeny is all well and good, but you don't want to be up nights worrying and getting grey hairs because of all of the dogs you produced going into all of those show homes who also have a lot of dogs, producing or otherwise...

Or, I don't know what I'm talking about. Amazingly, it doesn't keep me from talking. But, I like that opinion. A good pet home (and/or performance home) is better than a mediocre show home.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:39 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Please report any kind of harassment like that to us, there's a "report PM" icon just for this.
It wasn't altogether "rude" and the exchanges began quite politely so I didn't think of it at the time, just shrugged and deleted them. Will keep in mind if it happens again
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:45 PM   #121 (permalink)
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It wasn't altogether "rude" and the exchanges began quite politely so I didn't think of it at the time, just shrugged and deleted them. Will keep in mind if it happens again
I know the breeder you are talking about because they are well known for saying that. To those that don't know, they are NOT a show breeder.


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Old 12-10-2012, 04:57 PM   #122 (permalink)
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There are some show breeders out there that truly believe that all of their dogs should show..... But, it is a RARE litter that is all show quality, and for the most part an "all show" litter means that there are several "pet" dogs that are being shown - as always this is just my opinion

As for me, I have several show quality dogs that are spending their lives as pets because I'd rather see them in a good pet home than a so-so show home. AND as a small time occasional breeder, I don't get people beating down my door for a show dog when I do have a litter.... their loss, and a pet homes gain.

Also, as a breeder, I can honestly say that pet homes are a lot easier to deal with than show homes. I would not want a whole litter of show homes - YIKES!! I'm happy to have 2 show homes in a litter and as far as I'm concerned the rest could go to good pet/performance homes. JMHO
The one I've received PMs about was a working breeder. Which IDK about the show world, but its very hard to find good truly working homes (for schutzhund) for dobermans who also have experience training and titling a doberman. Lets face it, the dobermans aren't as heavily wanted as the other breeds, and there's a reason why all of the working doberman people atleast know of eachother! I also heard that this breeder required you have first hand experience titling a doberman in a working sport. Once again, ridiculous.

There are some working litters that have most of the dogs go to working homes, but considering this breeder has recently bred dogs without sufficient titles, expecting no pet homes is ridiculous.

I also wonder about what you talked about. I've seen quite a few people interested in a dog from my trainer to work and train, but the pet homes were chosen over them due to the differences in the life the dogs would have had in those particular working homes.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:58 PM   #123 (permalink)
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I don't think I have ever heard of an entire litter being left natural, not in NA anyway. There are some good working breeders that will leave a pup with natural ears if that's what the owner wants. The problem is sometimes they go for cropping a bit before the breeder has decided who is going where, so it's just easier to do them all.
Covea's entire litter was left all natural, mind you the decision went back and forth for many weeks. This was considered a pretty sought after litter combination. Both parents titled in IPO, and fully health tested. The litter was born in New York.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:26 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Covea's entire litter was left all natural, mind you the decision went back and forth for many weeks. This was considered a pretty sought after litter combination. Both parents titled in IPO, and fully health tested. The litter was born in New York.
Interesting. If I'm lucky my next pup might also be coming from NY. I`m on a waiting list to get on a waiting list
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:00 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Interesting. If I'm lucky my next pup might also be coming from NY. I`m on a waiting list to get on a waiting list
The breeder actually lives in Boston. The trainer who is also a Shepherd breeder whelped the litter.

Hopefully you get on the "real" waiting list!
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