I have a bone to pick... - Page 4 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums

Brianne29 · 12-05-2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Vandart

Cool, is your dobe a rescue?

Because I disapprove of overuse of the word "rescue," I'm going to say no, but I didn't buy him from anyone/anywhere, either. A deadbeat relative of my husband's purchased him from a BYB and wanted to take him to the Humane Society inside of a month. We are active in rescue and felt up for the challenge, so we took him rather than let the relative attempt to rehome or dump him.

Matt Vandart · 12-05-2012, 03:20 PM

Cool, he looks loverly, ahs he got blue eyes or is that a trick of my monitor?
Just goes to show that one need not buy a dog from a BYB.
Guessing he came from one originally though, so the deed is already done by your deadbeat relative

pdubois64 · 12-05-2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burns

And I actually prefer the cropped look over uncropped now, so I think I would have been disappointed in the long run if I had not gotten a cropped pup. That's just my personal opinion, of course.

That's kind of funny because I was the exact opposite. I wanted cropped but Dillon was uncropped because of his heart murmur. Now I prefer uncropped, but my next probably will be cropped because I probably won't have the choice.

Brianne29 · 12-05-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Vandart

Cool, he looks loverly, ahs he got blue eyes or is that a trick of my monitor?
Just goes to show that one need not buy a dog from a BYB.
Guessing he came from one originally though, so the deed is already done by your deadbeat relative

He most certainly did originate from one, and I'm the first to admit that the whole BYB issue is a thorny one ethically.

They are green now, but still quite handsome.

Matt Vandart · 12-06-2012, 04:01 AM

Cool, never seen a green eyed dog before.

KissNme · 12-06-2012, 05:06 AM

Patchwork, I've never read that before. Thank you, though, for putting it back. Sorry OP. I am not involved, really, with your post, but did click to read. I had not read the info before that Patchwork shared this time around on BYB.

KissNme · 12-06-2012, 05:08 AM

Patchwork, I've never read that before. Thank you, though, for putting it back up. Sorry OP. I am not involved, really, with your post, but did click to read. I had not read the info before that Patchwork shared this time around on BYB.

Brianne29 · 12-06-2012, 10:33 AM

Here you go.

Matt Vandart · 12-06-2012, 10:35 AM

aw, they are showing up almond coloured on my screen

**Fitzmar Dobermans** · 12-06-2012, 11:14 AM

For those who think that the people here should be happy to spend yet more time telling yet another person why they made a bad decision as to who to get a puppy from ... and yadda yadda yadda.......

I and some others like me have been doing this for over 10 years already, and are tired of doing it. There are new people taking our place - thank goodness. While education has to be done one person at a time, it gets discouraging when you just see the same thing time after time. There are success stories - thank goodness, but the failures weigh on me. I don't respond to a lot of threads anymore... don't have the time or desire to get called a meanie yet again.

PatchworkRobot · 12-06-2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KissNme

Patchwork, I've never read that before. Thank you, though, for putting it back. Sorry OP. I am not involved, really, with your post, but did click to read. I had not read the info before that Patchwork shared this time around on BYB.

Oh Addie - the dog that was done completely wrong.
I will highlight the main points.

No, they didn't pay a BYB for her but that's because she was obtained for free in a Walmart parking lot when the girlfriend of her owner begged and begged for him to get a puppy together. However, said girlfriend lived in an apartment that did not allow dogs so the boyfriend brought Addie home with him much to the surprise of his two roommates who didn't want to add another dog(especially a tiny one). The other two roommates hated her presence with definitely showed in how they treated her, even though they tried to make up for her owner's lack of care. Speaking of lack of care, he kept Addie uncrated in his room for far too long during the day where she would soil the carpet and also tear it up out of boredom so they started sticking her outside most of the time - something that she did not have the coat for and there was also no protection from the sun or wind outside except for a bush. They "potty trained" by sticking her nose in it but, eventually she developed a UTI that the owner assumed was disobedience and stupidity so he gave up. They all fed a horrible quality food for the longest time and not only was the quality horrible but it was in HUGE chunks that would be easy for a big dog but ridiculously hard to eat for a dog of her size.

I did, eventually, offer the guy a good amount of money for her but he wouldn't accept. He moved out in May and I've not been able to find him on Facebook (I've looked) so I have no idea where she is or how she's doing now.

The biggest shame is that despite all of this she was a super happy dog and she was RIDICULOUSLY smart. Despite her UTI I had her potty trained and telling me when she needed to go out (by going to the back door) in no more than 36 hours.

Yes, there are much worse stories and there are dogs that get it worse but no dog should have to suffer, imo.

ACarrigDobermans · 12-06-2012, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzmar Dobermans

For those who think that the people here should be happy to spend yet more time telling yet another person why they made a bad decision as to who to get a puppy from ... and yadda yadda yadda.......

I and some others like me have been doing this for over 10 years already, and are tired of doing it. There are new people taking our place - thank goodness. While education has to be done one person at a time, it gets discouraging when you just see the same thing time after time. There are success stories - thank goodness, but the failures weigh on me. I don't respond to a lot of threads anymore... don't have the time or desire to get called a meanie yet again.

I feel exactly the same way. This is why I do not post on a lot of threads.

vivienne00 · 12-07-2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdubois64

That's kind of funny because I was the exact opposite. I wanted cropped but Dillon was uncropped because of his heart murmur. Now I prefer uncropped, but my next probably will be cropped because I probably won't have the choice.

All I can say is I was lucky to get a breeder who would leave my pup uncropped and have a pup with a nice high earset that suits natural ears.

TopSkipper · 12-07-2012, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzmar Dobermans

For those who think that the people here should be happy to spend yet more time telling yet another person why they made a bad decision as to who to get a puppy from ... and yadda yadda yadda.......

I and some others like me have been doing this for over 10 years already, and are tired of doing it. There are new people taking our place - thank goodness. While education has to be done one person at a time, it gets discouraging when you just see the same thing time after time. There are success stories - thank goodness, but the failures weigh on me. I don't respond to a lot of threads anymore... don't have the time or desire to get called a meanie yet again.

Has anyone suggested posting a sticky that has some of these same common questions listed with sound responses? Something like a FAQ or NOOBIE sticky thread that people can refer too versus rehashing the info everytime someone new comes around? Maybe you guys have this already and I missed it, but I have read thread after thread about BYB etc and nobody has referred to an existing sticky that I have seen.

The use of NOOBIE sticky threads have been leveraged on other forums to force newcomers to read the information, AND THEN YOU CAN YOUR QUESTION, provided it has NOT already been addressed in the sticky. We got to a point where we had to do something to keep our "veteran contributors / posters" from leaving, because they were fed up with having to answer the same questions day after day.

There are other forums that also have a "library" of documents that users can download or just read........just some food for thought.

Burns · 12-07-2012, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopSkipper

Has anyone suggested posting a sticky that has some of these same common questions listed with sound responses? Something like a FAQ or NOOBIE sticky thread that people can refer too versus rehashing the info everytime someone new comes around? Maybe you guys have this already and I missed it, but I have read thread after thread about BYB etc and nobody has referred to an existing sticky that I have seen.

There are other forums that also have a "library" of documents that users can download or just read........just some food for thought.

We already have stickies and a DT archives (both of which are stickied at the top of this very forum).

But most people don't bother to read stickies, even when they are in front of their face. And most people also don't use the search function or look in the library (archives) to find answers to their questions either. They just post without doing any sort of browsing around.

We spent a lot of time on the stickies and the archives a couple years ago, thinking it would help prevent threads like these, but unfortunately it really made no difference at all.

Shell81 · 12-07-2012, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burns

We already have stickies and a DT archives (both of which are stickied at the top of this very forum).

But most people don't bother to read stickies, even when they are in front of their face. And most people also don't use the search function or look in the library (archives) to find answers to their questions either. They just post without doing any sort of browsing around.

We spent a lot of time on the stickies and the archives a couple years ago, thinking it would help prevent threads like these, but unfortunately it really made no difference at all.

I feel your pain. It is the same on the forum I am mod on. Rarely do people read all the stickies, tutorials, archives. LOTS of hours to painstakingly create them, and people post the same question/topic over and over and over. We sound like broken records telling people to search, and read the stickies. I have come to the realization that it is just the nature of forums (even though it sucks).

TopSkipper · 12-07-2012, 08:28 PM

We literally will post a link to the sticky and say "read this and come back and then ask your question".... It sounds kind of rude but everyone wants this instant satisfaction and information right now, and they won't bother to read the stickies before jumping in and asking the same questions over again....

To me its kind of arrogant to start asking questions without being willing to do ANY work of your own, FIRST.

Just saying... Here's the link to FAQ on back yard breeders, after you have completely read this, and IF the question has STILL not been answered then please ask it.

We would then add that question to the sticky for future reference....

Anyways not to derail things.... just making a suggestion. Larry

Burns · 12-07-2012, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopSkipper

We literally will post a link to the sticky and say "read this and come back and then ask your question".... It sounds kind of rude but everyone wants this instant satisfaction and information right now, and they won't bother to read the stickies before jumping in and asking the same questions over again....

To me its kind of arrogant to start asking questions without being willing to do ANY work of your own, FIRST.

I agree with you. It seems like the excuse is always that their situation is different, which granted some of them are unique, but a lot of questions could simply be answered by using the search tool. I think most people don't understand how to use the search though, even though there's a sticky on that too! lol

Q734 · 12-07-2012, 09:16 PM

I think before joining a box like those user agreements for software would be good

There *has* to be a way, but do see the point that stickies get ignored, maybe by longtime lurkers and the regs who see them as furniture.

What would really be fun would be an application that had to have answers filled out poll-style before being allowed to join. hehe ~8D

Burns · 12-07-2012, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q734

There *has* to be a way, but do see the point that stickies get ignored, maybe by longtime lurkers and the regs who see them as furniture.

Yeah, its just one of those things you just accept on a forum. Every forum I've ever been an admin, mod or just a member, there was always the same issues. Its just the nature of the beast.

DorianRue · 12-09-2012, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzmar Dobermans

As a breeder, I get emails all the time from people who bought an uncropped Doberman puppy and are now floundering around trying to find a vet to crop them. They aren't willing to take the time or pay the money to buy a puppy from a good breeder, but they ARE willing to take our time to find out what to do about finding a good cropper, vet, training facility, boarding facility. Or to question us what to do about potty training, biting, barking..... the list goes on.

Somewhere there is a byber/greeder that is laughing at the fact that they walked away with the price of the puppy and don't provide any support as soon as the people walk out their door..... those of us who don't make any money on our puppies are also supporting those people who cut corners to get a puppy from a byber/greeder.... and if they then get upset when they are called to task for it. Too bad.

Case in point, I spent time on my vacation last week typing out replies on my cell phone to someone asking where to find a cropping vet. Hopefully they listened, but it may have been too late for that puppy as it was already getting to the age where they would probably only stand for a short crop. I'd like to smack the breeder of that puppy upside the head!

Here's a question I've wondered. What if someone wants a natural dobie are they a bad breeder for not doing the ears? My breeder was awesome and she took the price off the dog for me to do my own ear crop because we lived two states away and I can't drive to Oregon twice a wweek to have his ears posted again but, that was my choice. She added the price of the ear crop on to the pups she did the crop on but since I wanted to do it closer to home she took the price of the ear crop off for me and another person who bought in my area.

Julie W · 12-09-2012, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DorianRue

Here's a question I've wondered. What if someone wants a natural dobie are they a bad breeder for not doing the ears?

Not that that would be THE reason they are not a good breeder, but yes, it's likely they are not. With the exception of a very few working line breeders (of which there are none in Oregon) breeders crop their litters themselves. They don't leave it up to the new owners to do it themselves with a different vet.

Your reasoning doesn't make any sense anyway. You don't want the breeder to crop the ears because you can't drive back to Oregon to have them posted, but you are still cropping anyway. So what does the fact that the breeder isn't going to post for you have to do with anything? Most puppies are posted by their new owners, not the breeder. Breeders are more than happy to help out when needed, but it's usually either not needed or the puppy's owners live too far away to make it feasible and they figure it out themselves with help from the breeder.

Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App

**Fitzmar Dobermans** · 12-09-2012, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DorianRue

Here's a question I've wondered. What if someone wants a natural dobie are they a bad breeder for not doing the ears? My breeder was awesome and she took the price off the dog for me to do my own ear crop because we lived two states away and I can't drive to Oregon twice a wweek to have his ears posted again but, that was my choice. She added the price of the ear crop on to the pups she did the crop on but since I wanted to do it closer to home she took the price of the ear crop off for me and another person who bought in my area.

I will say that more and more people want an uncropped puppy, but very few reputable breeders are willing to leave a puppy uncropped for a whole host of reasons. I personally have never left a puppy uncropped, but would consider it for someone that I knew well and totally trusted........ would not consider it for an unknown person for too many reasons to list. I don't personally have a problem with uncropped Dobermans but my personal vision for my puppies IS cropped. For a puppy that is going too far away for me to help with the posting, I generally find another Doberman person in their geographic area that is willing to help post. I would NEVER sell an uncropped puppy to someone who was planning on having their vet do the cropping - there are only a handful of vets in this country that I would trust to do a decent job of it, and a crappy crop would IMHO reflect badly on my breeding program. Cropping is part of my responsibility as the breeder.

StarlaineK9 · 12-09-2012, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DorianRue

Here's a question I've wondered. What if someone wants a natural dobie are they a bad breeder for not doing the ears? My breeder was awesome and she took the price off the dog for me to do my own ear crop because we lived two states away and I can't drive to Oregon twice a wweek to have his ears posted again but, that was my choice. She added the price of the ear crop on to the pups she did the crop on but since I wanted to do it closer to home she took the price of the ear crop off for me and another person who bought in my area.

I would NEVER send an uncropped puppy away with a new owner to do their own ear crop. My dogs are cropped and I want a certain look that reflects on my care, diligence and represents my breeding program.

There are a lot of vets out there that "crop". But most of them have not the first clue of artistry or aesthetics. Just look at the myriad of "how does my dogs ears look" threads. 99.9% of them make me absolutely CRINGE, and they all were all done by a vet!

Dobies 71 · 12-09-2012, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACarrigDobermans

I feel exactly the same way. This is why I do not post on a lot of threads.

And, this is just why many of the real breeders of quality Dobermans have left this forum.

I've watched this forum dwindle to nothing of interest or education sharing etc. as a direct result of such.

I've emailed and notified the owners of this problem and they have yet to care or even respond.

Its their forum and they choose to lose the knowledgable people and keep the "nastys" instead.

Advertising dollars are everything.

Wonder how long this post will last...or maybe I end up doghoused...who cares really, I don't even post over here much anymore as the result of the above.