What would you do? - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums

Breeding and Breeders Know a good Breeder? Are you a Breeder? Please post here and let us know

DobermanTalk.com is the premier Doberman Dog Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-30-2012, 11:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
Alpha
 
pdubois64's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,716
Location: Alberta, Canada
Dogs Name: Daisy (Raisin), Dillon R.I.P.
Dogs Age: Mar 16 2014
Gallery Pics: 50
Visit pdubois64's Gallery
Thanks: 6,720
Thanked 6,923 Times in 1,810 Posts
Images: 50
pdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond repute
What would you do?

Buy another pup from the same lines as a previous dog, who you know had a great temperament and was everything you ever wanted in a Doberman but died young possibly due to DCM? From an E. European breeder (Del Nasi) that does health test but doesn't test as far as cardio goes? I would like a pup out of Zedor Del Nasi, but it would also hinge on who he was bred with at the time:

Untitled Document

Or from a breeder that is in my own country, breeds heavily for health/longevity, but not know what you'll be getting temperament wise?
Not that I think anything would be wrong temperament wise, just no first hand experience.

DCM is in all lines, so my belief is it's all a big crap shoot anyway as far as cardio goes. Do I go with the devil I know?

I have a year to decide. Thanks for any and all comments.
__________________
Zoopsie Daisy vom Dobereich
----------------------------

Dillon:b.2/19/09 d.9/28/12 "The best walks in life are always the briefest"
pdubois64 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Apr 2009
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to pdubois64 For This Useful Post:
Australdi (12-10-2012), Beaumont67 (11-30-2012), Darkevs (11-30-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), MeadowCat (11-30-2012), Sharly (11-30-2012), workingk9s (11-30-2012)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-30-2012, 12:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
Shut Up & Scratch My Butt
 
Sam1491's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,699
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Mabel (dobe)
Titles: -
Dogs Age: 5/01/10
Gallery Pics: 88
Visit Sam1491's Gallery
Thanks: 11,463
Thanked 11,727 Times in 4,148 Posts
Images: 88
Sam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond repute
Go with what feels right....

Your right it's a crap shoot, and one that can end painfully, but only you know what you really want and what will make you the most happy.

As an added option, you could always find a dog here or in another country related to those you like but out of better health testing. I think kansa had a litter out of zedor....Just a thought.

Hugs to you, loosing them is never easy.
__________________

The Red Devil Diva & Her Shamelessly Obedient Human

Sam1491 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jul 2011
The Following User Says Thank You to Sam1491 For This Useful Post:
pdubois64 (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 12:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
MY BEST FRIEND
 
VZ-Doberman's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,700
Location: Delaware
Dogs Name: Briarwood Back To Basics aka Bacchus
Titles: Yes..........89 titles, awards and certificates and is a service dog.
Dogs Age: 6 Years
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 8,024
Thanked 14,014 Times in 4,336 Posts
VZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond repute
I think I'd go with the health and longevity. JMO
VZ-Doberman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2009
The Following 21 Users Say Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Australdi (12-10-2012), Beaumont67 (11-30-2012), Cathy43 (11-30-2012), dapple (11-30-2012), Dobiewankanobi (11-30-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), greenkouki (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), Jenny (11-30-2012), Leliel (11-30-2012), Lori Z (11-30-2012), MeadowCat (11-30-2012), Meldrew79 (12-01-2012), Nynaeve (11-30-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012), Q734 (11-30-2012), RedFawnRising (11-30-2012), vivienne00 (11-30-2012), Whiskey (11-30-2012), Zephyr (12-01-2012), zorianak (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 12:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
Alpha
 
pdubois64's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,716
Location: Alberta, Canada
Dogs Name: Daisy (Raisin), Dillon R.I.P.
Dogs Age: Mar 16 2014
Gallery Pics: 50
Visit pdubois64's Gallery
Thanks: 6,720
Thanked 6,923 Times in 1,810 Posts
Images: 50
pdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond repute
I guess I should have made this thread a poll
__________________
Zoopsie Daisy vom Dobereich
----------------------------

Dillon:b.2/19/09 d.9/28/12 "The best walks in life are always the briefest"
pdubois64 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Apr 2009
The Following User Says Thank You to pdubois64 For This Useful Post:
GrdnDelite (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 12:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
MY BEST FRIEND
 
VZ-Doberman's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,700
Location: Delaware
Dogs Name: Briarwood Back To Basics aka Bacchus
Titles: Yes..........89 titles, awards and certificates and is a service dog.
Dogs Age: 6 Years
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 8,024
Thanked 14,014 Times in 4,336 Posts
VZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdubois64 View Post
I guess I should have made this thread a poll
Don't you love hindsight?
VZ-Doberman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2009
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Adara (11-30-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), Jenny (11-30-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 12:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
Toorc the Dork
 
Sharly's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,012
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Dogs Name: Toorc
Titles: Gentleman In Training
Dogs Age: 1 Year
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Sharly's Gallery
Thanks: 1,887
Thanked 1,336 Times in 512 Posts
Sharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond repute
I would aim for Health and Longevity... is there anything else causing you to second guess with the unknown temperment other than no first hand experience? Have you heard bad things about their dogs?
Sharly is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: May 2009
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sharly For This Useful Post:
pdubois64 (11-30-2012), Q734 (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 12:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
Alpha
 
dobermama's Avatar
 
Posts: 523
Location: WV
Dogs Name: Remington
Dogs Age: 1 yr
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit dobermama's Gallery
Thanks: 425
Thanked 1,365 Times in 410 Posts
Images: 2
dobermama has a reputation beyond reputedobermama has a reputation beyond reputedobermama has a reputation beyond reputedobermama has a reputation beyond reputedobermama has a reputation beyond reputedobermama has a reputation beyond reputedobermama has a reputation beyond reputedobermama has a reputation beyond reputedobermama has a reputation beyond reputedobermama has a reputation beyond reputedobermama has a reputation beyond repute
If I ever decide to buy a Doberman, instead of rescuing- I will purchase from a health/longevity breeder first. I know it is a crapshoot, and that there are no guarantees, but quite honestly I think the temperament is just a matter of correctly picking the right puppy (either yourself, or via a knowledgeable breeder). It can vary so greatly even within the same litter, that honestly it is MORE of a crapshoot than health if you don't know how to assess properly, at least IMHO.

As a example- I got 2 siamese kittens from the same litter. I kept one, my Mom took the other. Both seemed to be equally affectionate, although hers was more outgoing. As they aged hers became aggressive and dangerous. Mine on the other hand was the sweetest, most loveable cat to EVERYONE he met. Was carried around by my toddler niece, adored by the vets, and never even tried to bite or scratch. Same exact breeding, two VERY different personalities...
dobermama is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2012
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to dobermama For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (11-30-2012), dapple (11-30-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012), Q734 (11-30-2012), RedFawnRising (11-30-2012), Sam1491 (11-30-2012), zorianak (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 12:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
Alpha
 
pdubois64's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,716
Location: Alberta, Canada
Dogs Name: Daisy (Raisin), Dillon R.I.P.
Dogs Age: Mar 16 2014
Gallery Pics: 50
Visit pdubois64's Gallery
Thanks: 6,720
Thanked 6,923 Times in 1,810 Posts
Images: 50
pdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharly View Post
I would aim for Health and Longevity... is there anything else causing you to second guess with the unknown temperment other than no first hand experience? Have you heard bad things about their dogs?
No not at all. I've just never met one, but I will be one of these days.

I know a few other dogs from Dillon's lines and they all seem to have very similar temperaments.

I should mention that Zedor has pretty decent longevity in his pedigree as well. Fedor lived to be 9 and Baron Nike to 12.
__________________
Zoopsie Daisy vom Dobereich
----------------------------

Dillon:b.2/19/09 d.9/28/12 "The best walks in life are always the briefest"

Last edited by pdubois64; 11-30-2012 at 12:23 PM..
pdubois64 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Apr 2009
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to pdubois64 For This Useful Post:
GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), Sam1491 (11-30-2012), Sharly (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 12:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
Toorc the Dork
 
Sharly's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,012
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Dogs Name: Toorc
Titles: Gentleman In Training
Dogs Age: 1 Year
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Sharly's Gallery
Thanks: 1,887
Thanked 1,336 Times in 512 Posts
Sharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond reputeSharly has a reputation beyond repute
It's a tough call, especially if you don't know what color the grass is on the other side. But if you haven't heard anything negative about them and you plan on meeting one someday, then I would say take that chance. You may wind up with a puppy that has the same incredible temperment as Dillon and that will live a long happy dobe life
Sharly is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: May 2009
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sharly For This Useful Post:
GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 12:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
Owned by Dobes since 1975
 
Darkevs's Avatar
 
Posts: 28,063
Location: BC, Canada!
Dogs Name: Charlie & Naughty Dottie!
Titles: BDIH & BND
Dogs Age: 4 3/4 & 4 months
Gallery Pics: 46
Visit Darkevs's Gallery
Thanks: 75,834
Thanked 43,788 Times in 17,288 Posts
Images: 46
Darkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond repute
hmmmmmm.

sometimes when you want to say something from your heart..........

pm coming to you.
__________________

We sure miss you Pun'kin.
Darkevs is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2007
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Darkevs For This Useful Post:
GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), LindaH (11-30-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 12:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
Alpha
 
RottenVonSpotten's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,325
Dogs Name: Otto RIP; foster Dane
Titles: Spoiled Rotten Von Spotten, Sir Spotty
Dogs Age: 8/4/98-4/18/11
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit RottenVonSpotten's Gallery
Thanks: 8,071
Thanked 6,251 Times in 1,873 Posts
RottenVonSpotten has a reputation beyond reputeRottenVonSpotten has a reputation beyond reputeRottenVonSpotten has a reputation beyond reputeRottenVonSpotten has a reputation beyond reputeRottenVonSpotten has a reputation beyond reputeRottenVonSpotten has a reputation beyond reputeRottenVonSpotten has a reputation beyond reputeRottenVonSpotten has a reputation beyond reputeRottenVonSpotten has a reputation beyond reputeRottenVonSpotten has a reputation beyond reputeRottenVonSpotten has a reputation beyond repute
I'd personally go with health/longevity. Crap shoots aside, are you comfortable with the possibility of losing another young dog? If not, then I think health/longevity should play a greater role in your decision. Plus, look how many Dobermans are on DT that have amazing temperaments. I think you can find the "right" temperament in any good line.

Last edited by RottenVonSpotten; 11-30-2012 at 12:40 PM..
RottenVonSpotten is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2010
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to RottenVonSpotten For This Useful Post:
Australdi (12-10-2012), Cathy43 (11-30-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), MeadowCat (11-30-2012), Meldrew79 (12-01-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012), Q734 (11-30-2012), RedFawnRising (11-30-2012), Sharly (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 12:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
Alpha
 
Adara's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,386
Location: Sacramento, CA
Dogs Name: Flirt Dobe; Gabby Havoc and Envy - Vizslas
Titles: Flirt, OA, NAJ, NF Gabby Ch JH NA OAJ NF NJP - Havoc, GCH, JH OA OAJ , Envy CH, JH, RN, CGC, TDI
Dogs Age: 7, 11, 5, 1.5
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit Adara's Gallery
Thanks: 18,252
Thanked 24,557 Times in 7,195 Posts
Images: 6
Adara has a reputation beyond reputeAdara has a reputation beyond reputeAdara has a reputation beyond reputeAdara has a reputation beyond reputeAdara has a reputation beyond reputeAdara has a reputation beyond reputeAdara has a reputation beyond reputeAdara has a reputation beyond reputeAdara has a reputation beyond reputeAdara has a reputation beyond reputeAdara has a reputation beyond repute
Do you know for sure there is not longevity in that line? To me longevity is part of health. They are not separate.

And also to me there is cardio and there is CARDIO. It IS everywhere. It’s worse in some areas than others. I know nada about European lines so can only speak in generalities. If the line was relatively clean for cardio and had longevity overall, I would go back for temperament. To me those are the two most important things. Everything else is icing on the cake. I do want it all but those come first to me.

If there is no longevity in the lines, I would not go back.
__________________
Colleen
Flirt, ADAMAS All the Girls Do It, OA, NAJ, NF, CL2-F, CL2-H
Gabby, Ch Gold Run's Token of Rumor, JH, NA, OAJ, NF, NJP, CL2,CL3-H, CL3-F Vizsla
Havoc, BISS GCh HRQ Guess Who's In Trouble, JH, OA, OAJ, CL2-H, CL2-S, CL2-F Vizsla, National AOM winner
Envy, Ch Kizmar's Bailey HotShot of Adara, Vizsla, JH, RN, CGC, TDI National AOM winner
Adara is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: May 2009
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Adara For This Useful Post:
GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), HarvestMoon (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), MeadowCat (11-30-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012), RedFawnRising (11-30-2012), Sam1491 (11-30-2012), Sharly (11-30-2012), thea2003 (11-30-2012), zorianak (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 12:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
Alpha
 
pdubois64's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,716
Location: Alberta, Canada
Dogs Name: Daisy (Raisin), Dillon R.I.P.
Dogs Age: Mar 16 2014
Gallery Pics: 50
Visit pdubois64's Gallery
Thanks: 6,720
Thanked 6,923 Times in 1,810 Posts
Images: 50
pdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adara View Post
Do you know for sure there is not longevity in that line? To me longevity is part of health. They are not separate.
If there is no longevity in the lines, I would not go back.
There is decent longevity up close, I guess my initial post might have made it sound like there wasn't. Sire lived to be 9 (fedor) dam is still alive and will be 8 in march. Baron Nike is one gen back lived to 12. I haven't looked at all the rest yet.
__________________
Zoopsie Daisy vom Dobereich
----------------------------

Dillon:b.2/19/09 d.9/28/12 "The best walks in life are always the briefest"
pdubois64 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Apr 2009
The Following User Says Thank You to pdubois64 For This Useful Post:
GrdnDelite (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 12:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
Shut Up & Scratch My Butt
 
Sam1491's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,699
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Mabel (dobe)
Titles: -
Dogs Age: 5/01/10
Gallery Pics: 88
Visit Sam1491's Gallery
Thanks: 11,463
Thanked 11,727 Times in 4,148 Posts
Images: 88
Sam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond reputeSam1491 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdubois64 View Post
There is decent longevity up close, I guess my initial post might have made it sound like there wasn't. Sire lived to be 9 (fedor) dam is still alive and will be 8 in march. Baron Nike is one gen back lived to 12. I haven't looked at all the rest yet.
Dobermannpedigrees.nl - The world's largest database!

if you click through you can get pretty far back...really far actually, and most have dates of birth and death, as well as inbred percentage and a few other things. No causes listed on most though.
__________________

The Red Devil Diva & Her Shamelessly Obedient Human


Last edited by Sam1491; 11-30-2012 at 12:58 PM..
Sam1491 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jul 2011
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sam1491 For This Useful Post:
GingerGunlock (11-30-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 01:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
Wears Sandwitch Board
 
RedFawnRising's Avatar
 
Posts: 20,955
Dogs Name: Whisper; George; Slick Wilhemina, Nashua
Titles: George-Working Service Dog
Dogs Age: 5 yr, 4 yr, 3 yr, 1yr
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit RedFawnRising's Gallery
Thanks: 66,515
Thanked 71,264 Times in 16,876 Posts
Images: 3
RedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond repute
Click here to find out how RedFawnRising became a supporter
Paul, there will never be another Dillon.

Just like I will never have another Ezra.

Please make sure you're not wishing-hoping-praying the new pup will walk exactly in those same pawsteps.

Most all Dobermans are awesome, even those rescues of unknown lineage. If you have a chance to try for more longevity and better health...I'd be tempted to go for that.

The new puppy will have a different personality--it will be a different relationship with you--and a different experience, a different bond. There will be new and different lessons, and one day you will realize you wouldn't have missed THIS new bond, for the world, even though you still/always miss Dillon like crazy.
__________________

"Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self."
―Cyril Connolly
RedFawnRising is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jun 2008
The Following 34 Users Say Thank You to RedFawnRising For This Useful Post:
Abby (11-30-2012), Adara (11-30-2012), AgileDobe (11-30-2012), AuraDobe (11-30-2012), Australdi (12-10-2012), CactusGirl (11-30-2012), Cathy43 (11-30-2012), ellenm (12-01-2012), EmilyB (11-30-2012), flaminscotch (11-30-2012), GingerGunlock (11-30-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), greenkouki (11-30-2012), HarvestMoon (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), LindaH (11-30-2012), Luvbirds (11-30-2012), MeadowCat (11-30-2012), Nynaeve (11-30-2012), PatchworkRobot (11-30-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012), Q734 (11-30-2012), Rosemary (11-30-2012), RottenVonSpotten (11-30-2012), Sam1491 (11-30-2012), Sharly (11-30-2012), SidneyBlue (12-01-2012), Stampy (11-30-2012), thea2003 (11-30-2012), the_discowhore (11-30-2012), vivienne00 (11-30-2012), Whiskey (11-30-2012), ZeldaRules (11-30-2012), Zephyr (12-01-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 01:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
Back Off
 
Asmit's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,721
Location: Knoxville, TN
Dogs Name: Zeus, Ascomannis Tarzan
Titles: Zeus:CGC TDI BH Argo: BH CGC IPO 1 Kovu: BH
Dogs Age: 5
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Asmit's Gallery
Thanks: 4,130
Thanked 4,403 Times in 1,340 Posts
Asmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdubois64 View Post
Buy another pup from the same lines as a previous dog, who you know had a great temperament and was everything you ever wanted in a Doberman but died young possibly due to DCM? From an E. European breeder (Del Nasi) that does health test but doesn't test as far as cardio goes? I would like a pup out of Zedor Del Nasi, but it would also hinge on who he was bred with at the time:

Untitled Document

Or from a breeder that is in my own country, breeds heavily for health/longevity, but not know what you'll be getting temperament wise?
Not that I think anything would be wrong temperament wise, just no first hand experience.

DCM is in all lines, so my belief is it's all a big crap shoot anyway as far as cardio goes. Do I go with the devil I know?

I have a year to decide. Thanks for any and all comments.
I would definitely go with health and longevity. Outside of temperament issues, you will fall in love with any dog that is yours. Heck if I were to describe my perfect temperament qualities for a doberman I would say the complete opposite of what I have with my two. But I LOVE THEM TO DEATH. People always want to recreate the dogs they loved, but you can love another one just the same.

Why not buy from a European breeder over here? I know Kansa has bred some del nasi dog. And incredible also has some European show lines. Either way I wouldn't hesitate to contact them about health and lines. I've heard that the longevity of those kennels in Europe really depends on the individual dogs involved.
Asmit is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Nov 2011
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Asmit For This Useful Post:
Cathy43 (11-30-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012), Sam1491 (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 01:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
Alpha
 
flaminscotch's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,305
Location: Cottage country, ON,Canada
Dogs Name: Claire-F GSD, Zachary -M Dobe, Garth Dobe RIP, sweet Chaos Dobe RIP
Titles: My babies

Gallery Pics: 4
Visit flaminscotch's Gallery
Thanks: 2,381
Thanked 2,081 Times in 999 Posts
Images: 4
flaminscotch has a reputation beyond reputeflaminscotch has a reputation beyond reputeflaminscotch has a reputation beyond reputeflaminscotch has a reputation beyond reputeflaminscotch has a reputation beyond reputeflaminscotch has a reputation beyond reputeflaminscotch has a reputation beyond reputeflaminscotch has a reputation beyond reputeflaminscotch has a reputation beyond reputeflaminscotch has a reputation beyond reputeflaminscotch has a reputation beyond repute
I amso sad about the loss of Dillon.
It struck me particularly hard.

We have had a male and female from same breeder because we wanted the beauty and attitude, among other things.
We adopted this time, and I did not want another dog like Garth. I couldn't take it. I didn't want to compare them all the time. No dog could live up to my best friend.
Instead we got this goofball. I can see why he was a rescue--no one in there right mind would put up with his energy and shinanigans. Alas, we love him and are teaching him to be a good boy.

You don't really want another Dillon. Remember him for the special boy he was. Give yourself time to heal. Another dog may come along in the meantime that would fill some of the emptiness in your heart.
Female Dobes (especially Red) have a way of wrapping their Dad around their paw in short order.
flaminscotch is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Feb 2012
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to flaminscotch For This Useful Post:
GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), LindaH (11-30-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012), RedFawnRising (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 01:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
denormalized
 
vivienne00's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,456
Location: 45.452538,-123.074104
Dogs Name: Enid, Jill, Lana
Titles: yes
Dogs Age: 7-4-04, 3-16-11, 5-11-12
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit vivienne00's Gallery
Thanks: 14,416
Thanked 12,406 Times in 4,059 Posts
Images: 4
vivienne00 has a reputation beyond reputevivienne00 has a reputation beyond reputevivienne00 has a reputation beyond reputevivienne00 has a reputation beyond reputevivienne00 has a reputation beyond reputevivienne00 has a reputation beyond reputevivienne00 has a reputation beyond reputevivienne00 has a reputation beyond reputevivienne00 has a reputation beyond reputevivienne00 has a reputation beyond reputevivienne00 has a reputation beyond repute
I would be looking for longevity with health BUT temperament is so important. This is the dog you want to live with for 13+ years - you must be sure you get the right temperament - a dog that wants to do what you want and is able to be left alone (if that is needed) and can mix with society and doesn't get scared in thunderstorms. List all the things you need or expect from your new puppy and get him from a healthy line that has the temperament you want.

They can never replace the one before and it is always a different experience but I do know of too many people who got the wrong puppy for their needs and lived thru hell for a decade or more. Just be careful and make sure it is a breeder you can trust and can communicate with effectively.

My life has been in turmoil since I got Enid 8 years ago - I can take nothing for granted. In and of herself she is quite a reliable dog but her effect on others and her reactivity and her poor structure have caused loads of issues - a mismatch between my new goals and the dog I got. I love her and would never give her up but it doesn't stop me from realizing it wasn't the right move.
__________________

the boys (rip): Cato, Emerald's Black Onyx, Emerald's Black Quartz
Owned by the girls: Enid, Jill (kelpie) and Lana.
vivienne00 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Dec 2008
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to vivienne00 For This Useful Post:
Adara (11-30-2012), Australdi (12-10-2012), DreamValley (11-30-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), MeadowCat (11-30-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012), RedFawnRising (11-30-2012), thea2003 (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 02:26 PM   #19 (permalink)
Alpha
 
Kalecho's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,760
Location: PA
Dogs Name: Rally, Echo, Twister, Racyn, Quest, Zippy, Rainy
Titles: AKC GCH CH and CD
Dogs Age: 11mo to 10yrs
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Kalecho's Gallery
Thanks: 2,510
Thanked 3,468 Times in 1,081 Posts
Kalecho has a reputation beyond reputeKalecho has a reputation beyond reputeKalecho has a reputation beyond reputeKalecho has a reputation beyond reputeKalecho has a reputation beyond reputeKalecho has a reputation beyond reputeKalecho has a reputation beyond reputeKalecho has a reputation beyond reputeKalecho has a reputation beyond reputeKalecho has a reputation beyond reputeKalecho has a reputation beyond repute
Go for the health and longevity. Any good breeder who is breeding for that will also be breeding for temperament and conformation too. I"m so sorry about your loss.
__________________
Pat Reinhardt
Shadeko Dobermans
AKC Ch Kaywood's Clear Nite Conquest
AKC GCh Ch Shadeko's When Dreams Come True CD
AKC Ch Shadeko's Twist N Shout
AKC GCh Ch Shadeko's Bringin' On The Heat
Kalecho is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Dec 2006
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Kalecho For This Useful Post:
Australdi (12-10-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), Leliel (11-30-2012), LindaH (11-30-2012), Nynaeve (11-30-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012), Q734 (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 02:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
Vewwy Skebpbbtical
 
LindaH's Avatar
 
Posts: 13,918
Dogs Name: Sunburg's Indian River Park "Parker"
Dogs Age: Born May 24, 2007
Gallery Pics: 25
Visit LindaH's Gallery
Thanks: 20,618
Thanked 19,488 Times in 8,182 Posts
Images: 25
LindaH has a reputation beyond reputeLindaH has a reputation beyond reputeLindaH has a reputation beyond reputeLindaH has a reputation beyond reputeLindaH has a reputation beyond reputeLindaH has a reputation beyond reputeLindaH has a reputation beyond reputeLindaH has a reputation beyond reputeLindaH has a reputation beyond reputeLindaH has a reputation beyond reputeLindaH has a reputation beyond repute
I would also go with health and longevity from a good breeder. You really should get good temperament from a good show or working breeder. I would make sure they have 15 to 20 years showing or working and breeding good dogs.

The strangest thing happens when you are young...not sure of your age, Paul, but I would have a great dog and say, "This is the best dog I have ever had," for it to only be topped by the next, or close to the next, one. This happened to me three times, the last one truly being a "once in a lifetime" dog.

I know I will never have another dog like Blue.....could never, will never happen again.

My life, and most others lives, continually change as one gets older and one will never raise one dog exactly like another. For one, the later dogs get the benefit of the knowlege all the others before taught you. You change locations, aquaintences, close friends, husbands or wives, jobs and all this has an effect. I had step kids when Blue was alive. They brought out so much in him, his protectiveness, his thought process and much more not realized. Blue also claimed little old ladies, and their homes, who lived near him. All of my life circumstances at that time had an effect.

Just saying, as much as you love Dillon and how near perfect he was, don't be surprised if another, better one does happen to show up on down the road. Might take you awhile to realize it and doesn't mean you will love Dillon less. No matter what you do get, you will love them for who they are, too. Just be sure to keep an open mind to all things are possible!!!

Best wishes in your search for your next life partner and may it be a successful journey.
__________________
All dogs deserve a good home

Subscribe to this newsletter first:
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/

How to select a good dog food:
http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/vie...y-dog-food.htm

Dog food information:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

Diet additives and Raw diet information
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/index.html
LindaH is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2006
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to LindaH For This Useful Post:
Cathy43 (11-30-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), HarvestMoon (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), Kalecho (11-30-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012), Q734 (11-30-2012), RedFawnRising (11-30-2012), thea2003 (11-30-2012), vivienne00 (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 03:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
Alpha
 
Luvbirds's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,658
Dogs Name: Monty & Petey RIP my sweet baby
Titles: Heart Healer & WAC CGC
Dogs Age: 3/10/10 & 10/27/06~8/14/11
Gallery Pics: 47
Visit Luvbirds's Gallery
Thanks: 11,730
Thanked 16,399 Times in 4,447 Posts
Images: 47
Luvbirds has a reputation beyond reputeLuvbirds has a reputation beyond reputeLuvbirds has a reputation beyond reputeLuvbirds has a reputation beyond reputeLuvbirds has a reputation beyond reputeLuvbirds has a reputation beyond reputeLuvbirds has a reputation beyond reputeLuvbirds has a reputation beyond reputeLuvbirds has a reputation beyond reputeLuvbirds has a reputation beyond reputeLuvbirds has a reputation beyond repute
Click here to find out how Luvbirds became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
Paul, there will never be another Dillon.

Just like I will never have another Ezra.

Please make sure you're not wishing-hoping-praying the new pup will walk exactly in those same pawsteps.

Most all Dobermans are awesome, even those rescues of unknown lineage. If you have a chance to try for more longevity and better health...I'd be tempted to go for that.

The new puppy will have a different personality--it will be a different relationship with you--and a different experience, a different bond. There will be new and different lessons, and one day you will realize you wouldn't have missed THIS new bond, for the world, even though you still/always miss Dillon like crazy.
and just like I will never have another Petey. You will love your new boy and he will get in your heart...but you must remember you will still miss Dillion for a long time to come if not forever. When they die so young, there is just so much was left undone, they didn't get a full life. We feel they were cheated. I have lost a lot of dogs young, and all my childhood dogs died old, there is a big difference in how I feel about their lives. Before anything else I'd look for health and longevity.
__________________
Luvbirds is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2007
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Luvbirds For This Useful Post:
Australdi (12-10-2012), Cathy43 (11-30-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), MeadowCat (11-30-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012), Q734 (11-30-2012), RedFawnRising (11-30-2012), Zephyr (12-01-2012), zorianak (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 03:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
Alpha
 
pdubois64's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,716
Location: Alberta, Canada
Dogs Name: Daisy (Raisin), Dillon R.I.P.
Dogs Age: Mar 16 2014
Gallery Pics: 50
Visit pdubois64's Gallery
Thanks: 6,720
Thanked 6,923 Times in 1,810 Posts
Images: 50
pdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond reputepdubois64 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbirds View Post
When they die so young, there is just so much was left undone, they didn't get a full life. We feel they were cheated.
Summed up perfectly.
__________________
Zoopsie Daisy vom Dobereich
----------------------------

Dillon:b.2/19/09 d.9/28/12 "The best walks in life are always the briefest"
pdubois64 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Apr 2009
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to pdubois64 For This Useful Post:
Australdi (12-10-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), Luvbirds (11-30-2012), MeadowCat (11-30-2012), RedFawnRising (11-30-2012), thea2003 (11-30-2012), vivienne00 (11-30-2012), zorianak (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 03:19 PM   #23 (permalink)
u mad?
 
PatchworkRobot's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,327
Location: Texas
Dogs Name: Rhapsody's Mystery of the Spanish Chest - "Dreizehn", Gaia's Bijort - "Ruthless"
Titles: UKC CH for Dreizehn, CGC for both, CA for both
Dogs Age: Born December 2010, July 2011
Gallery Pics: 5
Visit PatchworkRobot's Gallery
Thanks: 4,669
Thanked 15,576 Times in 4,512 Posts
Images: 5
PatchworkRobot has a reputation beyond reputePatchworkRobot has a reputation beyond reputePatchworkRobot has a reputation beyond reputePatchworkRobot has a reputation beyond reputePatchworkRobot has a reputation beyond reputePatchworkRobot has a reputation beyond reputePatchworkRobot has a reputation beyond reputePatchworkRobot has a reputation beyond reputePatchworkRobot has a reputation beyond reputePatchworkRobot has a reputation beyond reputePatchworkRobot has a reputation beyond repute
I would so try the new lines.

As it's been said, Dillon was an individual and there won't be another like him. My worry, if this was my situation, would be that going back to the same lines would put the expectation (even if unconsciously) of the new dog to be just like Dillon, which could lead to some major disappointment.

If your only drawback to the new lines is that you've never met a dog from that breeder/those lines than I don't really see a negative. If the breeder is a good reputable breeder than I would expect the dogs to be stable. After having a dog stolen away so young I'd go with the lines with the most longevity.
__________________


No dog is at fault for being born into this world.
PatchworkRobot is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jan 2011
The Following User Says Thank You to PatchworkRobot For This Useful Post:
pdubois64 (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 03:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
Paralibrarian
 
GingerGunlock's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,740
Location: CNY
Dogs Name: Elka
Titles: NTD
Dogs Age: DOB 5-16-09
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit GingerGunlock's Gallery
Thanks: 20,423
Thanked 10,695 Times in 4,471 Posts
Images: 1
GingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond repute
Mostly on topic question: Was a cause of death ever announced for Fedor Del Nasi? I never saw it, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
__________________
GingerGunlock is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jan 2011
The Following User Says Thank You to GingerGunlock For This Useful Post:
pdubois64 (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 03:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
Alpha
 
Kansadobe's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,723
Location: Kansas USA
Dogs Name: Breeder for Nearly 40 Years
Titles: Bred 40+ AKC Champions, Top 20 Conformation and Obedience Contenders, and SCH Titled

Gallery Pics: 15
Visit Kansadobe's Gallery
Thanks: 2,333
Thanked 9,168 Times in 1,349 Posts
Images: 15
Kansadobe has a reputation beyond reputeKansadobe has a reputation beyond reputeKansadobe has a reputation beyond reputeKansadobe has a reputation beyond reputeKansadobe has a reputation beyond reputeKansadobe has a reputation beyond reputeKansadobe has a reputation beyond reputeKansadobe has a reputation beyond reputeKansadobe has a reputation beyond reputeKansadobe has a reputation beyond reputeKansadobe has a reputation beyond repute
I agree with a lot of what others have said. A quality breeder uses the three legged stool concept, Health, Temperament, and Conformation. The stool isn't solid if any of the three are weak.

Good health is fairly self-explanatory. There are no dependable predictors for the worst ailments, but quality breeders have done some research and testing. However, you will usually find that most pedigrees have a mix of long-lived and not so long-lived dogs.

Conformation can be judged against the written standard by exhibition or at least objective evaluation by a knowledgeable Doberman person.

However, what constitutes "Good Temperament" is much more subjective. If you ask 10 different people what makes "Good Temperament" in a Doberman, you are likely to get 6 or 7 different answers. Many people do not even understand what really makes a "Proper Doberman Temperament". Many just want a generic dog temperament that will love everybody. Others want a dog to act like a watch dog, but not actually be a real watch dog. There are many variations.

So, a lot depends on what the character traits were that Dillon possessed that you valued so much and want to replicate?
__________________

Last edited by Kansadobe; 11-30-2012 at 03:41 PM..
Kansadobe is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Apr 2008
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Kansadobe For This Useful Post:
Adara (11-30-2012), Australdi (12-10-2012), Cathy43 (11-30-2012), Darkevs (11-30-2012), GrdnDelite (11-30-2012), hjgrl (12-03-2012), honda123 (11-30-2012), Kalecho (11-30-2012), MeadowCat (11-30-2012), miranadobe (12-02-2012), Okie-dobie (11-30-2012), pdubois64 (11-30-2012), ssgharkness020147 (12-01-2012), vivienne00 (11-30-2012)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:13 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0 Beta 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.
@2005 - 2008 DobermanTalk.com
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com