jcanitz

Is a dobe beautiful? Yes when healthy. Is a dobe loyal? Yes when that loyalty is earned. The third part is what scares me, the trainability. Yes a doberman is easy to train in the sense that they know what you want from them and can pick up on that easily, but they are also stubborn and very determined. Dobermans take a lot of work. Also I don't think that I would want to depend on my dog to save my life or protect me from any real danger.

RedFawnRising

Ash_fable, look up the UDC and look at some breeders who have working Doberman lines, if you want a chance of a little more inherent sense of the work ethic.


There are certainly also show lines that the animals have great protective instincts--for better chance of that, you would look for "titles at both ends" including the TT or WAC. I still wouldn't rule out any well-bred Doberman, regardless, as this is their heritage and a good stable temperament will suffice for what you want.

Try to get to some area shows and trials and go by the Doberman judging, watch, network, find what appeals to you. Make sure you ask anyone you approach if they are about to go into the ring, or if they have time to talk for a minute--folks can get stressy until their job is done for that event, but most will be quite willing and friendly if they're not rushed.

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Asmit

I agree with all of this, except the bolded part. Sorry but that simply not true. If it were, there'd be no such thing as personal protection training. I've met plenty of dobes who treat strangers like goody bags of treats and belly rubs.

Also just because a dog will bark growl and possibly snap does not mean they actually know how to protect you. That's insane to assume that all dobermans would.

To the op- I agree with everything in RFR's post above as well as the fact the the dogs are not property guarders. If you want a dog bred for personal protection and higher level of working aptitude then go to breeders who breed for such, and prove so with TITLES. Sorry but those dogs they breed even the "imports" are show line, and rejects to the breeders (why they sell them to the US). Not bred whatsoever for any working job that is protection related.

Oh and larger dogs are not good personal protection dogs anyways. My boy is huge, but he's also slow clumsy and unathletic. That's what you get when you breed dogs too big.

ajp240

Dobermans have a sense of self preservation that other dogs (i.e. GSDs) do not. Dobermans typically will not endanger themselves or hurt themselves knowingly. They are smarter than that.

A working line Doberman is no piece of cake- mine is more work than I could have ever imagined and I did a TON of research, meeting, and talking to other people. I would not suggest a working dog to someone unless they were actively working them, and I wouldn't call personal/property protection actively working. As a side note- Schutzhund is also not a sport for someone wanting a protection dog in my opinion- it is routine based and not situation based.

Lastly, Dobermans are not property protectors, they are people protectors. An example of a territorial dog that will protect your property is a Mastiff.

And I just want to say it again. A dog is a living, breathing creature with needs and emotions. They aren't an alarm system that you can switch off when it's not convenient. If you want to protect yourself in the country I suggest investing in other ways to do so such as personal protection classes, alarm/security system, firearms, other weaponry, a secure house/property. Good luck!

Matt Vandart

I concur with everything in the above three posts.

I have a particular hatred for people who are breeding large dobermans they are ejits.

I think you may be better off with a half tidy GSD or even a Rotty than a doberman for your needs, they will make a better property guard, unless of course you are also thinking of doing PP training with your dog and taking it with you everywhere.

KevinK

There's nothing wrong with wanting a Doberman from strong working lines, but you have to keep in mind these are not always calm, "regular" kinda "pet" dogs so to speak. Many of them NEED to be very active, very mentally stimulated, challenged physically and mentally, learning new things, or you will have big problems. Many of these dogs are the kinds of dogs that most would consider uncontrollable, out of control monsters. Just something to keep in mind, especially if you are a first time dobe owner. Your average dog owner would not be able to handle real working dogs, and even very skilled, experienced and well versed long time trainers can have their hands full with some of these dogs. I would strongly suggest looking into all of this before deciding which route to go, depending on your experience you may want to start with less drivey lines to get your feet wet first.

Asmit

Just wanted to add that although I do not think all dobermans are capable of actually protecting you, I also do not think you need a dog who is capable.

People make it work, but a high drive working doberman like the others have mentioned, is not easy. For your needs the doberman's sheer appearance is enough.

steph&leala

Be cautious of what your motives are with buying any dog. IMO the people who end up with the 'problem' dogs are the ones who want a 'scary' dog or something to intimidate people with. Trust me, if your dobe gets into protection mode it is scary. And just buying a dobe and hoping it ends up protecting you is not wise. It takes LOTS of training and a very strong bond. And as many people have said, a dobe will go crazy left to guard a property all day and night. They need cuddles and couch time! I hope you find a dog that you can love and cherish!

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Steph and Leala.
Calgary, Alberta

Whiskey

I'll second what most everyone else has said in that a working doberman is a lot for an owner unfamiliar with the breed that does not have a job for them to do. That being said, however, that may not be what you need.

A well bred, stable doberman will almost always be an excellent alert system and deterrent for those who wish to cause you harm. In some cases they may actively try and protect you as my dog did with me once during a home invasion. I will tell you I've never wanted my dog to be LESS protective then I did that day as I feared for his safety. I'll let him be the visual deterrrent... my Mossberg 590 will be the actual deterrent

I really hope you find the dog you're looking for... just remember that in the end, breeders like Desert Legends are salesmen with a product to sell. They will tell you exactly what you want to hear. They may offer one puppy as a "show quality" to a new unsuspecting buyer and if that fails offer it to the next person who comes along as a "high drive working prospect" and maybe even the next person a "laid back family pet"

Just look for the red flags and keep the breeds health problems in mind when you're looking at breeders. Except nothing less then a breeder doing 100% of what they can to improve the HEALTH and LONGEVITY of the breed along with everything else.

-ciao!

AlyssaN

Okay, I want to clarify what I feel protection is. I didn't get a doberman thinking that "thank god that if someone comes and mugs me, he'll bite their butts and they'll run away." However, I was thinking that the likelihood of me being mugged will be reduced if people think they will get bit in the butt.

Not that I really think that I would get mugged. I wouldn't even want Murphy to try to protect me, I'd want him to run and get help like Lassie would. Unrealistic? Probably.

Realistically, the doberman is an intimidating breed. Beautiful, yet intimidating. It's not even just the look. They're notorious for being smart and incredibly loyal. They're more of a proactive measure than a reactive measure.

Ash_fable

Hmm.... I'm not sure I'm making myself very clear with the kind of situation I'm in, but here goes:

I'll have a gun as well as a security system. But I would certainly feel more safe with a doberman on top of that. I wouldn't depend on it to save my life--without the proper training that's just naive to expect. What I would like though is an intimidating-looking dog that will be a good deterrent that will look to me for commands. That's one of the main things I want out of a doberman.

Of course, it'll take training and work to get there. I don't just expect it to do those things just because it's a doberman. It still needs training regardless of what's in its blood.

So, for working dogs... What sorts of work do dobermans do if they're not involved in police work?

Thanks for all the responses.

falnfenix

research Schutzhund...and join a club or find a local trainer. don't try to train the dog for this sport by yourself.

Rosemary

To Doberman people, I'd say that "working" dogs are dog that are trained in bite sports. Bite sport include IPO, French or Mondio Ring, or PSA. "Working-line" dogs are dogs that are bred to be used in bite sports. While you might see the odd Dobe doing actual police work, they are not very common.

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Brandy&Melanie

Dobermans work best if they have a kind of a role, or a job in your life. Dobermans excel in protection training as well as obedience, agility, therapy, service, ect.)

Just having a Doberman could potentially be enough to scare someone away, with their "reputation" and all. Dobermans are naturally protective, but a dog should never be aggressive or vicious. Dobermans are generally very intelligent, but this does not mean that they are an easy dog to own!

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Doberman Club of Canada:

http://www.dpcc.ca/

Read this before you get your pup:

http://www.dobermantalk.com/puppy-co...-your-pup.html

ajp240

Sorry, I never said there was anything wrong with working line Dobermans. I have one, love her, and would never get another "type" of Doberman.

I think people have the wrong perception of Schutzhund. It is not simply a protection sport! In fact, like I said earlier, it is a ROUTINE BASED, not situation based. There is PSA which is situation based. If you walk into a Schutzhund club and simply want to learn protection, most clubs will not want to work with that. It requires a ton of time. Tracking and obedience daily. Many people get up before/at sunrise 4am-6am to go do tracking. Not to mention the cost- Schutzhund club dues, equipment, and outdoor performance clothing (especially for those in cold climates, we train year round, rain or snow.) That surely is not for everyone!

I'm not trying to de-rail the thread, but I have concerns about the actual intention of some peoples' purchases that affect a life, not targeting the OP, but in general with these types of dogs...which very well could end up in rescue.

At the end of the day, do your research. Please look up threads about the mentioned breeder. They are not producing the type of dog you would be looking for. You will want a dog with health tested parents, proven in some line- show or work.

As for a "job" for a working dog, it does't have to be bite work. It could be obedience, rally, agility, flyball, dock diving, search and rescue, HRD, bomb detection, narcotics detection etc...

KevinK

I think you are confused, i never said you did...

ajp240

Yes, sorry...tired.

dobedream

THIS is what I meant by a Dobe protecting naturally, but ya'll said it better than I did

Brianne29

PatchworkRobot, I think I love you.

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Rosamburg

I believe that this is the mantra many Doberman people adhere to when the real issue is the overwhelming tendency for the breed to be lacking in nerve. I will say it again, while it is true that a dog in fear is thinking of its own self preservation first, it is not because they are smarter, it comes down to an issue of nerve. Most Doberman's are lacking in nerve.

As far as GSD's, even there, only a trained working line dog who also happens to have high nerve is likely to stand its ground. Most GSD show dogs, GSD byb dogs, or thin nerve working dogs are going to run away just as quick as the average Doberman (or Malinois) in response to a DIRECT threat.

Any Schutzhund training regime that trains primarily to the routine is crap training. On the other hand how many real human threats are going to be making tons of prey movements, clattering sticks, yelling etc. A decent dog does not view this as a threat, it views it as prey attraction.

Bite sport training, if done effectively and with proper forethought can lay the foundation for an effective personal protection dog. It would only lay the groundwork however. Excellent protection training works on maintaining balance in drive of the dog. I agree that probably most Schutzhund training regimens as well as most Ringsports training (at least from what I can see) are training almost exclusively in prey, though not all do. There are a few training helpers out there that try to bring out the real deal in training. Good dogs who are trained in this type of training are going to exhibit much more power in the work. A lot also comes down to the dog. When we have a very high nerve, prey oriented dog, we will do everything possible to make it about the man not the sleeve. This is achieved through working the dog in conflict or using a bite suit. Dogs that are balanced in drive or going to see a balance in the work. A dog that is always in conflict or defense oriented is going to be worked primarily in prey.

Any honest half-knowlegeable person who trains in any of the bite sports will tell you that real personal protection training is a whole different mode of training that the dog and handler will likely have to train in to have a good chance at reacting properly to a real life scenario.

In addition if you want to get financially fleeced or being exposed to training that is detrimental to the dog then pick from all of the personal protection trainers, and probably 80% of them will help you out there.

Like anything else on the internet finding the right dog, the right training scenario, etc takes sifting through a ton of BS. The best thing is to visit training clubs, whether that is Schutzund, Ring, or whatever. Talking to people there is where you will get the best information regarding where to buy dogs or puppies and finding an ethical personal protection trainer, if there even is such a thing in your locality.

As far as the other posts. Just because a dog alerts to a threat does not mean they are "a natural protector" and will actually protect you. The belief that the Doberman is a natural protector is a myth. Most will run from any real threat.

Matt Vandart

Holy ****, you have summed up my thoughts about everything I have posted about this subject ever, but in far better English than I can do for such a long and well constructed post!

The OP has a gun and security system all they need is an alert dog, that they can leave alone, a half tidy GSD or Rotty would be better than a whining, frustrated, anxious pet quality doberman or a bored basket case destructive dominant tornado with teeth working line dobe.
GSD's don't mind the cold/rain as much either.

IMO the only breed of dog I have come across that has any kind of consistency of the correct temperament for PP is EBT's more specifically Male EBT's
Statistically your more likely to find the correct temperament in a mutt than in any one specific breed.
Also a PP dog should be with you, at all times not left in a yard, it's not trained to protect the yard.

Just my opinion feel free to rip it.

RedFawnRising

Way too generous. More like 90+%.

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dobiefan

I have a Dobie from Desert Legend, I love my Diesel to death, he is 3 now, and very healthy, but is affected with vWD. When I called and told Suzan the breeder at Desert Legend, she said it was not a big deal. Sure it isn't when you are trying to sell as many pups as you can without regard to health. I wouldn't trade him for anything. Yes, he's oversized, 31", 106 pounds and so lovable. But stay away from Desert Legend. They breed for money more than health!


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AlyssaN

I'm glad to see that you learned your lesson and are trying to teach others. I can't believe that a breeder would say that being vWD affected is no big deal. It's sad.

happy

Are you saying all imports are rejects? What is the difference if you go over there and pick a pup or go to Tenn., to a breeder and picking a pup? Yes they have puppymills over there also and most know who they are and stay away. I am speaking from experience not just BS. Also if you buy a pup from the west coast are you going to drive or fly over to pick up that pup, or are you trusting a USA breeder that maybe you have never meet, only deal with thru emails or phone, or just plain word of mouth, I have read on here many times who is a good breeder and who is not and then somewhere down the road, it's post that you never meet, spoke, only know what others have said, so please don't make comments about the folks overseas unless you know and have the facts from personal experience, not hearsay, there are some who believe and take what they read as gospel. Sorry for the rant.