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Old 11-15-2012, 11:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Best working line breeders?

So I got my last doberman from trinity bay Aussies or aka lone star dobermans. I wasn't to worried about where I was getting the pup from because I really wanted a working dog and she gave me a deal. Me and the breeder are close I just don't agree on how she runs her breedings. Yea my puppy works and has grip of a champ but I just need to know for a better future reference on who to go to next.


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Old 11-15-2012, 11:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I've (briefly) emailed back and forth with Lone StarDobermans/Trinity Bay Aussies , and was not impressed. This is the breeders list for the United Doberman Club. http://www.uniteddobermanclub.com/di...edDirJul12.pdf If I was looking for a working line dog, I'd start by contacting one of these breeders.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yea she try's to impress with how much she said she pays for her dogs


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Old 11-15-2012, 11:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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How much she paid for her dogs and who had purchased puppies from her were the least of it. For me, it was the lack of information about bloodlines, health testing, and whether of not she breeds Z-factored dogs. She never did give me a straight answer to any of those questions.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:12 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Yea she try's to impress with how much she said she pays for her dogs
Well established breeders generally don't pay much for a dog, they get them from people who know that they (the) breeder will do as much as they can to succeed with the dog they receive, you can't put a monatary value on that.
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I don't see health testing on any of these dogs. ANother concern is that toplines, fronts, and structure matters whether working or showing or even for pets. Haven't seen too many delutes that are defined as Euro's either.

I'd look at the links provided above.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
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She gets dogs from Europe and brags about last time I checked she had gotten like 5 new females (5000) at the minium she tells me and she only had 1 stud! As soon as she gets them she breeds them. She does have a money back guarantee and I do get full registration on my pup when I breed her and give her the 2nd pick of the litter. She just focuses on drive. Really when I was there I wasn't to worried and wasn't thinking about it. I'm straight forward teen my parents were making me sell a dog to get a new one. And I was ready for a pup so I didn't even bother searching once I found someone close. And I regret it now.


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Old 11-16-2012, 10:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
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She gets dogs from Europe and brags about last time I checked she had gotten like 5 new females (5000) at the minium she tells me and she only had 1 stud! As soon as she gets them she breeds them. She does have a money back guarantee and I do get full registration on my pup when I breed her and give her the 2nd pick of the litter. She just focuses on drive. Really when I was there I wasn't to worried and wasn't thinking about it. I'm straight forward teen my parents were making me sell a dog to get a new one. And I was ready for a pup so I didn't even bother searching once I found someone close. And I regret it now.


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Just because the dog came from Europe doesn't mean it can work, at all.

Short story. The boy I'm currently training was an import from Czech. At 8 months old he was running to the blind for a bark and hold, doing a courage test and the escape for IPO 1. There are videos proving it. However, previous to seeing these videos, my decoy/trainer considered him pretty much worthless and we have been rebuilding him from the basics up (he is now 2. Years old) they 100% were pattern training him to make him seem like he was much further along than he really was. He of course was also advertised as being a hard dog. If he ever becomes "hard" whatsoever, he'll likely be atleast 4 years old and pressured hard. Even now, there isn't a single mature aspect about him. Most American people seeing those videos however would think wow now that's an impressive working dog. Hes no where near that.

Point being, people in Europe can tell some stupid American all day long that they have some super impressive serious working dog when in reality, they're not.

This breeder is not even breeding working lines or titling dogs in IPO, so I'm really not sure why someone would consider her a working breeder.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:33 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Also "best working breeder" is extremely subjective and anyone telling you one single person is the best likely has biased reasons for such. What I think of as the best qualities for a working dog are likely different than what others may think are the best qualities for a working dog to have. It's really best to look at any and all working breeders and see the dogs for yourself to determine what type of "working dog" you really want.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:11 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Exactly knowing what I know now I wish I would have been patient


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Old 11-16-2012, 11:20 AM   #11 (permalink)
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And I have been in out of the vet from the time I got her. I know the owner to one her litter mate and they didn't really have problems with There's but it's just why is my pup in healthy


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Old 11-16-2012, 11:40 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Love your dog and find a sport the dog does well and enjoy it.

I will add that from the looks of the pictures of some of these dogs, I would have your dog fixed and there would be no breeding. Sometimes that is just the best thing to do.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Love your dog and find a sport the dog does well and enjoy it.

.
Or love your dog and find another home that is more suited to it. Then do what you should have done in the first place and do a lot of research before making a more suitable selection to allow you to do what you enjoy. Excuse me for having a working person mentality, but forcing a dog to do what it does not want to do is abuse. Being responsible in re-homing is not.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:03 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Their puppies are kennel raised. I know this because I ran into a girl who is supposedly a trainer for their dogs. She said they all live in kennels and they don't have time to work their dogs. I saw a 5 month old pup from them in person and it looked horrible compared to when mine was 5 months old. Dull, crappy coat, long nails, and pressure sores from living on concrete. Ugly conformation too. I wouldn't touch this breeder with a 10 ft pole.

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Old 11-16-2012, 03:29 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I'm not a person to back out, she has all things for a working dog thank God! But if I do breed her she will have at least a title or more and I'm training her for French ring not ipo or psa which is hard to come by. My trainer loves her grip and she is very smart. She is now my profile pic.


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Old 11-16-2012, 05:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Well established breeders generally don't pay much for a dog, they get them from people who know that they (the) breeder will do as much as they can to succeed with the dog they receive, you can't put a monatary value on that.
I hadn't realized that established breeders generally don't pay much for a dog. Is that everyone's experience?
Kate
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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She gets dogs from Europe and brags about last time I checked she had gotten like 5 new females (5000) at the minium she tells me and she only had 1 stud! As soon as she gets them she breeds them. She does have a money back guarantee and I do get full registration on my pup when I breed her and give her the 2nd pick of the litter. She just focuses on drive. Really when I was there I wasn't to worried and wasn't thinking about it. I'm straight forward teen my parents were making me sell a dog to get a new one. And I was ready for a pup so I didn't even bother searching once I found someone close. And I regret it now.


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(my bold) Just to clarify, you are a teenager & your parents made you sell a dog before you got a new one. You are going to breed the new dog that you regret getting. You are training her for French ring not ipo or psa which is hard to come by.

Is this a hobby or will it be a business for you? I'm thinking that it would be awesome if you could find a reputable breeder to mentor you.
Kate
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I hadn't realized that established breeders generally don't pay much for a dog. Is that everyone's experience?
Kate
In my experience people that are established in the dog world don't pay as much for puppies as pet owners, that includes breeders, agility competitors etc.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The only thing that bugs me is who I gave my money to and that makes me support them that's why I regret it. I don't support her at all. Before I breed my female she will be at least 2 years of age and she must must have a title and must be cleared of all the problems if so she is good if not i will spay her. I really want to be a dog trainer. That's what I'm focusing on and perfecting the dobe I have been in love with them all my life finally got my first one 3 years ago then was given a 2 one a few months later. I wanted to do sport work and got them tested. They weren't made for it but a working dog was something that I have always wanted and so my parents said bring us As and Bs and sell one dog and you can get one. I sold my 1st Dillinger to a loving family that lost there dobe to cancer. And he is now spoiled than ever. And I have a fawn Bacardi who is absolutely stunning! And my working pup Atilla The Hun.


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Old 11-16-2012, 06:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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If the breeder is someone you would not support in any way, then breeding one of their dogs is a text book definition of supporting said breeder.


I am in regular contact with a breeder who has a pretty bad reputation on here. Super Dobermans. They had a male from Kimbertal that they used to breed. Anyone in the know knows that Ktal is a kennel that should definitely not be supported or perpetuated. Since having many productive conversations with SD and becoming friends with them. They have greatly improved their breeding practices/policies, started volunteering/fostering for the Dobe rescue I'm with, AND they neutered and sold their Kimbertal male to a good home so he can't be used for breeding anymore and they will not ever be associated with the Ktal lines/kennel. That is an example of someone who cares about the welfare of the breed and has seen the light and would never support a bad breeder/kennel since they know better, no matter how good the dog is.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:38 PM   #21 (permalink)
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If the breeder is someone you would not support in any way, then breeding one of their dogs is a text book definition of supporting said breeder.
^^^This!!!^^^

By breeding a dog, you are implying that you approve of and support its bloodlines and its breeder.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Makes since to me when the time comes I will check her genetics as far as I can. And make sure there is no z factor. I haven't really looked into all of the pedigree crap tbh it's really confusing and over whelming


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Old 11-16-2012, 07:21 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Z-factor is the easiest thing to check. Look at her her AKC number (or her sire's and dams' numbers if you haven't registered her yet). If it starts with WZ, she is Z-factored, and may carry the albino gene.

ETA: When I asked about Z-factored dogs, and specifically stated that I did NOT want a Z-factored dog, she never said that she didn't breed them, just that it "wouldn't be a probelm as long as I didn't breed it to another Z-factored dog".
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:23 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC Dobe View Post
Makes since to me when the time comes I will check her genetics as far as I can. And make sure there is no z factor. I haven't really looked into all of the pedigree crap tbh it's really confusing and over whelming


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Pedigree crap? No ethical breeder would want to touch your breeding dog if you are not well educated and knowledgeable in this area...the entire point of breeding dogs..breeding dogs the right and correct way is to study pedigree, genetics, temperament history and ensure that only the best possible matches are breeding and passing on their genes. Please do not go about breeding the backwards way. You have found DT..one of the best doberman resources out there online. You can learn from good breeders on this forum about the right way to breed for people to take you seriously and consider you reputable in the Doberman world. It would be wise to start attending conformation shows and getting in contact with some of the local good breeders to help mentor you. Breeding dogs responsibly IS overwhelming and a ton of work. This is why good breeders devote their life to it and put a lot of money and dedication into their program.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:25 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC Dobe View Post
Makes since to me when the time comes I will check her genetics as far as I can. And make sure there is no z factor. I haven't really looked into all of the pedigree crap tbh it's really confusing and over whelming


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Then please don't breed your dog. I don't really "look into" all that medical stuff, as I find it confusing and overwhelming. Therefore, I am not a doctor.
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