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Old 11-07-2012, 01:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Altobello

Do they not take their dogs back? This is on a FB group I am on.

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Johnny ****

Adoptable Doberman:
Lilo is a one-year old European Doberman. She was from the famous Altobello Kennel. She is very active and great with children. Please forward to potential adopters.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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With as many dogs as they produce I would think it would be hard to take their dogs back.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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One can dream......
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Also, when one is shipping puppies to countries all over the world, the simple fact is that even if you do take your puppies back the owners generally won't go through the expense and inconvenience to send it back if they no longer want it or can't keep it.

That's why a number of breeders won't sell out of the country or so far away that they couldn't go get the dog if they absolutely had to.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Are thier lines decent? Sorry I am sure thats been answered a ton of times.... First time I have seen one in need of a home locally.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I think you should email or call their kennel with this information so we can go right to the source and see how they react. I've done that before when I saw a GSD for sale on Craigslist that is from a glorified mass producing GSD kennel here that ill-informed and just plain stupid people regard as good quality.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Are thier lines decent? Sorry I am sure thats been answered a ton of times.... First time I have seen one in need of a home locally.
There are oh so many ways of defining decent... Health? Longevity? Working ability? Temperament? Conformation? Define what you mean by that haha even those categories have huge differences in what determines 'good' depending on the usage and inquiring parties
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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ZeldaRules - e-mail sent... Will keep you posted...

Asmit - I guess, are they better than Kimbermill? I will look at their site, sorry I was at work and couldn't really investigate, I have read the threads but can't seem to find the info in my head.... Regardless if they are contributing to the overpopulation problem I have no use for them. I also asked as a previous adopter has a dog that traces back to their lines which means a local breeder has dogs from them (I don't know where she got her dog, she's a great owner so won't berate her).
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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ZeldaRules - e-mail sent... Will keep you posted...

Asmit - I guess, are they better than Kimbermill? I will look at their site, sorry I was at work and couldn't really investigate, I have read the threads but can't seem to find the info in my head.... Regardless if they are contributing to the overpopulation problem I have no use for them. I also asked as a previous adopter has a dog that traces back to their lines which means a local breeder has dogs from them (I don't know where she got her dog, she's a great owner so won't berate her).
Oh so you're asking from more of an ethics stand point? Then yes, they do produce dogs out the wazoo. Of course they have many people to care for the dogs, but they still produce way too many dogs for most people to want anywhere near them. They also seem to sell dogs to anyone in the US that has a certain amount of cash.

As far as the lines, health, temperament and so on is concerned, it really depends on the dog and the dog's pedigree. Some dogs bear the altobello name but really aren't 'altobello' dogs. As far as having a European show line dog, that is what you get.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
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It seems like the vast majority of Euro greeders have Altobello dogs - Ktal included. For that reason, I question how much they care where their dogs end up and whether or not they are being used for breeding. I like their dogs' conformations, but would never support them for ethical reasons. If I came upon an Altobello dog in rescue, I would consider adopting him/her.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:58 AM   #11 (permalink)
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It seems like the vast majority of Euro greeders have Altobello dogs - Ktal included. For that reason, I question how much they care where their dogs end up and whether or not they are being used for breeding. I like their dogs' conformations, but would never support them for ethical reasons. If I came upon an Altobello dog in rescue, I would consider adopting him/her.
I was with ya, until you said you "like their dogs' conformation."

I'd be careful generalizing, just sayin'.

Seen this one? I could probably come up with other examples, easily

Altobello Dobermann Kennel - CH Dankan di Altobello
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Also, when one is shipping puppies to countries all over the world, the simple fact is that even if you do take your puppies back the owners generally won't go through the expense and inconvenience to send it back if they no longer want it or can't keep it.

That's why a number of breeders won't sell out of the country or so far away that they couldn't go get the dog if they absolutely had to.
great point!

i think the responses on this thread are spot on. they produce too many dogs and are willing to ship all over the world to anyone who is willing to pay them. it's probably impossible to keep track of all of their dogs; how they're doing, where they went, what they're being used for. and for an owner to go through the trouble of having one shipped across the world, just think about how difficult it is to ship back a full-grown dog, assuming it came to the owner as a much smaller puppy (smaller crate, lower shipping costs, etc.).

i feel like some people seek out dogs from other countries to reduce the chance of the breeder knowing what the new owner is doing with the dog. a lot of bybs will purchase a dog from another country so they can start their own 'breeding program' since it is difficult for the breeder to enforce or control the new owners via phone or email from 10,000 miles away.

every reputable breeder i know accepts their dogs back under any circumstance. they insist (and it's usually written in a contract) that if the owner can no longer take care of their dog, that it must be returned to the breeder. i believe some breeders prefer having their dogs placed within a reasonable distance so contact and assistance throughout the dog's life is achievable.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:35 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I was with ya, until you said you "like their dogs' conformation."

I'd be careful generalizing, just sayin'.

Seen this one? I could probably come up with other examples, easily

Altobello Dobermann Kennel - CH Dankan di Altobello
He's still better than Elka

(plus he's standing weird in both the stacked ones. What is that hind leg doing?)
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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He's still better than Elka

(plus he's standing weird in both the stacked ones. What is that hind leg doing?)
Well, girlie, he's better than Whip, too, but somehow I don't think marginally better than a spayed rescue dog should be criterion for passing on genes

I've seen other pics of him and don't like him any better in those.

Kimbertal used to have a couple Altobello dogs and they were equally unappealing.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Well, girlie, he's better than Whip, too, but somehow I don't think marginally better than a spayed rescue dog should be criterion for passing on genes

I've seen other pics of him and don't like him any better in those.

Kimbertal used to have a couple Altobello dogs and they were equally unappealing.
In light of this thread, I actually checked Elka's pedigree to see if there was any Altobello in the woodpile, as there's certainly Kimbertal. Not this time 'round.
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I was with ya, until you said you "like their dogs' conformation."

I'd be careful generalizing, just sayin'.

Seen this one? I could probably come up with other examples, easily

Altobello Dobermann Kennel - CH Dankan di Altobello
Clarification - I like Maxim, Icarus, and some others I've seen. I prefer the Euro look though

Making a quick conservative, educated guess here, but I'd say there are close to a thousand Altobello dogs currently roaming the earth...there are bound to be some fugly ones. In the same breath, there are bound to be some really nice ones too...just not owned by any of the Euro greeders here (good breeders, yes, but not greeders).
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:28 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I was with ya, until you said you "like their dogs' conformation."

I'd be careful generalizing, just sayin'.

Seen this one? I could probably come up with other examples, easily

Altobello Dobermann Kennel - CH Dankan di Altobello
Could someone please elaborate on what is conformationally wrong with this dog for me please?

I think his front end may be a bit straight, is that correct?
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:46 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Could someone please elaborate on what is conformationally wrong with this dog for me please?

I think his front end may be a bit straight, is that correct?
I'll be the first to admit that I'm no expert, but what I see is a leggy dog with a straight front, no forechest, and an awkward connection of his neck to his shoulders. It also looks like he has a low tailset.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:25 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The thing I would be concerned with when adopting an Altobello dog is health, but that is something I would be concerned about when adopting any dobe. It shouldn't be a concern from a kennel like this that has such a large influence on the European show doberman, but it definitely is.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quick update, I did e-mail them and I did hear back, they asked me what kind of dog I was keen to buy.... I sent a response clarifying what I was asking and have been completely ignored, I am sure I am not the first person to ask them if they take dogs of their breeding back and won't be the last....

The dog that was purchased and is now in need of a home has until Feb, after that I have no idea what they will do alas I am sure someone will take her. UG
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:29 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I also agree with the no front, I also see a straighter shoulder and definitely, wrong rear end angulation. The far reaching stack does nothing for this dog. Em has Alto Bello behind her and she is too straight in her shoulder, no front, rear assembly is not as bad but still not the angulation that should be there. I for one don't know for sure if I could spot this in a young puppy. I had thot about agility down the road but I am not sure her shoulders could handle much of this because of the straightness of the angle. The perfect dog has not been born yet, but again you should buy the "pieces" that mean the most to you.
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:20 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I was reading this:
How The Standard Works

and it was no help at all in terms of the forechest, what is the big chicken chest for anyway?
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:28 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I also agree with the no front, I also see a straighter shoulder and definitely, wrong rear end angulation. The far reaching stack does nothing for this dog. Em has Alto Bello behind her and she is too straight in her shoulder, no front, rear assembly is not as bad but still not the angulation that should be there. I for one don't know for sure if I could spot this in a young puppy. I had thot about agility down the road but I am not sure her shoulders could handle much of this because of the straightness of the angle. The perfect dog has not been born yet, but again you should buy the "pieces" that mean the most to you.
This seems to be the most important thing to take from this. (despite the fact that this dog is built horribly even to the uneducated eye). Looking at old pictures of dobermans, it seems most all of them had a very straight front and little to no fore chest. Back then, this did not seem to matter. But then again, way back when, there weren't dobermanns doing agility

I'm not a conformation person, but I could certainly see why the straight front would knock agility out of the running. Would be quite a jarring impact.
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:15 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I also agree with the no front, I also see a straighter shoulder and definitely, wrong rear end angulation. The far reaching stack does nothing for this dog. Em has Alto Bello behind her and she is too straight in her shoulder, no front, rear assembly is not as bad but still not the angulation that should be there. I for one don't know for sure if I could spot this in a young puppy. I had thot about agility down the road but I am not sure her shoulders could handle much of this because of the straightness of the angle. The perfect dog has not been born yet, but again you should buy the "pieces" that mean the most to you.
To that part I bolded--I'd say instead you should buy the most balanced dog possible.

I'd rather have merely decent structure throughout, rather than a spectacular front and mediocre rear. Or an awesome neck set and fabulous rear with a crappy front and shoulder assembly.

Some of this may go back to my horse background, but my eye always goes to the animal that looks like it was put together all by one elf, with an eye to symmetry, function, and balance, rather than one who went down the assembly line of elves and got various parts from various models, all stuck together.

It should go without saying (but apparently it's needed) that you don't want a balance of every conformation flaw known to man
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:29 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quick update, I did e-mail them and I did hear back, they asked me what kind of dog I was keen to buy.... I sent a response clarifying what I was asking and have been completely ignored, I am sure I am not the first person to ask them if they take dogs of their breeding back and won't be the last....

The dog that was purchased and is now in need of a home has until Feb, after that I have no idea what they will do alas I am sure someone will take her. UG
So she is available for adoption currently? What's she like?

Thanks for emailing them. I hope you do eventually get a response back from them even if it isn't an offer of financial assistance or taking the dog back.
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