Cool, all awesome posts! Thanks.
Please bear in mind this is just a thought at the moment, its not set in stone, many factors will play a part in whether this happens.
I think there may be a confusion here with the term 'Working Dogs' I am not talking about working sports which no offence I would refer to as sport dogs.
It's great and all, been thinking of doing it myself but a sports dog wont necessarily be good service or protection dogs IMO. Don't really care if anyone takes offence at this, my family have been training protection dogs for generations so I am a bit biased I spose. Not just dobermans, there are many types of dogs that are great at protection and security, it's down to the individual dog not breed. The criteria for choosing whether a dog will be trained includes temperament (many facets of), physical capability, drive, willingness to do the work (which I consider 2 different things) and a good bit of sixth sense, something you can't quite put your finger on but you just know.
I also think maybe there is some confusion as to what I actually want to do.
For the vast majority of Doberman owners their dogs are not going to be show or title chasers they want a Doberman that is a good family pet and a home protector one which you can take for walks, wont be all growling at other dogs and people and giving Dobermans a bad name.
I won't be all shouting 'my dogs are from working lines huzzah! look at their titles they got playing a really fun game'. In fact I won't mention any working ability at all, they can see that from my dogs if they are after that in particular.
My aim is to breed good healthy 'Dogs' which are easily trained and won't drop dead or cost unfathomable money in vet fees, medication and emotional turmoil. I will be aiming to ensure they have the correct amount of drive for a family pet, not too much so as they are impossible puppies for the average owner, remember everyone has their FIRST Doberman at some time and as many people on here are well aware a 36kg 7 month old male doberman is NOT for the first time dog owner and that is an average drive example to boot.
God help anyone that decides they want a high drive working sports line male doberman if they have never had a dog before.
Now I am getting off the point. Avianantics: Thanks, I know I have a bit of a reputation for not being bothered about conformation but like said above I look for dogs to do their jobs based on their individual physical and mental make up. However I agree that if I were to be selling 'DOBERMANS' then physical conformation is very important, yes I will be taking this into consideration. Also thanks for the constructive advice. This is the sort of info I am looking for.
Having said that I wouldn't use a 'Show conformation' GSD for anything other than playing with in the back yard. Can someone please go into detail why 'conformation' is so important for a dogs working ability, I am confused, are you talking strictly physical conformation or the whole 'standard'
I have a good interest and fairly good understanding of genetics in general and have a buddy that is a geneticists that will help me if I ask for it. Australdi: I have no answer to this post other than: Thank you for this valuable advice, this is the sort of stuff I am looking for.
Mary and Dobes: I suspect your post is a bit antagonistic is this correct? If not then I apologise and could you please elaborate.
I am not sure I can be more specific than he was a Police dog and by default was a working dog, see being a police dog is a job, they like, go to work and bite people and sniff things and stuff
Sam&macksmom: The breeder I got my bitches from did not mention this until I phoned her a year later to give her an update on Becca and Tilly and I mentioned I had gone to check out a schutzhund club. It was more of a missing piece of a jigsaw rather than a reason I bought them. I had already assessed them and their parents myself when I went to look at them but have been pleasantly surprised that they have outperformed my expectations so this I took as a sort of explanation.
I am pretty good a choosing puppies for my work after 28 years of doing it, obviously I would go with my dad when I was a boy and he taught me how to pick a good puppy or asses someone else's dog that approached him for training, he wouldn't just train any dog, he turned plenty of people down, including dobermans. He trained all sorts, from Boxers to believe it or not Golden retrievers, Dobermans don't have the monopoly on protection. In fact in my opinion MOST dobermans have not got it in them when it comes down to the real world where some smack head or alky is screaming at you and waving a hammer around, this sort of **** happened regularly where we used to live. I'd rather have any bullterrier than the AVERAGE doberman in this situation, fact of the matter is the dobermans physical presence is usually enough of a deterrent which is cool.
WorkingK9's: Your mother
Amelia: It is but more better.
Adara: I am not sure but can probably find out, he wasn't young though he had been working a while, maybe there were other instances of fear. To be honest I won't be holding that against him, my dogs have no problem with it, it's not like its an inherited trait, the being scared of the dark not the fear Many service dog trainers will not train Dobermans because they are too highly strung and unreliable so he must have been made of pretty good stuff to get that far. I assume he would have had three years training, two at least, then say its only 2 years in service thats 4 years old, I think she said he was 5, so close to retirement anyway.That incedent will have been down to incorrect training IMO but when you are doing a raid and a dog does that, I suppose he has just gotta go.
On the heart issue I have been investigating that with the vet and so far so good he says she does not have a murmur, It's probably me being paranoid after Pickle keeled over. If she does end up with heart trouble then she won't be used. I think a more pressing bit of research I need to do is if Tilly does not have the problem then WHY?
Ok that is that answered as far as I am concerned, if anyone has more questions or need more clarity than please ask.
I believe my aim is for the benefit of Dobermans as a breed so any and all questions, help and advice will be appreciated by me, any puppy's I produce and future doberman owners.
By the way I am not stupid, if breeders and title chasers want to flame me that is fine I don't care, the type of breeder that flames me rather than helps is clearly part of the problem not the solution same goes for the 'working elite' so flame away my brain will filter out the bullshit from the gold dust.