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Old 02-07-2012, 11:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question About A Breeder Who May Be Overbreeding

I have a question I am hoping someone can help me with. During the summer of last year my family and I had purchased a doberman pup from a breeder whom we thought was reputable. Our buisness encounter with her went smoothly at first, but towards the end started going bad. She wanted us to take the pup early at six weeks instead of the original eight. We were told we would get to pick between three pups and then were denied the opportunity because we could not go to the breeders home when it was convenient for her. Once we got the pup we were left with she had many problems including terrible mouthing. We tried to work with her for many months on her issues we even sent the pup to a board and train facility. We never could get her problems under control and she had continuing problems including food aggression and toy possesiveness, this was mainly around our cats that we had. We eventually had to give this dog back to the breeder. My concern is the breeder herself and the fact that she seems to continue to breed these dogs on a regular basis. The breeder owns the male dog and studs him out to many different females. The owners of the females take care of the pups for the first six weeks and then she takes them and cares for them for the remaining two weeks until they are eight weeks of age. I am extremely worried that she is overbreeding these dogs. She started breeding in october of 2010 and between then and now she has had over 60 puppies. She had a litter in december and the female had 13 puppies and another litter a couple of weeks later in january which had 14 puppies. She also plans to breed another dog next month. She and I are not on good terms from many things that my family and I were not satisfied with on her business techniques. My question is, is there a way to report this? I feel like she is bringing in way too many puppies in to this world and feel that at this point she is only in it for the money. I don't believe it is wrong to breed, but having bred over 60 puppies in a little over a year I feel like is a bit much, especially for a breed like the doberman which some people still do not think highly of. Does anyone think that this much breeding is too much? And if so is there anyway I can report it and try to get it stopped or at least toned down? Thanks for your time!
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Sounds like the typical BYB (Backyard Breeder).

You don't mention where you are from, but you can check your local and state laws for specific language relating to animal husbandry.

Generally, though, if she is providing food and water and some sort of shelter, not much can be done, sorry.

It also sounds like your family was unprepared for all the work that a Doberman puppy can be--which would mean this breeder neither screened thoroughly enough nor provided you guys with the education and ongoing support you would have needed to succeed with your puppy.

I'm sorry things were such a mess, and I hope that girl pup ended up somewhere she was properly spayed, and is not now pumping out even more puppies herself.
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Thank you for your input! We actually spayed the pup ourselves before she even left our home. We were aware that Dobermans were high energy when we got her, but she did neglect to tell us how much energy they required. Nevertheless we tried everything we could to get her under control. We spent countless hours working with her outside in the yard doing obedience classes, board and train. We spent so much money and time trying to get her straightened out. I feel personally like this breeder doesn't screen her females very well because the pup we got had food aggression issues pretty much from the time we brought her home and we thought we had worked through them, but then they popped back up and it really shocked us. I and my family are from Kentucky, but the breeder is from Ohio. I really wish there was something I could do to get her to stop breeding so much. Even though the doberman we had was a lot of work, I have a trememdous amount of respect for the breed and think that they are wonderful dogs! I just would not own one again anytime soon. All I want is for this breeder to be responsible and not do it for the money because I sincerely feel like with that amount of puppies that, that is the only reason she is doing it for. Thank you for your time though, I do appreciate your input!
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:42 AM   #4 (permalink)
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So, who is this breeder and what is her location? The way she is running the business, she doesnt have much money invested. I cant imagine her knowing the personalities well enough to properly place them in homes suitable for each.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Typical backyard breeder.....millions of them out there unfortunately.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
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For the person that wanted to know who the breeder who is her name is Savannah Lancaster. The name of her "buisness" is Pets with Potential, she has a page on facebook for it. I don't think she really screens the females at all. It seems as though every female doberman she has come in contact with she breeds with he stud. I just don't understand why in the world the owners of the female dogs keep letting her male breed with them? I mean she takes good care of them as far as making sure they have food, fresh water, a warm place to sleep, and she gives them two rounds of shots I believe. I just think its too many puppies, that and the fact that she raised her price $100 from when we bought our pup from her, which proves to me that she is in it for the money. I just hate that more dogs are being brought in to this world because of her.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:43 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Oh I'm sorry you also asked where she was from. She is from Mason, Ohio.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Wow if you check out the FB look at the crop on the Fawn puppy a little ways down....

I am sorry you went through this
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:56 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Yes that little girl is hers, I'm sure she will breed her in the future.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:01 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Morgan:

It sounds like this is a very typical backyard breeder. I see they have a white female expecting a litter, and a Hoytt female just added to their breeding program...among others. Obviously these dogs are nowhere near "show quality" as the breeder claims. There is so much more that is wrong with this breeder than only "overbreeding".

As far as the troubles you had with your puppy, I agree with RFR. Unfortunately many buyers don't do anywhere near enough research on the breed before they buy a puppy...and the backyard breeders know it.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I took a quick look at her FB page, and she posts quite often asking for people to buy her left over pups
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:11 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Lelise you are very right with saying that some people do not do their homework on breeds. I can openly admit that we did research, but not enough on this breed, a price we paid for. It is a mistake that I have learned from. I also don't know if she has or has done testing on the parents. It is very sad. The white female is the dog that had puppies in december and had 14 total, but I believe one died and then she also had a litter in january that had 16 total, but only 14 survived. Last I knew she had between 8-10 puppies for sale still and planned on breeding another dog in march. It's just too much! I am fine with people breeding for love of a breed, but do it in moderation or as a hobby from time to time, don't make it your source of income! I wish that I had known this about her from the start, but sadly we did not ask enough questions and got stuck in an awful mess. I really believe the reason the pup we got had so many problems was because the mother pushed them away when they were four weeks old and wanted nothing more to do with them. I've seen on a closed facebook group that she has that another lady that bought the sister of the dog we had, has had many of the same problems with her dog as well. I really feel like she did not screen this mother dog properly.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:25 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I really believe the reason the pup we got had so many problems was because the mother pushed them away when they were four weeks old and wanted nothing more to do with them. I've seen on a closed facebook group that she has that another lady that bought the sister of the dog we had, has had many of the same problems with her dog as well. I really feel like she did not screen this mother dog properly.
Unfortunately the problems you described have more to do with genetics. Aggression can be taught but it is often hereditary especially when it comes to things like food aggression if your pup had it from the moment you got her.

Also unfortunately, there is not much you can do about this breeder other then help educate other puppy buyers about the importance of doing your research and picking a reputable breeder. People like her and puppy mills exists because there is no shortage of uneducated impulsive buyers who keep purchasing puppies from these people and therefore funding their little operations. It is very frustrating to see this happen. People take the purchase of a dog far too lightly and even when their individual puppy grows up just fine, all the other breeding dogs and puppies left behind continue to suffer.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:31 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Wow I didn't realize that it was genetics. That makes me very afraid for the other people who have pups from that litter. Well, I hate that there isn't anything that I can do, but hopefully people will start to see her for what she really is and won't buy any puppies from her. I think the only way she is going to stop breeding is if she ends up with all these puppies that she can't get rid of. I hate it for the pups but I hope it happens soon. Thank you all so much for your opinions and advice, I really appreciate it so much!
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:35 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Wow I didn't realize that it was genetics. That makes me very afraid for the other people who have pups from that litter. Well, I hate that there isn't anything that I can do, but hopefully people will start to see her for what she really is and won't buy any puppies from her. I think the only way she is going to stop breeding is if she ends up with all these puppies that she can't get rid of. I hate it for the pups but I hope it happens soon. Thank you all so much for your opinions and advice, I really appreciate it so much!
Don't hold your breath.. there are tons of breeders like her out there, some have been doing this for years if not decades. Many of them even have devoted supporters who continue to buy pups from them and defend them agains any allegations of being less then reputable. Nothing good happens to the left over puppies and they are usually quickly replaced with younger more sellable ones.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:55 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Morgan, here is a link to a good starting point to learn about reputable breeders. Reputable breeders - for new folks If you compare this link to your dog's breeder, you can see how she is easily considered a BYB.
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Thank you lelise, that was very helpful! The breeder never mentioned about any genetic testing, so I don't know if she does. I highly doubt it. She definitley has more litters than normal from the post I read.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Hi and welcome to the forum. So very sorry you found DT under these circumstances. If you have some time, please post your story on this thread: New Sticky Idea: Bad Experiences with Breeders

Hopefully, it will help others in the future.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:20 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Sure! I will post to that page in just a few moments, I would love to be able to help someone somewhere from my experience!
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I am not sure how to post in the place that you wanted me to. I would be moer than happy to post a thread about my experience with the BYB if you could please tell me how to do so. Thanks!
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:15 AM   #21 (permalink)
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All you would need to do is begin a post on the Bad Breeder Experience thread and add the link to page 1 of this thread. You add the link by left clicking, holding and dragging the address at the very top of your computer screen and releasing the link onto your new post page on the BBE thread. You will need two screens up to do it. If your on a laptop and dont have a mouse, I cant help you, but someone will surely drop by and give you that info if you need it.
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Old 02-09-2012, 02:43 AM   #22 (permalink)
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The puppies food aggression could be due to the Mother pushing the puppies away at four weeks and they have to fight to get food with the most aggresive winning. The mouthing could also have been because the Mother Dog left at 4 weeks and the puppies were on their own without the Mother correcting them and apparently no human either

My first Rescue an Adult Male had a terrible mouthing problem and was driving me nuts; long story short he had a severely abcessed tooth once that was removed and on antibiotics for a week no more problem He was trying to tell me and I just didn't realize it He turned out to be the best Dobe I ever had and my Heart Dog.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with this Breeder but please don't give up on Dobermans they are truly a wonderful Breed. Should you ever decide to get another Doberman please consider a Rescue there are many nice Dobes in Rescue through no fault of their own waiting for their Forever Home.

Yes I do believe this Breeder is breeding too many litters
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:32 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan25 View Post
I am not sure how to post in the place that you wanted me to. I would be moer than happy to post a thread about my experience with the BYB if you could please tell me how to do so. Thanks!
Yes, just click on the link I posted in my post and the thread will come up. Then all you have to do is post to it.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:36 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Thank you Dictator for your input! I really had strong feelings that all of her problems might be linked to her mother. To me the whole ordeal with her mother could have been avoided had the breeder more thoroughly screened that female. I know that female in particular had, had previous litters and I always wondered if she had pushed away her other litters too, but I do not recall the breeder ever saying anything about that. I did see though on the breeders private group that, that female had been spayed so no more puppies will be coming from her thank goodness! The whole experience did scare me away from dobermans. I in no way think that they are bad dogs, but they are much more demading of your time as we found out for ourselves. I might own another doberman one day, but it would be much later on down the road when I have all the time in the world to devote to it. Once my children are grown and gone I would not mind at all adopting one from a rescue, I personally would have rather done that from the beginning, but being that we have young children and other pets we wanted a pup to grow up with all of our family, so we didn't have any problems. My family and I have learned so much from all of the mistakes we have made and my hope is that this breeder will tone down her breeding and that I can educate people through my experience. I don't want anyone to have to go through what my family and I did. I was so heartbroken when we decided to give her back because I wanted nothing more than for her to be a part of our family, but I really felt like it was a ticking time bomb with the way she was trying to really attack our cats, I did not want that to happen to one of my young children. I know the pup has been placed in a new home and I really hope that she is doing well.

I figured out how to post in the other thread so I will be doing that at some point today, thanks for the help!
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:48 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Pets with Potential bred by Savannah Lancaster - First when a person says you get a puppy at 8 weeks and then tries to change it and rush it that should be a red flag. Second you shoud never send a puppy anywhere to be trained. It is about training you on how to properly trian and work with the puppy. You are the one who has to build the bond. So at this point I can't blame it all on the puppy but would not recommend the Pets with Potential puppies if the breeder is just sending out puppies before they are ready to leave their littermates. Sorry for you bad experience.

Would you mind sharing what made you tink this person was reputable or knew anything important about Dobermans??? Thanks
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