Introducing The Doberman Pack BYB - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Breeding and Breeders Know a good Breeder? Are you a Breeder? Please post here and let us know

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 85
Location: North Judson IN
Dogs Name: Demon
Titles: Champion Fetch Player
Dogs Age: 2 yrs
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit TheDobermanPack's Gallery
Thanks: 13
Thanked 20 Times in 15 Posts
 
Introducing The Doberman Pack BYB

Hello, my name is Gary, I am the owner of The Doberman Pack. I have just been notified by my daughter that we have been under vicious attack by some people on this site. This is going to be my first and last post, because what i have witnessed over the past hour by reading your input and the vicious attacks you have launched on my family and specifically the insults directed at my daughter, who was trying to defend us, makes me want to throw up.

First of all, let me aquaint you with my project. I have loved dobermans all of my life and this whole project started when we decided to take in a rescue female. I decided to breed her to my dog damien in the future to provide family pets to other people who love the breed but, who were not interested in a show dog.

One day my daughter found a "Breeder" who was downsizing his program, and we decided to check out the females he was offering. What we found horified us! His dogs were in terrible condition, underfed, dirty, and we suspect they were beaten based on there behavior and appearance. We could not leave these dogs with this man. So I made arrangements to purchase as many of his dogs as I could. I purchased Delilah, a german line who really needed to get out of there. But by the time I picked her up she was pregnant. Shortly afterwards, I arranged to purchase three more of his females. Once again, when I picked them up, one of them was pregnant.

This left me with two litters of puppys from "rescued" dogs, even though he considered it a purchase, and believe me he charged me accordingly. My thought was to sell these puppies to cover the cost of rescuing these dogs. One of these rescues was a beautiful blue which I decided to keep and breed with my dog Damien.

This blue doberman, Sadie, went into heat at the same time as our other female who I was planning to breed with Damien, so I bred both of them. At that time, since I was breeding for family pets and not for any circuit or competition, I did not do any health testing. This includes Damien.

At this time, I am not sure if Sadie or Daisy are infact pregnant. We have sold the first litter of pups from Delilah's litter, and Dazzle is due in about a week. We rehomed Delilah to a man who runs a breeding program for huskys and operates a rescue. He took her to be his house dog and she is in the best home that anyone could ever hope for. She is going to be spayed and we have just been informed that she has been registered/certified as an emotional support dog.

To date that has been the extent of my breeding project. I have not produced a single puppy yet. I have had a litter and another one on the way from this other breeders stock. I don't know if any health tests were done or much of anything else about these puppys. I will sell these puppies to people who would like a family pet, the potential buyers will be informed of the situation on where these puppies came from and the papers will have limited breeding rights, as I do not want to damage the breed in any way.

Which brings me to the reason I am posting this. When I had the idea to breed, I did not take into consideration the damage that somebody like me could do to this magnificent breed. I did not do any health testing on these dogs, and that is one thing that I am going to correct immediatly! I have set appointments to have Damien, Sadie, and Daisy tested for Cardiomyopathy, Hip Dysplasia, Hypothyroidism, VonWillebrand's Disease, Wobblers Syndrome, and CERF. If I find any of these health problems then I will spay or neuter accordingly. If any of these health problems are present then the puppies from the litter will have limited breeding rights as they should not be bred. Also any findings will be relayed to any potential buyer prior to the purchase.

In my opinion, this is the most ethical approach to breeding dogs that have no champion lines, trophys, or "royal blood." And since they are bred in my yard and not in a breeding facility that caters to royalty, I find this to be a suitable program for breeding family pets for companionship, loyalty, and home protection.

Our dogs will never be in any type of venue or hold any titles but, they are not bred for that as they don't fit the breed standard. Damien is about 120 lbs. and contrary to some of your opinions he does not look "stupid" he is a beautiful, well-behaved, faithful, and loving member of my family.

Most of your comments I find to be incredibly rude, obnoxious, childish, and just plain out mean. I mean what is wrong with the oldest dog in my house being four years old. Also two males living with a bunch of bitches makes you feel sorry for my dogs? Are you on drugs? My two males are litter mates and best friends. The smaller of the two males, Demon, has been neutered and we have no issues, whatsoever, with having two males in the same house.

Many of you also decided to attack the one person who tried to defend The Doberman Pack by calling her childish names and insulting her beyond anything I have ever seen before. You should be ashamed of yourselves. You represent yourselves on this site as being experts, and people come here looking for your expert advice, but when they see your childish attacks, that are totally unjustified in many cases, it voids your credibility in the eyes of people who could've been helped.

As for me even though your vicious and unwarranted attacks on my personal character made me tremble with anger, I still see valid points being made that I should have seen before I started this. That is why even though I think many of you are totally despicable, I have listened to the advice that will prevent me from making more mistakes in turning this into a bigger mess then it needs to be.

I have listened to some of the advice from some of the members here. For example, sreed12 made a very good point on testing. Where as most of the input on me was nothing more then insulting character assassination. You know what im saying don't you Sinister? I mean emergency spay? Are you serious? You claim to love this breed yet you would advocate killing entire litters of these beautiful animals because you feel they are unworthy to have a chance at life? There was a man in history who thought in the same way as you back in the 1930s and 1940s and it didn't turn out to well for him. Other posters such as Patchworkrobot should probably just get a life away from the computer for a while. I mean seriously step away from the keyboard and go pet your dog.

There was another member or two on this site who felt it was necessary to actually purchase a copy of Damien's pedigree, WTF? What was you hoping to accomplish by this? Did you think that by showing that there were no champion lines here that maybe i would euthanize my dogs or something? I just dont understand what the point was Avianantics.

The bottom line is this. My dogs are not ever going to be world champions but they will be extremely happy, loved, and healthy. Any puppies that I produce will be produced following ethical procedures. I would like to thank you for pointing out, even if it was very crudely, the mistakes I have made and the mistakes that I was about to make. And with that I will leave you to tear this apart and bash and trash me once again as I know you will because that is what you do best. By the way, Rottenvonspotten if your great dane is smaller then my Damien then maybe you should try feeding that dog.
TheDobermanPack is offline  
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 04:05 PM
Vicious Bitch.
 
Sinister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,079
Dogs Name: Juno vom Langraf
Titles: Juno: IPO, flyball, UKC conformation training.
Dogs Age: July 10th 2011
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Sinister's Gallery
Thanks: 12,928
Thanked 7,062 Times in 2,155 Posts
                     
Call me out? The beginning of your post makes me sick. Then I read about the health testing and I felt like you could turn yourself around. But no titling, killed it. Have you ever titled a dog?? Ever been to a conformation show?? Agility trial? Schutzhund trial? Its amazing and a lot of fun. You're just ignorant. Which can be taken whatever way you want.

And HELL YES I would emergency spay anything rather than MAKE A QUICK BUCK or put that poor animal through birthing and raising. That takes a lot out of an animal!!
Sinister is offline  
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Sinister For This Useful Post:
Abby (02-06-2012), Adara (02-06-2012), annolyn (02-07-2012), Brandy&Melanie (02-09-2012), DogsR4Life (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-08-2012), lelise (02-06-2012), MIA (02-07-2012), raisingKain (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), VZ-Doberman (02-06-2012), ZeldaRules (02-06-2012), Zephyr (02-06-2012)
post #3 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 04:10 PM
Alpha
 
Abby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,107

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Abby's Gallery
Thanks: 5,063
Thanked 5,116 Times in 1,441 Posts
                     

Abby is offline  
The Following 27 Users Say Thank You to Abby For This Useful Post:
Adara (02-06-2012), Alisha Kirby (02-06-2012), AnonymouslyYours (02-11-2012), Australdi (02-06-2012), A_LECO314 (02-07-2012), babybeesmama (02-07-2012), Brandy&Melanie (02-09-2012), bubsy (02-06-2012), doberpagegirl (02-07-2012), DogsR4Life (02-06-2012), KoaRad (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), Lexi (02-06-2012), LizR (02-06-2012), LVdobe (02-06-2012), Q734 (02-06-2012), Sam1491 (02-06-2012), sandy2233 (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), Sinister (02-06-2012), spocksdad (02-06-2012), SReed912 (02-07-2012), Tanner's (02-06-2012), Whiskey (02-06-2012), ZeldaRules (02-06-2012), Zephyr (02-06-2012), zoomatl (02-07-2012)
post #4 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 04:20 PM
Alpha
 
KevinK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,656
Location: North Jersey
Dogs Name: Dakota
Titles: I Has a Rescue

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit KevinK's Gallery
Thanks: 1,775
Thanked 6,725 Times in 1,915 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDobermanPack View Post
Hello, my name is Gary, I am the owner of The Doberman Pack. I have just been notified by my daughter that we have been under vicious attack by some people on this site. This is going to be my first and last post, because what i have witnessed over the past hour by reading your input and the vicious attacks you have launched on my family and specifically the insults directed at my daughter, who was trying to defend us, makes me want to throw up.

First of all, let me aquaint you with my project. I have loved dobermans all of my life and this whole project started when we decided to take in a rescue female. I decided to breed her to my dog damien in the future to provide family pets to other people who love the breed but, who were not interested in a show dog.

One day my daughter found a "Breeder" who was downsizing his program, and we decided to check out the females he was offering. What we found horified us! His dogs were in terrible condition, underfed, dirty, and we suspect they were beaten based on there behavior and appearance. We could not leave these dogs with this man. So I made arrangements to purchase as many of his dogs as I could. I purchased Delilah, a german line who really needed to get out of there. But by the time I picked her up she was pregnant. Shortly afterwards, I arranged to purchase three more of his females. Once again, when I picked them up, one of them was pregnant.

This left me with two litters of puppys from "rescued" dogs, even though he considered it a purchase, and believe me he charged me accordingly. My thought was to sell these puppies to cover the cost of rescuing these dogs. One of these rescues was a beautiful blue which I decided to keep and breed with my dog Damien.

This blue doberman, Sadie, went into heat at the same time as our other female who I was planning to breed with Damien, so I bred both of them. At that time, since I was breeding for family pets and not for any circuit or competition, I did not do any health testing. This includes Damien.

At this time, I am not sure if Sadie or Daisy are infact pregnant. We have sold the first litter of pups from Delilah's litter, and Dazzle is due in about a week. We rehomed Delilah to a man who runs a breeding program for huskys and operates a rescue. He took her to be his house dog and she is in the best home that anyone could ever hope for. She is going to be spayed and we have just been informed that she has been registered/certified as an emotional support dog.

To date that has been the extent of my breeding project. I have not produced a single puppy yet. I have had a litter and another one on the way from this other breeders stock. I don't know if any health tests were done or much of anything else about these puppys. I will sell these puppies to people who would like a family pet, the potential buyers will be informed of the situation on where these puppies came from and the papers will have limited breeding rights, as I do not want to damage the breed in any way.

Which brings me to the reason I am posting this. When I had the idea to breed, I did not take into consideration the damage that somebody like me could do to this magnificent breed. I did not do any health testing on these dogs, and that is one thing that I am going to correct immediatly! I have set appointments to have Damien, Sadie, and Daisy tested for Cardiomyopathy, Hip Dysplasia, Hypothyroidism, VonWillebrand's Disease, Wobblers Syndrome, and CERF. If I find any of these health problems then I will spay or neuter accordingly. If any of these health problems are present then the puppies from the litter will have limited breeding rights as they should not be bred. Also any findings will be relayed to any potential buyer prior to the purchase.

In my opinion, this is the most ethical approach to breeding dogs that have no champion lines, trophys, or "royal blood." And since they are bred in my yard and not in a breeding facility that caters to royalty, I find this to be a suitable program for breeding family pets for companionship, loyalty, and home protection.

Our dogs will never be in any type of venue or hold any titles but, they are not bred for that as they don't fit the breed standard. Damien is about 120 lbs. and contrary to some of your opinions he does not look "stupid" he is a beautiful, well-behaved, faithful, and loving member of my family.
Most of your comments I find to be incredibly rude, obnoxious, childish, and just plain out mean. I mean what is wrong with the oldest dog in my house being four years old. Also two males living with a bunch of bitches makes you feel sorry for my dogs? Are you on drugs? My two males are litter mates and best friends. The smaller of the two males, Demon, has been neutered and we have no issues, whatsoever, with having two males in the same house.

Many of you also decided to attack the one person who tried to defend The Doberman Pack by calling her childish names and insulting her beyond anything I have ever seen before. You should be ashamed of yourselves. You represent yourselves on this site as being experts, and people come here looking for your expert advice, but when they see your childish attacks, that are totally unjustified in many cases, it voids your credibility in the eyes of people who could've been helped.

As for me even though your vicious and unwarranted attacks on my personal character made me tremble with anger, I still see valid points being made that I should have seen before I started this. That is why even though I think many of you are totally despicable, I have listened to the advice that will prevent me from making more mistakes in turning this into a bigger mess then it needs to be.

I have listened to some of the advice from some of the members here. For example, sreed12 made a very good point on testing. Where as most of the input on me was nothing more then insulting character assassination. You know what im saying don't you Sinister? I mean emergency spay? Are you serious? You claim to love this breed yet you would advocate killing entire litters of these beautiful animals because you feel they are unworthy to have a chance at life? There was a man in history who thought in the same way as you back in the 1930s and 1940s and it didn't turn out to well for him. Other posters such as Patchworkrobot should probably just get a life away from the computer for a while. I mean seriously step away from the keyboard and go pet your dog.

There was another member or two on this site who felt it was necessary to actually purchase a copy of Damien's pedigree, WTF? What was you hoping to accomplish by this? Did you think that by showing that there were no champion lines here that maybe i would euthanize my dogs or something? I just dont understand what the point was Avianantics.

The bottom line is this. My dogs are not ever going to be world champions but they will be extremely happy, loved, and healthy. Any puppies that I produce will be produced following ethical procedures. I would like to thank you for pointing out, even if it was very crudely, the mistakes I have made and the mistakes that I was about to make. And with that I will leave you to tear this apart and bash and trash me once again as I know you will because that is what you do best. By the way, Rottenvonspotten if your great dane is smaller then my Damien then maybe you should try feeding that dog.
This is EXACTLY what people who love the breed try to avoid... There is no way to "ethically" breed these types of dogs. People who love dogs, and are going to breed responsibly, breed to the standard... You admit your dogs are NOT to the standard, come from sub-par linneage, and you haven't done any health testing, and you are selling dogs to recoup the purchase price... I'm sorry, but any way you look at it, this is what a BYB does. Simply put, there is no responsible breeder or any breed that woudl do these things, they woudl have just spayed/neutered their pets. I'm not saying their not good dogs, and I'm not saying they shouldn't be loved, and I'm sure they make amazing family pets. But, they have no business being bred. Not to mention you're breeding dilutes, with the other things I mentioned above...

I'm not against someone breeding, but I AM against someone breeding dogs that shouldn't be bred. The shelters, rescues, kill facilities, etc. are full of dogs that were bred to be "family pets". Good breeders breed dogs that have finished in some venue, and if the dogs don't finish, they don't breed them. They search far and wide for suitable mates, and almost never own both. This is considered a breeding of convenience... How does breeding these 2 dogs together make the breed better? If you breed 2 out of breed dogs, are the puppies going to be even further out of the standard? Are you aware with the health risks of breeding oversized dogs?

There's alot to consider when you make the decision to breed, and it's easy to see you're upset, but the way you are going about this is not going to get you support from any true dog lovers, regardless of what dogs they love. If you do things the right way, you will see that you would have a ton of help, support, advice, etc. But it sounds like your dogs should just be fixed, and enjoy your time with them as family pets.

Last edited by KevinK; 02-06-2012 at 04:25 PM.
KevinK is offline  
The Following 22 Users Say Thank You to KevinK For This Useful Post:
annolyn (02-07-2012), Australdi (02-06-2012), Beaumont67 (02-06-2012), Brandy&Melanie (02-09-2012), Darkevs (02-07-2012), doberpagegirl (02-07-2012), DogsR4Life (02-06-2012), GRAYGHOST (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), lelise (02-06-2012), MIA (02-07-2012), Pack_Leader (02-08-2012), prairiefire (02-08-2012), Q734 (02-06-2012), River (02-06-2012), RottenVonSpotten (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), Sinister (02-06-2012), VZ-Doberman (02-06-2012), ZeldaRules (02-06-2012), Zephyr (02-06-2012), zoomatl (02-07-2012)
post #5 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 04:23 PM
MOATS
 
tnh317's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,922

Gallery Pics: 1
Visit tnh317's Gallery
Thanks: 6,480
Thanked 6,958 Times in 1,602 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby View Post
Michael would like his with extra butter please.


"Expect the worst and you won't be disappointed." - Helen MacInnes
tnh317 is offline  
The Following 25 Users Say Thank You to tnh317 For This Useful Post:
Abby (02-06-2012), Ahalvorsen (02-06-2012), Australdi (02-06-2012), Beaumont67 (02-06-2012), blackdoberboy (02-09-2012), Brandy&Melanie (02-09-2012), bubsy (02-06-2012), cheechbalzano (02-07-2012), gracieface (02-09-2012), HoustonWHAP (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), lelise (02-06-2012), Lexi (02-06-2012), Lillie's Mom (02-06-2012), Motomutt (02-09-2012), pindrop (02-06-2012), Q734 (02-06-2012), River (02-06-2012), RottenVonSpotten (02-06-2012), SReed912 (02-07-2012), Tanner's (02-06-2012), the_discowhore (02-06-2012), Whiskey (02-06-2012), Zephyr (02-06-2012), zoomatl (02-07-2012)
post #6 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 04:27 PM
Sniffing Machine
 
DogsR4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,681
Location: Moncton, NB
Dogs Name: Chase
Titles: CGN, TT, SD-S, SD-A
Dogs Age: 8 years
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit DogsR4Life's Gallery
Thanks: 4,766
Thanked 10,480 Times in 2,053 Posts
                     
There are too many dogs in shelters that need homes already. By you breeding 'pet' quality, your not accomplishing anything. If you want a pet quality dog, adopt. There is a reason why there is a breeding license, a reason for titling, showing, and gaining points: to better the breed. How do we better the breed? Stay within standards, show that your dog is worthy by accomplishing titles that highlight the breeds purpose, conformation, workability, and athleticism, and these traits are usually found in Champion bloodlines.

Thank you for adopting your dogs and giving them a great home. But please, don't breed pet quality dogs. Just enjoy the dogs you have already, and if someone asks about litters, point them towards a rescue or shelter.

Never look down on someone, unless you are helping them up

Last edited by DogsR4Life; 02-06-2012 at 04:49 PM.
DogsR4Life is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to DogsR4Life For This Useful Post:
LindaH (02-08-2012), missabaldwin (02-06-2012), Pack_Leader (02-08-2012), Q734 (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012)
post #7 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 04:35 PM
Owned by Dobes since 1975
 
Darkevs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 30,049
Location: BC, Canada!
Dogs Name: Charlie & Naughty Dottie!
Titles: BDIH & BND
Dogs Age: 6 3\4 & 2
Gallery Pics: 46
Visit Darkevs's Gallery
Thanks: 83,469
Thanked 48,801 Times in 18,811 Posts
Images: 46
                     
melbrod!!!!!!!

is it ok if i get 'snarky' now?


Darkevs is offline  
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Darkevs For This Useful Post:
annolyn (02-07-2012), Australdi (02-06-2012), Beaumont67 (02-06-2012), brw1982 (02-06-2012), bubsy (02-06-2012), eegreen (02-08-2012), KoaRad (02-06-2012), kwhite30 (02-06-2012), monicaei (02-06-2012), Q734 (02-06-2012), RottenVonSpotten (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012)
post #8 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 04:37 PM
mastiffied
 
wantsaDobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,455
Location: Venus
Dogs Name: Mason
Titles: beloved PITA
Dogs Age: born 9.o7.11
Gallery Pics: 14
Visit wantsaDobe's Gallery
Thanks: 6,617
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,018 Posts
Images: 14
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDobermanPack View Post
Any puppies that I produce will be produced following ethical procedures.
Ethical procedures would include trying to preserve the integrity of the breed you are contributing to. If no one cared if their dogs met the standard because they're not going to be world champions, Dobermans would eventually stop looking like Dobermans. With a 120lb stud dog, you're well on your way to making that happen.

People that choose purebred dogs for companionship deserve healthy, beautiful, well tempered animals. Please don't use the "I'm breeding for pets only" as an excuse to cut corners and set the bar low for your breeding stock.

Ethical procedures also include thorough screening of potential homes so that puppies you produce do not end up abused, neglected, or dumped.

Last edited by wantsaDobe; 02-06-2012 at 04:39 PM.
wantsaDobe is offline  
The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to wantsaDobe For This Useful Post:
annolyn (02-07-2012), Australdi (02-06-2012), Beaumont67 (02-06-2012), blackdoberboy (02-09-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), Lillie's Mom (02-06-2012), MIA (02-07-2012), miranadobe (02-07-2012), missabaldwin (02-06-2012), Q734 (02-06-2012), RedFawnRising (02-08-2012), RottenVonSpotten (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), SReed912 (02-07-2012), txsaphire (02-09-2012), VZ-Doberman (02-06-2012), ZeldaRules (02-06-2012)
post #9 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 04:42 PM
Ameteur Houdini
 
Reptilehoundz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 239
Dogs Name: Annie and Rocky
Titles: Not just yet..
Dogs Age: 6 years, 8 months
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Reptilehoundz's Gallery
Thanks: 110
Thanked 433 Times in 146 Posts
                     
"Pet's Only" Hahaha. I would think that families who want "pets" want to have one that will live past 4 or 5 years. Ya know, the ones real breeders help create...the healthy and conformationally correct ones.

If you aren't breeding to the Doberman Breed standard, in essence, you are breeding a mutt with a "Doberman" label. Has it ever occurred to you that you are helping put MORE young dogs into the same situations that you "rescued" those two females from? It's a paradox, really. If you really cared about those doberman girls, you would have realized that you couldn't afford to "rescue" them (since, obviously, you had to recoup expenses), and contacted a doberman rescue group. If they were really being abused, maybe contacted Animal Control for animal abuse? It's understandable, we all make mistakes. We want to do things ourselves. Now is the time that you can, not "fix" but partially mend the mistakes you made. Spay and neuter your animals. Find new homes for them if you can't afford to feed them. Maybe volunteer at an animal shelter for a month? Make the right choice.

Rockstar, goofus extraordinaire and Annie, the vicious accomplice!

Last edited by Reptilehoundz; 02-06-2012 at 04:49 PM.
Reptilehoundz is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Reptilehoundz For This Useful Post:
Adara (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), lelise (02-06-2012), RottenVonSpotten (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), VZ-Doberman (02-06-2012), ZeldaRules (02-06-2012), zoomatl (02-07-2012)
post #10 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 04:42 PM
Alpha
 
MsMoppett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 907
Location: New Orleans, LA
Dogs Name: Penelope the cat
Titles: An old lady in a fur coat...

Gallery Pics: 2
Visit MsMoppett's Gallery
Thanks: 1,011
Thanked 1,790 Times in 639 Posts
Images: 2
                     
NO one ever said that you don't love your dogs, and they are not great pets. We all love Dobermans and we're sure that they are. Does that mean they should be bred? No.

What if one of your dogs DOES have DCM? What if the litter of puppies is affected by DCM? Will you go ahead and sell them to a family only to have them lose their dog in as little as a year or two? And for money?

I guess what makes us upset is that we love the breed so much; and you're only putting your two dogs together who carry no trait to further improve the breed in order to make some money. You yourself say that you love creating pets for people to buy. An ethical person would understand that there is no need in this world to just breed for pets. We have shelters full of dogs (yes, you CAN find numerous purebred Dobes that need homes in shelters), and they're getting euthanized every day.

So, using your own example, you state that you want to sell your dogs on limited breeding rights because you "don't want to damage the breed in any way." How are you more qualified than those you sell your dogs to in the realm of breeding?



"Rooooooooooooooooo!"
MsMoppett is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to MsMoppett For This Useful Post:
DogsR4Life (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), lelise (02-06-2012), missabaldwin (02-06-2012), RottenVonSpotten (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), VZ-Doberman (02-06-2012)
post #11 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 04:43 PM
joie de vivre
 
brw1982's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,994
Location: Missouri
Dogs Name: Fiona & Tali
Titles: Fiona: CGC; Tali: CGC
Dogs Age: 4.21.09, 5.09.08
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit brw1982's Gallery
Thanks: 50,533
Thanked 31,072 Times in 8,704 Posts
Images: 9
                     
Hi TheDobermanPack.

How much do you sell your pups for?




"If you're going to be stupid, you better be tough." ~unknown
brw1982 is offline  
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to brw1982 For This Useful Post:
Abby (02-06-2012), Beaumont67 (02-06-2012), bubsy (02-06-2012), DogsR4Life (02-06-2012), lelise (02-06-2012), RottenVonSpotten (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), Tanner's (02-06-2012), txsaphire (02-09-2012), VZ-Doberman (02-06-2012), Zephyr (02-06-2012)
post #12 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 04:43 PM
_______
 
Q734's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,095

Gallery Pics: 26
Visit Q734's Gallery
Thanks: 11,643
Thanked 7,481 Times in 3,247 Posts
Images: 26
                     
Click here to find out how Q734 became a supporter
In this day and age if you aren't health testing or able to take back EVERY ONE of the puppies you produce should they have to be rehomed you've no business breeding.

There are plenty of smokin' hot sweet tempered dogs w/no health testing and products of greedy breeding out there in shelters already and not enough good homes to go around.

Do you have homes lined up already for all these puppies? Are you going to screen homes by a kiss & a prayer?

And pulling out Hitler references makes people look like fools, like this world needs another litter of byb dogs to fill up shelters for the gas chamber. FAIL.

Last edited by Q734; 02-06-2012 at 04:46 PM.
Q734 is offline  
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Q734 For This Useful Post:
Australdi (02-06-2012), Beaumont67 (02-06-2012), brw1982 (02-06-2012), bubsy (02-06-2012), DogsR4Life (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), lelise (02-06-2012), MIA (02-07-2012), RottenVonSpotten (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), VZ-Doberman (02-06-2012)
post #13 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 05:16 PM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,696
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Kip, Capri (RIP)
Titles: Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior, DS#15
Dogs Age: 10 years Dec. 15, 2005, 7 years Dec. 14, 2008--January 20, 2016
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 36,746
Thanked 36,379 Times in 11,270 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkevs View Post
melbrod!!!!!!!

is it ok if i get 'snarky' now?

DT--it's like herding cats. *sigh*
melbrod is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
*Wrigley* (02-06-2012), Australdi (02-06-2012), brw1982 (02-06-2012), Darkevs (02-06-2012), ellenm (02-08-2012), HoustonWHAP (02-06-2012), MsMoppett (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012)
post #14 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 05:19 PM
Owned by Dobes since 1975
 
Darkevs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 30,049
Location: BC, Canada!
Dogs Name: Charlie & Naughty Dottie!
Titles: BDIH & BND
Dogs Age: 6 3\4 & 2
Gallery Pics: 46
Visit Darkevs's Gallery
Thanks: 83,469
Thanked 48,801 Times in 18,811 Posts
Images: 46
                     
is that a yes?


Darkevs is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Darkevs For This Useful Post:
Australdi (02-06-2012), brw1982 (02-06-2012), bubsy (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012)
post #15 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 05:22 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,652

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 9,189
Thanked 16,589 Times in 5,110 Posts
                     
Spay and neuter immediately before you do anymore damage. You've already done enough damage as it is....
VZ-Doberman is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Sherryh (02-07-2012), Sinister (02-06-2012), txsaphire (02-09-2012)
post #16 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 05:22 PM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,696
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Kip, Capri (RIP)
Titles: Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior, DS#15
Dogs Age: 10 years Dec. 15, 2005, 7 years Dec. 14, 2008--January 20, 2016
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 36,746
Thanked 36,379 Times in 11,270 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
In the spirit of the best bureaucracies......I'll get back with you. (First, fill out this 30 page form in triplicate)
melbrod is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
*Wrigley* (02-06-2012), Australdi (02-06-2012), brw1982 (02-06-2012), Darkevs (02-06-2012), HoustonWHAP (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012)
post #17 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 05:26 PM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 11,434
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Ilka (Mutt), Leo (GSD); Lily (Pittie)
Titles: Ilka- BN RE CA CGC ITD PKD-T CRO-1 NCO-1; Leo- U-CA ITD PKD-T D-CRO-Preliminary; Lily- NTD PKD-T
Dogs Age: Ilka 6; Leo 4; Lily 1; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 34,248
Thanked 26,729 Times in 8,925 Posts
                     
Oh, come on people. Those bitches OBVIOUSLY owe him for "rescuing" them Of course they have to pump out a couple more litters each to justify the money he forked over for them.

I did notice that one of his "rescues" was being touted as being from "great German lines". If she was truly a "rescue" her pups should have been offered as such for a nominal fee, just enough to cover the cost of a spay, or else turned over to a legitimate rescue group.
Rosemary is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (09-27-2013), brw1982 (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), Zephyr (02-06-2012)
post #18 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 05:27 PM
Get the bunnies!
 
the_discowhore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,024
Location: Middle Earth
Dogs Name: Elsie & Ping
Titles: CDX UDX TT1 JDX AD RA

Gallery Pics: 6
Visit the_discowhore's Gallery
Thanks: 14,214
Thanked 17,371 Times in 5,084 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Couldn't be bothered reading past this >

Quote:
y thought was to sell these puppies to cover the cost of rescuing these dogs. One of these rescues was a beautiful blue which I decided to keep and breed with my dog Damien.
How awful is that?! Oh I saved your life, now to repay me... Let me plunder your uterus!


Do it or Elsie CDX UDX TT1 JDX AD RA
Ch Alarves Completely Awesome (IMP Aus)
the_discowhore is offline  
The Following 28 Users Say Thank You to the_discowhore For This Useful Post:
annolyn (02-07-2012), Australdi (02-06-2012), Beaumont67 (02-06-2012), blackdoberboy (02-09-2012), Brandy&Melanie (09-27-2013), brw1982 (02-06-2012), bubsy (02-06-2012), eegreen (02-08-2012), GingerGunlock (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), Lexi (02-06-2012), Lillie's Mom (02-06-2012), mangujowa (02-08-2012), MIA (02-07-2012), Mila Chan (02-08-2012), MsMoppett (02-06-2012), Q734 (02-06-2012), RedFawnRising (02-08-2012), RottenVonSpotten (02-06-2012), Sam1491 (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), Sinister (02-06-2012), Steph82497 (02-07-2012), txsaphire (02-09-2012), wantsaDobe (02-07-2012), ZeldaRules (02-06-2012), Zephyr (02-06-2012), zoomatl (02-07-2012)
post #19 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 05:27 PM
Owned by Dobes since 1975
 
Darkevs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 30,049
Location: BC, Canada!
Dogs Name: Charlie & Naughty Dottie!
Titles: BDIH & BND
Dogs Age: 6 3\4 & 2
Gallery Pics: 46
Visit Darkevs's Gallery
Thanks: 83,469
Thanked 48,801 Times in 18,811 Posts
Images: 46
                     
OK.

I take that as a YES!



this will be short.

TDP, you mother, you bred a rescued dobergirl?

after that i could hardly read the rest of your rant as there were tears in my eyes.

Tears of rage, and sadness.

I do not like you.

good bye.

Darkevs is offline  
The Following 21 Users Say Thank You to Darkevs For This Useful Post:
*Wrigley* (02-06-2012), Beaumont67 (02-06-2012), bubsy (02-06-2012), eegreen (02-08-2012), GingerGunlock (02-06-2012), KCFilley (02-07-2012), KoaRad (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), kwhite30 (02-06-2012), Lexi (02-06-2012), Lillie's Mom (02-06-2012), Luvbirds (02-07-2012), monicaei (02-06-2012), Motomutt (02-09-2012), RottenVonSpotten (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), Sinister (02-06-2012), txsaphire (02-09-2012), Whiskey (02-06-2012), ZeldaRules (02-06-2012), zoomatl (02-07-2012)
post #20 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 05:31 PM
Get the bunnies!
 
the_discowhore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,024
Location: Middle Earth
Dogs Name: Elsie & Ping
Titles: CDX UDX TT1 JDX AD RA

Gallery Pics: 6
Visit the_discowhore's Gallery
Thanks: 14,214
Thanked 17,371 Times in 5,084 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_discowhore View Post
... Let me plunder your uterus!




Do it or Elsie CDX UDX TT1 JDX AD RA
Ch Alarves Completely Awesome (IMP Aus)
the_discowhore is offline  
The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to the_discowhore For This Useful Post:
Ahalvorsen (02-06-2012), annolyn (02-07-2012), Australdi (02-06-2012), Beaumont67 (02-06-2012), Brandy&Melanie (09-27-2013), brw1982 (02-06-2012), bubsy (02-06-2012), GingerGunlock (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), Pack_Leader (02-08-2012), RedFawnRising (02-08-2012), RottenVonSpotten (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), Whiskey (02-06-2012), zoomatl (02-07-2012)
post #21 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 05:35 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,652

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 9,189
Thanked 16,589 Times in 5,110 Posts
                     
After viewing your site how in the hell did you ever think even ONE of those dogs is fit to be bred??? The conformation is piss poor on all of them. They have no business being bred......oh, wait........they are your business. Do you really need money that badly that you would do this????

BYBs are on the same level as child molesters and wife beaters.....
VZ-Doberman is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Luvbirds (02-07-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), Sinister (02-06-2012), Whiskey (02-06-2012), ZeldaRules (02-06-2012)
post #22 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 05:52 PM
Alpha
 
lelise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 990
Location: VA
Dogs Name: Hans (dobe), Diego (bouvier)
Titles: IPO

Gallery Pics: 12
Visit lelise's Gallery
Thanks: 3,544
Thanked 2,314 Times in 715 Posts
Images: 12
                     
-you BOUGHT (not rescued) dogs that you admit were abused and in horrible condition, allowed them to carry their puppies to term and SOLD them to replenish your bank account. strike one.

-you then intentionally bred two untested females to your grossly out of standard, untested, male and plan on SELLING the puppies. strike two.

-you are SELLING people puppies from untested parents without knowing squat about their lineage and calling them good family pets...when really they will most likely cost thousands in vet bills from the health issues they will most likely have. strike three.

-I am willing to put good money on the fact that you are not properly screening good homes for these puppies, and that the majority will end up in a rescue organization or put to sleep in a pound. strike four.

I could go on...

You say you are going to health test your dogs. Ok, great. Have any idea how much the required health testing costs for just one dog???

"Utility is the true criterion for beauty."-Captain Max von Stephanitz


Hurtan iz Galakuan BH OB1 TR1
lelise is offline  
The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to lelise For This Useful Post:
Australdi (02-06-2012), Beaumont67 (02-06-2012), bubsy (02-06-2012), eegreen (02-08-2012), GingerGunlock (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), MIA (02-07-2012), missabaldwin (02-06-2012), Q734 (02-06-2012), RedFawnRising (02-08-2012), RottenVonSpotten (02-06-2012), Sam1491 (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012), Sinister (02-06-2012), the_discowhore (02-06-2012), txsaphire (02-09-2012)
post #23 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 05:56 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,652

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 9,189
Thanked 16,589 Times in 5,110 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by lelise View Post
-
You say you are going to health test your dogs. Ok, great. Have any idea how much the required health testing costs for just one dog???


Not to worry, he'll just continue to breed his females every heat. Or, go out and "rescue" some more substandard breeding stock off craigslist.
VZ-Doberman is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Adara (02-06-2012), brw1982 (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), lelise (02-06-2012), Sam1491 (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012)
post #24 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 05:59 PM
ShutUp an Scratch My Butt
 
Sam1491's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,676
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Mabel - Bubba
Dogs Age: 5/01/10 - 5/14/11
Gallery Pics: 88
Visit Sam1491's Gallery
Thanks: 13,550
Thanked 14,494 Times in 4,913 Posts
Images: 88
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDobermanPack View Post
....... I have loved dobermans all of my life and this whole project started when we decided to take in a rescue female. I decided to breed her to my dog damien in the future to provide family pets to other people who love the breed but, who were not interested in a show dog.

One day my daughter found a "Breeder" who was downsizing his program, and we decided to check out the females he was offering. What we found horified us! His dogs were in terrible condition, underfed, dirty, and we suspect they were beaten based on there behavior and appearance. We could not leave these dogs with this man. So I made arrangements to purchase as many of his dogs as I could. I purchased Delilah, a german line who really needed to get out of there. But by the time I picked her up she was pregnant. Shortly afterwards, I arranged to purchase three more of his females. Once again, when I picked them up, one of them was pregnant.

This left me with two litters of puppys from "rescued" dogs, even though he considered it a purchase, and believe me he charged me accordingly. My thought was to sell these puppies to cover the cost of rescuing these dogs. One of these rescues was a beautiful blue which I decided to keep and breed with my dog Damien.

This blue doberman, Sadie, went into heat at the same time as our other female who I was planning to breed with Damien, so I bred both of them. At that time, since I was breeding for family pets and not for any circuit or competition, I did not do any health testing. This includes Damien.

At this time, I am not sure if Sadie or Daisy are infact pregnant. We have sold the first litter of pups from Delilah's litter, and Dazzle is due in about a week. We rehomed Delilah to a man who runs a breeding program for huskys and operates a rescue. He took her to be his house dog and she is in the best home that anyone could ever hope for. She is going to be spayed and we have just been informed that she has been registered/certified as an emotional support dog.

To date that has been the extent of my breeding project. I have not produced a single puppy yet. I have had a litter and another one on the way from this other breeders stock. I don't know if any health tests were done or much of anything else about these puppys. I will sell these puppies to people who would like a family pet, the potential buyers will be informed of the situation on where these puppies came from and the papers will have limited breeding rights, as I do not want to damage the breed in any way.
.................
In my opinion, this is the most ethical approach to breeding dogs that have no champion lines, trophys, or "royal blood." And since they are bred in my yard and not in a breeding facility that caters to royalty, I find this to be a suitable program for breeding family pets for companionship, loyalty, and home protection.

Our dogs will never be in any type of venue or hold any titles but, they are not bred for that as they don't fit the breed standard
. Damien is about 120 lbs. and contrary to some of your opinions he does not look "stupid" he is a beautiful, well-behaved, faithful, and loving member of my family.
.....................
As for me even though your vicious and unwarranted attacks on my personal character made me tremble with anger, I still see valid points being made that I should have seen before I started this. That is why even though I think many of you are totally despicable, I have listened to the advice that will prevent me from making more mistakes in turning this into a bigger mess then it needs to be.
............................

The bottom line is this. My dogs are not ever going to be world champions but they will be extremely happy, loved, and healthy. Any puppies that I produce will be produced following ethical procedures. I would like to thank you for pointing out, even if it was very crudely, the mistakes I have made and the mistakes that I was about to make. And with that I will leave you to tear this apart and bash and trash me once again as I know you will because that is what you do best. By the way, Rottenvonspotten if your great dane is smaller then my Damien then maybe you should try feeding that dog.
Everything in bold is honestly what proves that despite your love of your dogs and the breed, you haven't a clue what your doing or how to do it the right way.

I think what bugs me the MOST is that you openly say you bred dogs solely purchased to rescue from what you also openly admit was a shitty breeder and then you breed them! Yes two came pregnant and you have rehomed one, good for you.

But then you proceed to say how as crappily bred and sub par (paraphrasing your words "not bred to standard" and "never going to title in any venue") your male and again the females (as like you said they came from a crappy breeder and are also unlikely to have titles and sure aren't going to get any) are yet you have no intentions of discontinuing your "breeding project" which by the way, its not a project or a "fun little hobby" to anyone who really is doing it for the right reasons, the right way, its their life!
They live, breathe, and think of nothing but the breed and the dogs well being first, it's not a fun thing to do for some cash and because it sounds like a good idea! It's blood, sweat, tears, heartache, joy, and money (more spent than earned!) to do the proper testing, to title in some sort of venue and prove their dog is worthy of making the next generation of truly good! dobermans.

Kudos to you for "rescuing" but next time why not actually rescue instead of purchase what are now basically brood mares......


p.s. bitches do come in season more than once btw! so not that I condone any of it but there was no honest need to have to breed both!
Do you have any clue how hard two litters at the exact same time is?
Puppies are cute but when theirs that many it can quickly turn into furry four legged hell, teething, feeding, clean-up, training....yea good luck!

The Red Devil Diva & Her Shamelessly Obedient Human
Bubba: Allergy King and Chief of Naps

Last edited by Sam1491; 02-06-2012 at 06:04 PM.
Sam1491 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sam1491 For This Useful Post:
MIA (02-07-2012), RottenVonSpotten (02-06-2012), Sherryh (02-07-2012)
post #25 of 230 (permalink) Old 02-06-2012, 06:15 PM
sufferin succotash
 
sam&macksmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,170
Location: Doberville
Dogs Name: Sammy and Mack
Titles: CGC,TDI,TT
Dogs Age: Sam-8 Mack-10ish
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit sam&macksmom's Gallery
Thanks: 8,914
Thanked 18,788 Times in 6,514 Posts
                     
Quote:
Seven puppies available: 3 black& tan males, 3 black & tan females, and 1 red & rust male! All puppies include: tails and dew claws removed, first shots, dewormer, AKC registration papers, health guarantee, and puppy package. Price varies $550-$600 with $200 deposit to hold puppy of your choice. Email thedobermanpack@hotmail.com
one of many ads on the interweb: AKC Doberman Puppies For Sale! | Doberman Pinscher Dogs and Puppies For Sale & Adoption | North Judson, Indiana | 257988


Quote:
Originally Posted by brw1982 View Post
Hi TheDobermanPack.

How much do you sell your pups for?

Reputable Breeder Checklist: Here
DPCA: Here
UDC: Here
sam&macksmom is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to sam&macksmom For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (02-06-2012), bubsy (02-06-2012), kuku4dobes (02-06-2012), lelise (02-06-2012)
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

Tags
the doberman pack

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome