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Old 01-18-2012, 06:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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WTH.. Standard Poodle /ST. Bernard cross

I was doing an inspection today & the lady at the school wanted to kow if I wanted a puppy. I asked her what kind they were & she said a Berdoodle. I was ...WTH is a Berdoodle. She said it's a cross I started.. St. Bernard & standard poodle.. I said thanks.. I'll pass. I'm getting a new Dobe puppy in Feb...Some days I just want to stand & smack my head on a wall at people.
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Wow! That's terrible and yet I'm kind of curious as to what the outcome looks like.

People suck.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Coming from a groomer, you would be absolutely disgusted with the breeds we see. Esp when you see the price tag, and hear them rant about the breed. For me? I like breeds that had a purpose.. not something you bred because it would be "cute." Irritates me to no end..
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Some of these "designer dog" breeds are just insane! ..... All I have to say is WHY?????????
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I agree. Why???

You are too funny. Smack your head on the wall or smack her head.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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When she said it's a "bernoodle" I would have just immediately said "Oh, a mutt."

Then they usually say something about it being a cross between this and that, and I say "oh, a mutt."

Then they usually say something more about it, and I say a little more forcefully "you mean a mutt."

They usually get the idea by then that I'm not backing off that it's nothing more than a mutt.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Weren't dobes and all dogs for that matter that have been designed for a purpose refined to a point that they resemble the initial breed very little? I mean...there's 2 ways to look at everything, not saying I disagree with you guys, just sayin...


Look at the original pics of a dobe and see what it's been refined to, or a GSD for that matter. I mean they've bred out a lot of the original traits/looks/temperament so it coexists with their/our life style. I mean when Karl F.L. Doberman "designed" the dobe, GSD breeders, Rotty breeders etc probably thought the same thing.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by UtahDobe View Post
Weren't dobes and all dogs for that matter that have been designed for a purpose refined to a point that they resemble the initial breed very little? I mean...there's 2 ways to look at everything, not saying I disagree with you guys, just sayin...


Look at the original pics of a dobe and see what it's been refined to, or a GSD for that matter. I mean they've bred out a lot of the original traits/looks/temperament so it coexists with their/our life style. I mean when Karl F.L. Doberman "designed" the dobe, GSD breeders, Rotty breeders etc probably thought the same thing.

That was a long time ago.

We did not have the rampant pet overpopulation problem back then.

There are over 400 existing breeds in the world. If you (general "you") can't find one among those that suits you, might be time to re-think just how much you like dogs in general.

None, that I can see, of these "designer breed" morons are using any kind of good stock. By definition they are breeding BYB to BYB, mediocre, undistinguished, unproven animals.


None are seemingly health testing, or using their dogs for anything except money-making. There is no "vision" as there purportedly was, back in the day, when working breeds like the Doberman were being developed.

There seems to be zero thought, most of the time, put into the traits and types of the two breeds being "designed" together. They aren't working towards anything, except the almighty "rehoming fee."

FFS, someone around here is supposedly crossing Pomeranians and St. Bernards. Pits and Akitas (what a fabulous idea that is!), Beagles and Poodles (well at least they were both originally bred to work with hunters, gah), GSPs and Pits, and my latest favorite, supposedly a cross of Spinone Italiano and Boston Terrier, kid you not.

Don't kid yourself that there is gonna be some great new breed in the future out of all that kind of poorly planned haphazard FUBAR mess.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
That was a long time ago.

We did not have the rampant pet overpopulation problem back then.

There are over 400 existing breeds in the world. If you (general "you") can't find one among those that suits you, might be time to re-think just how much you like dogs in general.

None, that I can see, of these "designer breed" morons are using any kind of good stock. By definition they are breeding BYB to BYB, mediocre, undistinguished, unproven animals.


None are seemingly health testing, or using their dogs for anything except money-making. There is no "vision" as there purportedly was, back in the day, when working breeds like the Doberman were being developed.

There seems to be zero thought, most of the time, put into the traits and types of the two breeds being "designed" together. They aren't working towards anything, except the almighty "rehoming fee."

FFS, someone around here is supposedly crossing Pomeranians and St. Bernards. Pits and Akitas (what a fabulous idea that is!), Beagles and Poodles (well at least they were both originally bred to work with hunters, gah), GSPs and Pits, and my latest favorite, supposedly a cross of Spinone Italiano and Boston Terrier, kid you not.

Don't kid yourself that there is gonna be some great new breed in the future out of all that kind of poorly planned haphazard FUBAR mess.

Let's not jump to conclusions here... I'm not endorsing anything, all
I'm saying is 120yrs ago I'm betting the dobe was thought of as a mutt, I mean 5-6 breeds to make a purebred? So my point was a general ALL dogs start from something. The dobe was created using multiple breeds, as was most dogs. The dobe is a relatively "new" breed considering others. Although, I'm not sure what the dog population was 120yrs ago I can bet there was just as few people making the ratio of dogs to people very much the same as they are today, idk, trust me I'm not endorsing any behavior as far as breeding.


I love dobes, better than my past GSDs due to their "Velcro" type personalities, their majestic looks and goofiness. But let's not throw stones at glass houses.... I'm sure I'm pissing people off, but I just think "it is, what it is" so to speak and things generally have a gray tinge at the border.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:37 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
That was a long time ago.

We did not have the rampant pet overpopulation problem back then.

There are over 400 existing breeds in the world. If you (general "you") can't find one among those that suits you, might be time to re-think just how much you like dogs in general.

None, that I can see, of these "designer breed" morons are using any kind of good stock. By definition they are breeding BYB to BYB, mediocre, undistinguished, unproven animals.

None are seemingly health testing, or using their dogs for anything except money-making. There is no "vision" as there purportedly was, back in the day, when working breeds like the Doberman were being developed.

There seems to be zero thought, most of the time, put into the traits and types of the two breeds being "designed" together. They aren't working towards anything, except the almighty "rehoming fee."

FFS, someone around here is supposedly crossing Pomeranians and St. Bernards. Pits and Akitas (what a fabulous idea that is!), Beagles and Poodles (well at least they were both originally bred to work with hunters, gah), GSPs and Pits, and my latest favorite, supposedly a cross of Spinone Italiano and Boston Terrier, kid you not.

Don't kid yourself that there is gonna be some great new breed in the future out of all that kind of poorly planned haphazard FUBAR mess.
All good points.

I have little problem with knowledgeable people very rarely breeding a unique cross for a specific purpose (as examples: there are some common crosses in certain areas for people that are very avid hunters - I'm thinking of some of the sighthound crosses like lurchers; or the guy who originally thought of a lab/poodle cross to try to create a hypoallergenic guide dog, etc). However, the people doing this usually breed very very rarely, use proven working stock, and have a very specific purpose in mind besides "cuteness." These pups have homes before the breeding even takes place, and the future owners are not blindly purchasing because of a trendy or cute factor. I know some sighthound people who would love to own some of these nice crosses, but it's almost impossible to find one because the breeders almost never breed and have all the potential puppies placed before the thought of breeding even comes up.

An important thing to keep in mind with almost ALL "designer" breeds these days: they are nearly always a cross between two different breeds forever and ever and ever (poodle to lab, poodle to golden, poodle to yorkie, etc.) Because you are not breeding the resulting offspring that makeup these "breeds," you have very little predictability from individual to individual (why they don't count as "breeds" in my mind, just crosses with specific names). There is no final goal for these "breeds" or any gradual refining of traits or characteristics. So a labradoodle or any doodle can look like a completely different type of dog than its litter mates.

In the horse world, breed crossings aren't all that uncommon in disciplines where the breed doesn't matter. In fact, many of the top sport horses (dressage, jumping, eventing) come from registries in Europe that breed for a type and have relatively open stud books (offspring and parents must be approved by the registry in order to carry a certain registry's brand). Crosses in the horse world can still be just as stupid (and "greeders" are not uncommon), but thankfully horses only have one at a time...

It's also worth reiterating that a huge problem with designer breeds is that most of the breeding stock being used for these mass produced crosses are animals that are pet quality at absolute best (and walking conformation, health, and disposition nightmares at worst)... No quality breeder would let their dogs get into the hands of a designer breeder. So, as RFR said, it's just BYB to BYB to BYB to BYB...

If someone can thoughtfully "design" a new breed from excellent stock and then is extremely selective about the human participants in the developing breed, that might be something to consider. Still, there are SO many breeds out there already that it seems like you should be able to find something that suits your fancy = )

In that vein, one recently developed sighthound breed (not recognized by the AKC or anything though) that is quite low in numbers (not filling the shelters and such) is the Silken Windhound. Even though the breed appears to be pretty carefully managed and the owners rave about them (usually people who own other sighthounds), these types of breeding activities still create controversy in a world with such a huge overpopulation problem.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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wow what a way to ruin a dog as gourgeous as a Standard Poodle. The dog on the link looks nothing like either. Horrible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akturbo View Post
Coming from a groomer, you would be absolutely disgusted with the breeds we see. Esp when you see the price tag, and hear them rant about the breed. For me? I like breeds that had a purpose.. not something you bred because it would be "cute." Irritates me to no end..
Also coming from a (former) groomer, there are no standard cuts on these so called "designer" dogs so grooming them is a total nightmare. They never look like the breeds they are bred for and no matter how long you scissor and fluff they never look breed specific. It's just not possible. Some breed coats are just not meant to be co-bred. This mix of a st. bernard and a poodle is a prime example. I would dred having to maintain that coat on a daily basis. What a mess.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by katethegreyt View Post
All good points.

I have little problem with knowledgeable people very rarely breeding a unique cross for a specific purpose (as examples: there are some common crosses in certain areas for people that are very avid hunters - I'm thinking of some of the sighthound crosses like lurchers; or the guy who originally thought of a lab/poodle cross to try to create a hypoallergenic guide dog, etc). However, the people doing this usually breed very very rarely, use proven working stock, and have a very specific purpose in mind besides "cuteness." These pups have homes before the breeding even takes place, and the future owners are not blindly purchasing because of a trendy or cute factor. I know some sighthound people who would love to own some of these nice crosses, but it's almost impossible to find one because the breeders almost never breed and have all the potential puppies placed before the thought of breeding even comes up.

An important thing to keep in mind with almost ALL "designer" breeds these days: they are nearly always a cross between two different breeds forever and ever and ever (poodle to lab, poodle to golden, poodle to yorkie, etc.) Because you are not breeding the resulting offspring that makeup these "breeds," you have very little predictability from individual to individual (why they don't count as "breeds" in my mind, just crosses with specific names). There is no final goal for these "breeds" or any gradual refining of traits or characteristics. So a labradoodle or any doodle can look like a completely different type of dog than its litter mates.

In the horse world, breed crossings aren't all that uncommon in disciplines where the breed doesn't matter. In fact, many of the top sport horses (dressage, jumping, eventing) come from registries in Europe that breed for a type and have relatively open stud books (offspring and parents must be approved by the registry in order to carry a certain registry's brand). Crosses in the horse world can still be just as stupid (and "greeders" are not uncommon), but thankfully horses only have one at a time...

It's also worth reiterating that a huge problem with designer breeds is that most of the breeding stock being used for these mass produced crosses are animals that are pet quality at absolute best (and walking conformation, health, and disposition nightmares at worst)... No quality breeder would let their dogs get into the hands of a designer breeder. So, as RFR said, it's just BYB to BYB to BYB to BYB...

If someone can thoughtfully "design" a new breed from excellent stock and then is extremely selective about the human participants in the developing breed, that might be something to consider. Still, there are SO many breeds out there already that it seems like you should be able to find something that suits your fancy = )

In that vein, one recently developed sighthound breed (not recognized by the AKC or anything though) that is quite low in numbers (not filling the shelters and such) is the Silken Windhound. Even though the breed appears to be pretty carefully managed and the owners rave about them (usually people who own other sighthounds), these types of breeding activities still create controversy in a world with such a huge overpopulation problem.

Yeah, I nearly mentioned the crosses that go on in the horse world, had one myself for many many years, and if done thoughtfully, with good stock, a vision in mind, and to fulfill a specific purpose, the end result can be great.

Again, just to reiterate (and you made this point as well), nearly none of this "designer dog" crap has any purpose, other than to satisfy some cretin's need to "breed her to see what she throws," and to make money, sometimes a pitifully small amount is more than enough incentive.

And the puppies who result? Usually great for sitting around in their owner's laps, snarling and shaking, because they have bad temperaments to begin with and weren't socialized to mitigate that. Oh, and peeing on everything, they are usually champs at that.

(But, at least I'm not bitter about the whole thing.)
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Weren't dobes and all dogs for that matter that have been designed for a purpose refined to a point that they resemble the initial breed very little? I mean...there's 2 ways to look at everything, not saying I disagree with you guys, just sayin...


Look at the original pics of a dobe and see what it's been refined to, or a GSD for that matter. I mean they've bred out a lot of the original traits/looks/temperament so it coexists with their/our life style. I mean when Karl F.L. Doberman "designed" the dobe, GSD breeders, Rotty breeders etc probably thought the same thing.
These dogs were "designed" for a specific purpose, not just to make money. Labradoodles and all these other crosses are not being bred to serve a purpose, except line the pockets of those breeding them. She me a new line of super duty working dogs, or super scent dogs, top notch protection dogs, or something like that, MAYBE I'll have a different opinion. But breeding 2 dogs because you own them, or simply because people will buy them is nothing more than being a byb.

Even then, I would expect the same things just like any other breeder. What is this breeding accomplishing, and what makes both dogs worthy of being bred together. How has this breeder proven the dogs being bred, etc. I'd still most likely not support this type of breeding, in any way at all. I had someone ask me for a labradoodle reference, and looking for a "good" breeder, I told them sorry, no such thing lol.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Can't imagine that Herr Dobermann was walking around the city of Apolda thinking of a way to scam people out of money by throwing a bunch of dogs together to make a new "designer" breed.

Purpose, function, intelligence- I'm pretty sure Herr Dobermann had this in mind when creating the Dobermann.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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That was a long time ago.

We did not have the rampant pet overpopulation problem back then.
Yes. People were more responsible then, and responsible dog husbandry included taking sacks of puppies to the river.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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When she said it's a "bernoodle" I would have just immediately said "Oh, a mutt."

Then they usually say something about it being a cross between this and that, and I say "oh, a mutt."

Then they usually say something more about it, and I say a little more forcefully "you mean a mutt."

They usually get the idea by then that I'm not backing off that it's nothing more than a mutt.
LMAO - this is PRECISELY the approach I take.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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List of "Designer" Dogs

The so called Dobie-Basset is enough to make my eyes bleed, I mean really why do people feel the need to give mutts a specific name? Oh yes to make more money off their poor breeding! Yay....
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
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That's why I kept saying I'm getting a Dobe puppy from a reputable breeder
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:25 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Yes. People were more responsible then, and responsible dog husbandry included taking sacks of puppies to the river.

I made no reference as to *why* there was not a pet overpopulation problem back then, so I'm not sure what the purpose of your post is.

Btw, irresponsible people still do take sacks of puppies and kittens to the river.

Responsible people spay, neuter, or carefully manage their animals' reproductive life.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:53 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I'm of the opinion that mixed dogs are perfectly fine. They're often times beautiful and wonderful pets. I think the real issue people have are people selling these mixed dogs as 'designer dogs' for thousands of dollars! Seriously, I've seen 'maltipoos' etc go for over a thousand dollars! And people actually /buy/ these dogs at that price! Its a real issue when there are hundreds of thousand of absolutely wonderful dogs being shoved into kennels at pounds and euthanized because no one wants them.

But as soon as you attach a tag such as 'Labradoodle' and 'Maltipoo' Everyone wants one!

Yeah.. and I got a bridge to sell them too..
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:33 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I made no reference as to *why* there was not a pet overpopulation problem back then, so I'm not sure what the purpose of your post is.
It was a sideways suggestion that I suspect that your original statement was incorrect. Without clarification (globally? in the industrialized nations? in Germany [since we were talking about Herr Dobermann]? in the U.S.?), it is not really debatable, and I also suspect that not much data is available.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:28 PM   #24 (permalink)
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It was a sideways suggestion that I suspect that your original statement was incorrect. Without clarification (globally? in the industrialized nations? in Germany [since we were talking about Herr Dobermann]? in the U.S.?), it is not really debatable, and I also suspect that not much data is available.

I doubt the taxpayers back then paid for that trip to the river.
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:27 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I doubt the taxpayers back then paid for that trip to the river.
While that is, obviously, technically correct, now it is I who is not sure what the purpose of your post is.

Are you saying that whether or not an excessive number of unwanted pets would be considered a "rampant pet overpopulation problem" depends on the mechanism by which the surplus is disposed, and in what way that is funded? There WERE dog pounds back then (Herr Dobermann was a dogcatcher, remember?), taxpayer funded, with the sole function of collecting and killing dogs. Animal control still falls under the jurisdiction of the health department because that's where it was originally placed... homeless/stray/roving dogs were a public health threat.

I suspect that the pet overpopulation issue is a fraction of what it has historically been... it certainly is a fraction of what it was only forty years ago. I also suspect that the creation of "designer" mixed-breed dogs has squat to do with overpopulation. Do you think that anyone decides to acquire a dog because there is a "Labradoodle" or a "Maltipoo"? Do you not think that if those did not exist, enterprising individuals out to make a buck would not be breeding poor quality something?
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