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post #1 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-19-2011, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
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anyone here knows Backbone Kennel?

Hello everyone,



anyone here knows Fernando Soler from backbone kennel? I think they are from argentina...


They just amazed me of their doberman breeds and with the topline Peds.Cambria's line is so damn good.









AWESOMENESS

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post #2 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-19-2011, 07:56 PM
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Overall I am not a fan of the South Am type. I feal they are a bit over done in thier fronts and rears. Just a personal opinion on type. Also Cambria has had some nice dogs in the past, but it is all a matter of opinion. I dont feal that Cambria is the be all end all of bloodlines.

The pedigree you posted seems like a OK one. I would research back to find out the health of each dog and what they died of and how old. Also what testing has been done on the parents?



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post #3 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-21-2011, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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Yup...It's your opinion..I won't argue with that...but for me american and European line doberman is okay as long as its healthy,well maintained body and good titles ( "The Fact that they belong to the DOBERMAN breed"). Got to say that large chested doberman seems just catches my attention and I think every doberman should have one. gives more masculinity to the looks of the breed mr.muscle LOL...I just appreciate their pedigree lines and achievements..and please do update your search for me regarding the health issues of the lines and if you can provide the links the better thanks a bunch...and if you can also provide your peds so that we can see how good your line peds is I am just curious about it since you brought it up...I am curious because there are cambrias line (PH. HOF. Cambria's Four Star,Am. Ch. Cambria's Cactus Cash) in the peds of my Medusa ..


p.s.


Sorry for my bad english...I am not from america.

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post #4 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-21-2011, 12:44 PM
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Lol honestly sometimes I would be surprised if Eddie (Cactus Cash) WASN'T in a pedigree! Some studs have been used too much.

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post #5 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-21-2011, 03:26 PM
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My prefered type would have to be Foxfire/Eastwick/Gallant/Ciden lines. Some of thier dogs do have the occaional South American dog in them, but I like the type. Of course everyone have a preferance. I feal the Doberman should be a moderate dog and not overdone in anyway.



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post #6 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 02:54 AM Thread Starter
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Hello JennSLK....Can you post some of the peds of the Foxfire/Eastwick/Gallant/Ciden?
I am sorry....I am just a newbie when it comes to pedigree good lines...I am just learning...Thank you for the knowledge..

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post #7 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 11:52 AM
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For the record that pedigree you posted is not correct. The dam of Am Ch Foxfire's Ain't That Right is actually Am Ch Foxfire's Ain't That Enough. And Am Ch Foxfire's Ain't That Right is also a Canadian champion as well. His sire is Ch Cambria's Highly Regarded. Also the sire of Am Ch Foxfire's Ain't That Enough is an American and Canadian champion (Am Can Ch Wrath's Dance With The Devil).

I own his litter brother (Ch Foxfire's Ain't That The Truth BN CD RE OA AXJ CGC ROM) and you can check out pedigrees at Dobequest.org.

I think there is a fine line between an overdone forechest and one that is eye catching. And take another look at the picture you posted of the male on the podium--his topline is not his best feature--even stacked it's clearly somewhat soft at the loin. And all three pictures show Dobes with WAAAAY too much rear angulation--it does not match the front angulation and I'd really like to see the males move (is it the same dog or two different dogs) because they way they are stacked makes it look like they are sickle hocked which isn't usually true of the SA dogs.

The bitch is less extreme in the rear than the males--a much better look.

As a dyed in the wool head hunter I'm very fond of the heads that most of the SA dogs have.

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post #8 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-26-2011, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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NGOK! i just copy the image on their facebook account.

Andrea Paiva Fernando Soler | Facebook

I am not making any peds on my own..the owner of the backbone kennel is the one who put it their on the account..anyways..i love their dobermans....i just appreciate their looks....there are some people out there who also talks too much but looking on their pedigree lacks some titles..LOLz.

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post #9 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 12:35 AM
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So the male in the 2nd pic was WD at the Nationals....

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post #10 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 09:44 AM
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I can take the front end of those dogs a lot better than the rear. Enough rear for 2 dogs.

More is not better and definately not correct.
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post #11 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 11:05 AM
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post #12 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 11:56 AM
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this is the owner, or breeder.. of the WD at the nationals.

RWD was also a South American bred dog from Akido San kennels, same as Alex de Akido San.

something clever goes here.
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post #13 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
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this is the owner, or breeder.. of the WD at the nationals.

RWD was also a South American bred dog from Akido San kennels, same as Alex de Akido San.
Are you saying the OP of this thread is the kennel owner/owner of the dogs pictured?

If so, talk about blowing the DT "no self-promotion" rule straight outta the water...

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post #14 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
Are you saying the OP of this thread is the kennel owner/owner of the dogs pictured?

If so, talk about blowing the DT "no self-promotion" rule straight outta the water...
Backbone is the owner or breeder of the WD, not the OP (unless that is WHO OP IS) Link to WD

Rodogard's Arg Gambler Ghost

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post #15 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adara View Post
Backbone is the owner or breeder of the WD, not the OP (unless that is WHO OP IS) Link to WD

Rodogard's Arg Gambler Ghost
Right, thanks, I understood Backbone was the breeder of WD, what I was asking is who the OP of the thread is, and do they have any business connection, etc, etc, as their thread really reads like a marketing ploy, and possibly the breeder themselves posting.

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post #16 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 05:21 PM
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Wow, just looked at your link, Adara.

Erm, I really hate to critique anyone's dog, pet or finished Champion, but since this dog's posted publicly and presumably up for discussion, then...wow.

WD, huh?

I do really like his head and some other things about him, but that weak loin and that rear. Wow.



I wonder what happened to square, athletic, balanced structure?

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post #17 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
Wow, just looked at your link, Adara.

Erm, I really hate to critique anyone's dog, pet or finished Champion, but since this dog's posted publicly and presumably up for discussion, then...wow.

WD, huh?

I do really like his head and some other things about him, but that weak loin and that rear. Wow.



I wonder what happened to square, athletic, balanced structure?
Yes, you aren't the only one to notice. On my way too many dog lists it's the "talk of the day" right now. This is a link to WD judging that shows the other dogs also
DPCA 2011 WINNERS DOG Streaming Video

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post #18 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 05:57 PM
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I am not very well versed in conformation so would anyone mind telling me what it means that there is too much rear and weak loin? Just curious
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post #19 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 06:10 PM
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Neck/Top/Body


Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanda203 View Post
I am not very well versed in conformation so would anyone mind telling me what it means that there is too much rear and weak loin? Just curious

Reputable Breeder Checklist: Here
DPCA: Here
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post #20 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
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I am not very well versed in conformation so would anyone mind telling me what it means that there is too much rear and weak loin? Just curious
There is too much angle in the rear and length. It kind if resembles a GSD rear. The post above mine shows the correct angle. The hocks shouldn't be so far behind a dog when stacked NOR underneath them ewhen they move.

The length of loin (vs a square dog) makes it a weaker loin. We should have a shortbacked breed.

This is my first Dobe so feel free to pick away He was not perfect. He had a nice rear assembly and was short-backed


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post #21 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 06:39 PM
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sorry, i meant Backbone Kennels is the owner and/or breeder of the WD at the nationals.

thanks Adara.

something clever goes here.
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post #22 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adara View Post
There is too much angle in the rear and length. It kind if resembles a GSD rear.
I was trying to pinpoint what looked so familiar about the rear and I totally agree it's a bit show-line GSDish.

Can a dog with an exaggerated rear move correctly?
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post #23 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RottenVonSpotten View Post
I was trying to pinpoint what looked so familiar about the rear and I totally agree it's a bit show-line GSDish.

Can a dog with an exaggerated rear move correctly?
They shouldn't be able to. So many things factor into movement. This site explains correct movement

"Doberman Pinscher Club of America (DPCA) Judges Education"

It also lists things that will happen with certain faults. That particular dog to me looked like it was either sickle hocked or moved "on the hocks" I don't know it was overdone and sickle hocked or not from the views.

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post #24 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adara View Post
They shouldn't be able to. So many things factor into movement. This site explains correct movement

"Doberman Pinscher Club of America (DPCA) Judges Education"

It also lists things that will happen with certain faults. That particular dog to me looked like it was either sickle hocked or moved "on the hocks" I don't know it was overdone and sickle hocked or not from the views.
That dog is incredibly sickle hocked.
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post #25 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-07-2011, 08:51 PM
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