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anyone here knows Backbone Kennel?

15K views 103 replies 33 participants last post by  RODOGARDS 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello everyone,



anyone here knows Fernando Soler from backbone kennel? I think they are from argentina...


They just amazed me of their doberman breeds and with the topline Peds.Cambria's line is so damn good.









AWESOMENESS :)
 
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#2 ·
Overall I am not a fan of the South Am type. I feal they are a bit over done in thier fronts and rears. Just a personal opinion on type. Also Cambria has had some nice dogs in the past, but it is all a matter of opinion. I dont feal that Cambria is the be all end all of bloodlines.

The pedigree you posted seems like a OK one. I would research back to find out the health of each dog and what they died of and how old. Also what testing has been done on the parents?
 
#3 · (Edited)
Yup...It's your opinion..I won't argue with that...but for me american and European line doberman is okay as long as its healthy,well maintained body and good titles ( "The Fact that they belong to the DOBERMAN breed"). Got to say that large chested doberman seems just catches my attention and I think every doberman should have one. :) gives more masculinity to the looks of the breed :) mr.muscle :) LOL...I just appreciate their pedigree lines and achievements..and please do update your search for me regarding the health issues of the lines and if you can provide the links the better :) thanks a bunch...and if you can also provide your peds so that we can see how good your line peds is :) I am just curious about it since you brought it up...I am curious because there are cambrias line (PH. HOF. Cambria's Four Star,Am. Ch. Cambria's Cactus Cash) in the peds of my Medusa ..


p.s.


Sorry for my bad english...I am not from america.
 
#100 · (Edited)
Cambria has some nice dogs, and IMHO I like their stock a lot.... but I have been learning that some of their studs are used excessively... please keep that in mind. Too much is not always a good thing.

And please use this forum as a resource for YOUR own research. Others will point you in the right direction, but you make the ultimate call. Make it a well thought out one, please.

I had no idea this thread was this old when posting a response.
 
#5 ·
My prefered type would have to be Foxfire/Eastwick/Gallant/Ciden lines. Some of thier dogs do have the occaional South American dog in them, but I like the type. Of course everyone have a preferance. I feal the Doberman should be a moderate dog and not overdone in anyway.
 
#7 · (Edited)
For the record that pedigree you posted is not correct. The dam of Am Ch Foxfire's Ain't That Right is actually Am Ch Foxfire's Ain't That Enough. And Am Ch Foxfire's Ain't That Right is also a Canadian champion as well. His sire is Ch Cambria's Highly Regarded. Also the sire of Am Ch Foxfire's Ain't That Enough is an American and Canadian champion (Am Can Ch Wrath's Dance With The Devil).

I own his litter brother (Ch Foxfire's Ain't That The Truth BN CD RE OA AXJ CGC ROM) and you can check out pedigrees at Dobequest.org.

I think there is a fine line between an overdone forechest and one that is eye catching. And take another look at the picture you posted of the male on the podium--his topline is not his best feature--even stacked it's clearly somewhat soft at the loin. And all three pictures show Dobes with WAAAAY too much rear angulation--it does not match the front angulation and I'd really like to see the males move (is it the same dog or two different dogs) because they way they are stacked makes it look like they are sickle hocked which isn't usually true of the SA dogs.

The bitch is less extreme in the rear than the males--a much better look.

As a dyed in the wool head hunter I'm very fond of the heads that most of the SA dogs have.
 
#8 ·
NGOK! :huepfenicon111: i just copy the image on their facebook account.

Andrea Paiva Fernando Soler | Facebook

I am not making any peds on my own..the owner of the backbone kennel is the one who put it their on the account..anyways..i love their dobermans....i just appreciate their looks....there are some people out there who also talks too much but looking on their pedigree lacks some titles..LOLz.
 
#11 ·
Winners dog at the nationals is built that way.
 
#13 ·
Are you saying the OP of this thread is the kennel owner/owner of the dogs pictured?

If so, talk about blowing the DT "no self-promotion" rule straight outta the water...
 
#16 ·
Wow, just looked at your link, Adara.

Erm, I really hate to critique anyone's dog, pet or finished Champion, but since this dog's posted publicly and presumably up for discussion, then...wow.

WD, huh?

I do really like his head and some other things about him, but that weak loin and that rear. Wow.



I wonder what happened to square, athletic, balanced structure?
 
#17 ·
Yes, you aren't the only one to notice. On my way too many dog lists :) it's the "talk of the day" right now. This is a link to WD judging that shows the other dogs also
DPCA 2011 WINNERS DOG Streaming Video
 
#25 ·
Who was the judge that put him up?
 
#26 ·
Mr. Ray Carlisle from Cara Dobermans
 
#27 ·
Could part of it be the way he is stacked? Seems like to me that compared to the pic I looked at of proper conformation his back feet are set back to far which could be the cause of that German Shepherd looking rear? He still seems too thick or something to me but that could be a preference thing. (Again novice opinion)
 
#28 ·
'Fraid not Amanda. The reason his feet are set so far back is because of the incorrect conformation. Too much angle at the stifle (knee) joint, too much angle at the hock and although I couldn't view the streaming video (this computer does not "do" most video) I'd bet that he can't open that hock beyond what you see in the stacked picture. Also too much length in the lower thigh. If his conformation in the rear were even close to correct he'd straighten the whole hock angle out to get his feet that far behind him.

This dogs rear is NOT correct under any Doberman standard. Not ours (AKC) not Canada, not FCI, not English, Australian or any other (can't think if there are others). It's just not right.

Someone earlier asked if a dog with that kind of rear could move correctly. I sure don't think so--that dog is sickle hocked--he can't open up that hock angle to push with his rear--he would have no drive.

Too bad--his front end is rather nice. I don't think he's too "thick" if I understand what you are seeing. I think he's mature and a lot of times if you haven't seen a few mature adult intact males they tend to look different than young dogs--it's about the same sort of difference that you see between a 18 year old boy and a 28 year old man.

But nothing will ever make that rear correct.
 
#29 ·
Thanks for the explanation dobebug! :) I have been looking for a sport dog and I know conformation is important for that so have been trying to get a working understanding for what I am looking at. I think the only reason I see him as thick is because I like a little bit lighter bone (not a lot but I want one for sports and therefore a little lighter is seems better for that to me) and am used to seeing the nuetered adult males that don't get quite so big. Thanks again!
 
#31 ·
Oh my ......I never thought it would end this way....some clarifications and some arguments....I am really sorry guys if some of you are confused..I am not promoting nor telling you that I own this dog nor the backbone kennel too.I just saw their facebook account and just appreciate their doberman line.I'm sorry if its not perfect for you on some angles.I just ask if anyone here knows about the backbone kennel.That is all.and I did not say that the peds on the picture is 100% perfect or whatever.I just saw it also in their account.See it for your self,you can visit there fb page for proof I am not making any stories here nor making some peds on my own.I am a newbie and don't know perfectly how to look at or appreciate a perfect doberman for you.My point here is I just love the looks of they're dogs.I don't think there is something wrong with that..We all have our perception of the breed.I am not a doberman guru and I haven't tried joining a conformation show.I am sorry if my noobie mind cause you confusion and doubt.Like I said...I am just a newbie and learning some things here.Thanks to all the people who understands my opinion and for those who don't I am sorry..
 
#34 ·
Oh my ......I never thought it would end this way....some clarifications and some arguments....I am really sorry guys if some of you are confused..I am not promoting nor telling you that I own this dog nor the backbone kennel too.I just saw their facebook account and just appreciate their doberman line.I'm sorry if its not perfect for you on some angles.I just ask if anyone here knows about the backbone kennel.That is all.and I did not say that the peds on the picture is 100% perfect or whatever.I just saw it also in their account.See it for your self,you can visit there fb page for proof I am not making any stories here nor making some peds on my own.I am a newbie and don't know perfectly how to look at or appreciate a perfect doberman for you.My point here is I just love the looks of they're dogs.I don't think there is something wrong with that..We all have our perception of the breed.I am not a doberman guru and I haven't tried joining a conformation show.I am sorry if my noobie mind cause you confusion and doubt.Like I said...I am just a newbie and learning some things here.Thanks to all the people who understands my opinion and for those who don't I am sorry..
There are people on this thread who've been in dobermans a long LONG time and worth taking a look at every one of their posts. It shouldn't take long to figure out who they are. :)

I think it's very important to try to learn what the standard is vs. what is trendy at the time before you get too imprinted on a certain look that might be way incorrect.
 
#32 ·
WOW!!!

My Kira is from Argentina and Nello's Lex Luther is her Grandfather, he was Black and Rust!!!

It's a small world!!!

Are you thinking of getting a puppy from them?
:kiss:

She is the most lovley creature...
And yes lots of ass...
I'm doing agility training with her, not so much jumping now because she's young but she's so smart and loves...loves to run!!!

xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
 
#37 ·
Um, not to be snotty or anything, but Lex Luthor is in about a gajillion pedigrees, so it's not such a small world after all.

Also, what do you mean, your bitch has "lots of ass"?

Does she also have far too much angulation in her rear?

I hope you have someone experienced in Doberman conformation (or at least in sport dog conformation) who can help you objectively evaluate your girl's structure--that will affect her athleticism and soundness more than you can probably foresee now, with her being so young.

Not to say dogs with bad conformation, or decent conformation with some flaws, can't still do agility, but all that needs to be taken into consideration and in some cases accomodated for, in the dog's training and conditioning program, and in how you run the course with her.
 
#33 ·
OK.....I just watched the streaming video and I am certainly no judge of conformation but the dog that was put up (handler wearing white suit) had a rear that looked off. When he moved his rear looked like he was riding a bicycle. JMO

If anyone has some connection to this dog and is offended I am merely stating my opinion.

I saw two other dogs that I thought were better moving.
 
#35 ·
I saw winners dog and I'm sure he is a nice dog, but he is not to our standard and IMHO there were dogs in that ring that came a lot closer to our ideal than he did. We are told to breed to the standard .... and then stand there and see a dog win that does not even come close.... it is disheartening.
 
#36 ·
I can understand your feelings on this but more so what happens when people run to this dog to breed? After all he won that class at the National. That fault becomes something that is seen for generations to come. It's more than merely a low/high tailset.....it is a structural fault that hampers the dog's working ability. And this is a working breed. I keep thinking about that exaggerated panther pose that isn't just when a german shepherd is stacked but even when it moves.

There were two very nice red dogs in that class that moved well and to my untrained eye looked to be more representative of the standard.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Like, ugh.

My rescue Stormy is from Sire Can/Indian Ch Camee's Beyond Thunderdome and grandsire Can/Int/Jap/Lat/Pan Ch Brz GRCh Charleston Yankee....

Big whoop till some farmer used Camee on his bitch and WHOA, we have dogs coming through rescue with floppy ears, allergies and gopher feet...oh, and owner abandonment


Go figure. Pimp your dogs ancestors all you want, it is meaningless when you breed to crap.
 
#40 ·
I've delt with negitive and rude people like you my whole life. Fortunatly your reply just makes you look.... rude.

I wasn't "pimping" any ancestors at all, I was just giving a responce. I thought this forum was about bringing people closer, learning and discussing one of the same thing Dobermans.

Kira will never be in a shelter and that's really kind of you to rescue stormy. Hopefully with knowing where he came from he brings you many years of happiness. With all the tiltles his parents have I would think he has great genitics and a strong, healthy body free from silent health problems. I also hope that whatever he went threw to end up in a shelter has been erased by the love you have given him.
 
#43 ·
Ok, not commenting on all the clearly personal opinions here. Just a dobe lover, not a breeder, never gonna be. But can someone with more "insider" info in the conformation world please tell me if this is indicative of a trend to the GSD look being favored in the show ring these days? Why would we want to do this? I'm aure we have all seen what that did to those dogs. The show GSDs could NEVER be working dogs. Why would we repeat those mistakes?
 
#44 · (Edited)
Ok, not commenting on all the clearly personal opinions here. Just a dobe lover, not a breeder, never gonna be. But can someone with more "insider" info in the conformation world please tell me if this is indicative of a trend to the GSD look being favored in the show ring these days? Why would we want to do this? I'm aure we have all seen what that did to those dogs. The show GSDs could NEVER be working dogs. Why would we repeat those mistakes?
It just goes to show there is some kind of zeitgeist that happens in show dog world that people with such reputations would put something like that up. It looks like two different dogs were c/pasted together.

I really REALLY REALLY wish the Freakonomics guys would take on dog world to get inside how iconic people who purport to be stewards of standard can and do go off the rails, little by little, until decades later a breed is unrecognizable and damned unhealthy on top of it.
 
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