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Old 08-22-2011, 11:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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hi all.
my friend's female just gave birth to only 2 puppies yesterday.is this normal?
as i heard that doberman give birth to 8-10puppies and the breed average is 8.this is the first time my male was mated and it was accidental not planned.her previous litter had only 3 puppies.what do u experts say.is this normal or should i consider a vet ?
please rply
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
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oh lord ...!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:03 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Two is a small litter, but not abnormal. To be safe, a vet visit is probably in order to be certain that there are not more puppies and to make sure that all is well with the dam and the pups. Better safe than sorry...
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
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If you can take her and the two pups to a vet please do so she may have more pups better to be safe then sorry.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suhail View Post
hi all.
my friend's female just gave birth to only 2 puppies yesterday.is this normal?
as i heard that doberman give birth to 8-10puppies and the breed average is 8.this is the first time my male was mated and it was accidental not planned.her previous litter had only 3 puppies.what do u experts say.is this normal or should i consider a vet ?
please rply
First of all, how long was it between having these puppies? Secondly how old is she? How old is the sire? Did you do ovulation time tests? Maybe nature is telling you something! and.....
(now this is my opinion, and I express my opinions openly and honestly, if I feel it is relevant!) Never say an "accidental breeding", I say "a careless owner" or an owner that was not diligent....when they know their bitch is in season, and do not want puppies, and there is a male on the premises, then they take steps to make sure the two are not be exposed to each other for a minimum of 3 wks! I am not saying it can't happen,....... but most of the time it IS planned, but the owner won't admit it.
After all the bitch can only conceive for a certain period of time around ovulation, and alot of times when there is small litters, it depends on how many viable eggs there are at the time the sperm are looking and are viable themselves!! The eggs can only survive once mature for 24 to 48 hrs, but the sperm can live up to 7 days in the uterus...
And sometimes, now I say SOMETIMES.. it is Murphys Law....byb's have tons of puppies out of untitled, unhealth tested parents without ever doing anything with the parents, but someone that spends a fortune on a valuable, quality bitch has small litters, dead puppies, or none at all!! Go figure!!
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:19 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Note: this is in India.
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:32 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
Note: this is in India.
So?! If they are coming on here and asking questions, they will get answers that are pertinent to their question from people on this forum....

India, Russia, timbuktoo.....they should still have basic common knowledge when they are breeding animals...and they DO have Dobes that are shown in India...
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
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In general, the rest of the world views dogs simply as animals, not as pets, not as members of the family, not as friends, etc. They are just animals. So regardless of our personal opinions, and whether it's right or wrong, that needs to be taken into account when answering someone from out of the country. Majority of the world would think your average person on this site was an idiot for treating our dogs the way we do. Much of the world, dogs don't go in the house, because they are animals. Sleep in the bed? lol... They are lucky if they have a small patch of grass outside to call their home.

I try to take these things into account when talking to people outside america, and especially in certain countries. Yes, we would think the practices of others is inhumane, ridiculous, absurd, and hateful. If you think about it, it's not much different than your average Indian would think of your average American eating a hamburger, or steak, etc. , as they follow a largely vegetarian diet and hold the cow in very high regards. If you eat a hamburger, does this mean you're and awfull person, and need a lecture about why you shouldn't eat a sacred animal? As Americans, no. And you wouldn't want them talking to you like that.
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Kevin, I don't disagree with you about cultural differences. But I don't see this as being relevant on this particular thread.

"Accidental" breeding is accidental breeding, no matter where it occurs. If people are going to have intact animals, they need to know how to manage them. I don't know if the friend who owns the bitch lives with the OP, but if they don't=why was an intact male even allowed near the intact bitch in season to begin with? IOW-ooops breedings do happen now and then to the best of people, but it's certainly more understandable if the dogs live in the same house. Pretty hard to call it an accident when two dogs who don't live together are involved....

I'm not really sure what the OP actually wants help with-are they concerned about the bitch herself, questioning her safety or fertility? Or are they concerned about their male's fertility?
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I was responding to the 2 posts directly above mine.
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It sounds to me that the OP really hasn't much experience and hasn't a clue. Was it a mistake? yes, due to lack of knowledge (ignorance - but this word creates antagonism). The OP is probably worried that there may be more puppies in the mom? Yes, suhail, you should take the mom and pups to the vet and make sure they are all OK. Also, read up on this forum and you can learn a lot and help spread some of the ideas/opinions on this forum to your friends.
I personally think Kevin's post is very relevant. If DT wants to have a positive global impact on Dobermans, members have to take a look at whether the poster is a troll or if the poster is someone halfway around the world trying to reach out for information. If we are more careful in how we word our responses to those who are actually asking for help and advice, we will have helped the entire Doberman world community.
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmctaq View Post
Two is a small litter, but not abnormal. To be safe, a vet visit is probably in order to be certain that there are not more puppies and to make sure that all is well with the dam and the pups. Better safe than sorry...
This! It could be fine but it's possible the mother might also have a pup "stuck" so a vet visit is not a bad idea.



Also, you might want to encourage your friend to have her bitch spayed if possible, (especially since this is her second accident and it looks like she may have this concern every time!) or else keep her bitch confined securely away from male dogs when she's in heat.


Best of luck to you and her both!
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Old 08-23-2011, 05:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Yes, you should both consider a vet. Both of these dogs need to be fixed so they can't breed anymore.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
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As for my post: I was just saying what Kevin said. They don't see things as we do. I doubt they'll take our advice for fixing.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:31 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retta View Post
So?! If they are coming on here and asking questions, they will get answers that are pertinent to their question from people on this forum....

India, Russia, timbuktoo.....they should still have basic common knowledge when they are breeding animals...and they DO have Dobes that are shown in India...
yes,you are right .india has many doberman which are shown.it has many inoirts from america ,argentina and europe.my male is grandson of kevin de akidosan.

Last edited by suhail; 08-23-2011 at 10:43 PM.. Reason: spelling misakes
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:34 PM   #16 (permalink)
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now you have given a short little wrong description of india and indians.....i am not here to argue with any one.i find this forum very helpfull and asked a question to you people.but instead of answering you started talking about inid a nd america????
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:36 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audrey1 View Post
It sounds to me that the OP really hasn't much experience and hasn't a clue. Was it a mistake? yes, due to lack of knowledge (ignorance - but this word creates antagonism). The OP is probably worried that there may be more puppies in the mom? Yes, suhail, you should take the mom and pups to the vet and make sure they are all OK. Also, read up on this forum and you can learn a lot and help spread some of the ideas/opinions on this forum to your friends.
I personally think Kevin's post is very relevant. If DT wants to have a positive global impact on Dobermans, members have to take a look at whether the poster is a troll or if the poster is someone halfway around the world trying to reach out for information. If we are more careful in how we word our responses to those who are actually asking for help and advice, we will have helped the entire Doberman world community.
thanks audrey....now that was helpfull..i will surely talk to my vet
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:43 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Murreydobe View Post
Kevin, I don't disagree with you about cultural differences. But I don't see this as being relevant on this particular thread.

"Accidental" breeding is accidental breeding, no matter where it occurs. If people are going to have intact animals, they need to know how to manage them. I don't know if the friend who owns the bitch lives with the OP, but if they don't=why was an intact male even allowed near the intact bitch in season to begin with? IOW-ooops breedings do happen now and then to the best of people, but it's certainly more understandable if the dogs live in the same house. Pretty hard to call it an accident when two dogs who don't live together are involved....

I'm not really sure what the OP actually wants help with-are they concerned about the bitch herself, questioning her safety or fertility? Or are they concerned about their male's fertility?
now listen murreydobe..i seek help from you people.the breeding was not at all planned.but they did mate.the dogs dont live in the same house but meet every night for playing in the yard.we leave them together to play and have a cu of tea in the house.the same thing happened that day,but we were shocked to see both of them mating and were locked.
i am concerned about the bitch...because i never heard any dobe giving birth to only 2 pups.is she safe or she is having someting stuck and look for
a vet?
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
As for my post: I was just saying what Kevin said. They don't see things as we do. I doubt they'll take our advice for fixing.
i would definetly implement on the advice given by you people
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:49 PM   #20 (permalink)
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In general, the rest of the world views dogs simply as animals, not as pets, not as members of the family, not as friends, etc. They are just animals. So regardless of our personal opinions, and whether it's right or wrong, that needs to be taken into account when answering someone from out of the country. Majority of the world would think your average person on this site was an idiot for treating our dogs the way we do. Much of the world, dogs don't go in the house, because they are animals. Sleep in the bed? lol... They are lucky if they have a small patch of grass outside to call their home.

I try to take these things into account when talking to people outside america, and especially in certain countries. Yes, we would think the practices of others is inhumane, ridiculous, absurd, and hateful. If you think about it, it's not much different than your average Indian would think of your average American eating a hamburger, or steak, etc. , as they follow a largely vegetarian diet and hold the cow in very high regards. If you eat a hamburger, does this mean you're and awfull person, and need a lecture about why you shouldn't eat a sacred animal? As Americans, no. And you wouldn't want them talking to you like that.
my dog has a bed.he sleeps inside the house.he is shown.he has cc's here in india.he comes from a responsible breeder in india.and one more thing kevin...only hindu indians are vegetarian and they have a very high place for cows in society.you know very little about india and just seeing the name of the country you cant conclude how the dog is treated.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:52 PM   #21 (permalink)
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i am concerned about the bitch...because i never heard any dobe giving birth to only 2 pups.is she safe or she is having someting stuck and look for
a vet?
To be honest, real concern would be shown by going to a vet, rather than getting on the internet and wasting time in what could be a critical situation.

You really didn't give enough information for strangers to answer on the internet. You didn't say if the bitch was in distress or still in labour, for instance. I would assume she wasn't or you may have mentioned it.

I've had 3 litters where only 2 puppies were born. It happens. As you said, she only had 3 puppies last time. Maybe she's not very fertile.

However, I certainly hope that her owner will become more educated about seasons/cycles and stop bringing her around males when she's in season. How can one NOT notice? She was bleeding for several days before the mating, and you said they play together every night. Someone should have noticed.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:59 PM   #22 (permalink)
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To be honest, real concern would be shown by going to a vet, rather than getting on the internet and wasting time in what could be a critical situation.

You really didn't give enough information for strangers to answer on the internet. You didn't say if the bitch was in distress or still in labour, for instance. I would assume she wasn't or you may have mentioned it.

I've had 3 litters where only 2 puppies were born. It happens. As you said, she only had 3 puppies last time. Maybe she's not very fertile.

However, I certainly hope that her owner will become more educated about seasons/cycles and stop bringing her around males when she's in season. How can one NOT notice? She was bleeding for several days before the mating, and you said they play together every night. Someone should have noticed.
yes some one should have noticed ,but no one noticed.the vet visited her just after posting a thread here,the vet said she is healthy and the pups are also healthy.she had only two pups in this litter nad no need to worry.i started a thread here because i thought these people here have great information about these things.thanks for all your help..the female is healthy now.
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
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If the female lives inside, sleeps in the bed, you did not notice the blood spots all over everything?

I cannot stand my girl in bed with me when she's in season...uck!
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:07 AM   #24 (permalink)
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If the female lives inside, sleeps in the bed, you did not notice the blood spots all over everything?

I cannot stand my girl in bed with me when she's in season...uck!
Not that it is either here or there, but I believe that the OP said that he owns the male and that his dog has a bed in the house not that his dog slept in his bed. I don't think anything has been stated about the living or sleeping arrangements of the female.
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:41 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I have a chihuahua here in season at the moment and the amount of leakage she has going on has been utterly impossible not to notice! The female belongs to the OP's friend, it seems the worry is about the suitability of such small numbers of pups being produced.

Fertility goes both ways, the male can only fertilise the number of eggs released by the bitch, but also low sperm count or poor mobility could be a factor. Either way, if your friend can't even recognize a season, its very indicative that both of these dogs should be neutered/spayed and enjoyed as pets. There's so much responsibility involved with breeding.
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