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Old 11-25-2012, 02:52 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Jerry please provide pictures of a non "trailer hitch tailed, mule ear'd, gazelle necked" utilitarian dobe?

Out of curiosity, what makes ears mule ears? Just being cropped, or a long crop? And you prefer a rottie tail on a Doberman for "working" purposes, or a natural tail? I'm not understanding your post. Is this the millionth anti C/D rant on this website? If so, I think you win a prize or something.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:12 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I can if you like.
























I think this what jerry is referring to:











I am offering no opinions on which is better just providing contrast images for other people to peruse.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:55 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Wth does ear length have to do with bite work/performance/obedience? Please enlighten me, Jerry.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:44 AM   #29 (permalink)
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eta: Jerry, this breed sounds better suited for what you're looking for look-wise. Football player cobby body, little ears, and just a rump.

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Old 11-25-2012, 08:49 AM   #30 (permalink)
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This question is somewhat mute here and in the UK, we can't dock anymore.

Personally I am becoming used to seeing Dobes with tails and I have to admit, I like them.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:10 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I can if you like.

I think this what jerry is referring to:
A bunch of pictures of random dogs that neither of you knows anything about their ability to be "utilitarian"?
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:14 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JerryDog View Post
....Those "trailer hitch" tails, gazelle necks and mule ears all make for a "purdy" show dog, but they SCREAM "not a working dog". .....

Jerry, Eva & Spock take issue with your viewpoint. They work very hard- at mooching and protecting our family from many dangers....



Eva says her "gazelle neck" is perfect for table surfing...



Spock says his "mule ears" protect us all from surprise squirrel attacks....



Eva needs her "trailer hitch tail" to wag rapidly when playing with Spock....



...and to tuck under her when down- to protect her private parts!



(Above comments and pictures meant to be humorous and not to besmirch the proud working doberman breed, breeders or their owners)
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:10 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeldaRules View Post
Wth does ear length have to do with bite work/performance/obedience? Please enlighten me, Jerry.
http://www.dobermantalk.com/959307-post22.html

Murreydobe

Few Dobes have a head good enough for a really short crop.

Medium, long crops mask a lot of head imperfections.

Trickle down effect ears, head and neck. A good head would be important for bitework, maybe not for performance or obedience.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:23 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryDog View Post
mule ears make for a "purdy" show dog, but they SCREAM "not a working dog".

The doberman is supposed to be... a utilitarian breed. He should look the part!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dictator View Post
http://www.dobermantalk.com/959307-post22.html

Murreydobe

Few Dobes have a head good enough for a really short crop.

Medium, long crops mask a lot of head imperfections.

Trickle down effect ears, head and neck. A good head would be important for bitework, maybe not for performance or obedience.
Except Jerry's post was insulting the aesthetics of a long crops and not relating to conformation. Kinda like a pretty girl can't work on a car analogy...
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:06 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeldaRules View Post
Except Jerry's post was insulting the aesthetics of a long crops and not relating to conformation. Kinda like a pretty girl can't work on a car analogy...
I didn't read it that way I took it as overall confirmation which if long/medium crops hide head imperfections that applys.

Of course pretty girls could work on cars I doubt many of them do unless, they don't mind heavy physical labor and getting "very" dirty. Whenever I've taken my car in to be worked on I've never seen a pretty girl or any girls that worked on cars at a Dealer or Shop. Could be you have though.

Personally I prefer a good head and a shorter crop hence my ID Dictator for Champion Dictator v Glenhugel not just for the head & ears though it was his overall look.
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:13 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dictator View Post
Whenever I've taken my car in to be worked on I've never seen a pretty girl or any girls that worked on cars at a Dealer or Shop.
Haha this made me laugh !!
I've worked in the car industry all my life and was a senior service manager for Mercedes Benz for years ... I hope I was pretty !! Lol.
Sorry don't want to get involved in politics just thought I'd bring in a bit of humour. 😉




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Old 11-25-2012, 01:20 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Dobes View Post
Haha this made me laugh !!
I've worked in the car industry all my life and was a senior service manager for Mercedes Benz for years ... I hope I was pretty !! Lol.
Sorry don't want to get involved in politics just thought I'd bring in a bit of humour. ��




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Cool

I have met Women who were Service Managers but not any that were Mechanics.
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:25 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Sorry I'm not getting involved.

But I've worked on cars all my life. My parents ran their own business in the uk. Mechanics are in the blood lol.😄


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Old 11-25-2012, 01:25 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:24 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Errr, so where do all natural Dobes come into this? I've seen loads of all natural working dobes, they have even longer tails than the too-long docks, and I'm willing to bet they work just as well as a Dobe that had its tail and ears chopped off.
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Old 11-25-2012, 03:02 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Errr, so where do all natural Dobes come into this? I've seen loads of all natural working dobes, they have even longer tails than the too-long docks, and I'm willing to bet they work just as well as a Dobe that had its tail and ears chopped off.
Whether cropped or natural a good head is important.

Just curious since the cropping and docking bans in so many countries have Dobes gone down in popularity which might not be a bad thing although it would limit the gene pool. Not sure but I believe I read that somewhere.

New Zealand still docks doesn't it?
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Old 11-25-2012, 03:17 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Whether cropped or natural a good head is important.

Just curious since the cropping and docking bans in so many countries have Dobes gone down in popularity which might not be a bad thing although it would limit the gene pool. Not sure but I believe I read that somewhere.

New Zealand still docks doesn't it?
Dobes have not been cropped in NZ for a looong time, but yes we can still dock. Dobe popularity has dropped a LOT since the 70's/80's here anyway, I was reading through the numbers of Dobes born every year awhile back and 20 years ago the number was up around 500-700 every year, last year there were 178 born. I believe the breed popularity has dropped in Aussie too, but they can still import docked puppies from NZ, or send their pregnant bitches over here to whelp and have pups docked.

What is quite interesting though, is that there seems to be a few more Dobes in agility homes here now that undocked Dobes are more readily available... I know a vast majority of the agility folk here are not into docking at all. I would love more than anything to see more Dobermans outside of the show ring here, they really are a show breed and nothing else in NZ currently... Hope to change that one day!! For the record, there are no Dobermans in SchH in NZ currently
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Old 11-25-2012, 03:48 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Dobes have not been cropped in NZ for a looong time, but yes we can still dock. Dobe popularity has dropped a LOT since the 70's/80's here anyway, I was reading through the numbers of Dobes born every year awhile back and 20 years ago the number was up around 500-700 every year, last year there were 178 born. I believe the breed popularity has dropped in Aussie too, but they can still import docked puppies from NZ, or send their pregnant bitches over here to whelp and have pups docked.

What is quite interesting though, is that there seems to be a few more Dobes in agility homes here now that undocked Dobes are more readily available... I know a vast majority of the agility folk here are not into docking at all. I would love more than anything to see more Dobermans outside of the show ring here, they really are a show breed and nothing else in NZ currently... Hope to change that one day!! For the record, there are no Dobermans in SchH in NZ currently
That's really interesting. I wonder if there's a measurable difference in the agility performance of a docked Doberman vs. a natural Doberman, and how one would effectively measure that. I mean, it could be a preference thing in general, not a performance thing. It's just what I thought of when I read that.
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Old 11-25-2012, 03:54 PM   #44 (permalink)
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In 20/30 years there will probably no longer be cropped/docked Dobes in the US due to Vets no longer doing it.

Did Dobermann registrations start going down after the cropping ban?
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:24 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Sorry meant to say did Doberman Registrations start going down in New Zealand after the cropping ban?
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:10 PM   #46 (permalink)
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A bunch of pictures of random dogs that neither of you knows anything about their ability to be "utilitarian"?
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I can if you like.


Bingo Von ellendonk SchH 3, IPO 3, FH ADPr


citto von der wudritz IPO 3 (?)

cito




Yago V Ellendonk SchuH 3


Gerra v ellendonk SchuH 3


Castor von der Moorieche SchuH 3 IPO 3


Papin Amatzon SchuH 3, JK 3, HK 3


Iris V Ellendonk SchuH 1


Cant find this one again


Yago Ellendonk SchuH 3


Vintage doberman picture from when they were used for their purpose.




I think this what jerry is referring to:











I am offering no opinions on which is better just providing contrast images for other people to peruse.
I don't know anything about the other ones.

Cropping was to stop people grabbing the ears hence a short crop, the same with the tail.

Like I said I am not giving an opinion either way, my dogs have tails and natural ears, that's how I like it.

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Errr, so where do all natural Dobes come into this? I've seen loads of all natural working dobes, they have even longer tails than the too-long docks, and I'm willing to bet they work just as well as a Dobe that had its tail and ears chopped off.
I concur to an extent, yes in Bitesport, no in real life, the less things an assailant/bad dude(s) can grab the better.



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I think I would be just as scared wither way, lolz.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:23 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Granted, I prefer cropped and docked, but I find it hard to believe that a "bad guy" confronted with a mouthful of Doberman coming at him is going to think of grabbing the dog's tail....
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:11 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Granted, I prefer cropped and docked, but I find it hard to believe that a "bad guy" confronted with a mouthful of Doberman coming at him is going to think of grabbing the dog's tail....
Especially if the two "preferred" breeds, GSD and Mal, both have longer fur, more "ear", and an actual tail to grab... Something doesn't quite add up there.

That said, while I wouldn't crop/dock if it were my own choice, I do personally believe doberman simply look better when cropped/docked.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:29 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:30 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Especially if the two "preferred" breeds, GSD and Mal, both have longer fur, more "ear", and an actual tail to grab... Something doesn't quite add up there.

That said, while I wouldn't crop/dock if it were my own choice, I do personally believe doberman simply look better when cropped/docked.
Ah but the GSDs and mals (although have retained greater working ability nowadays in these fields) were not originally created for personal protection. Shepherds were, well shepherds, and bred for herding. Being a personal protection dog was never in its breed description.

Not that I'm agreeing to the thought process of the tail 'getting in the way', but those two other breeds were not bred specifically for personal protection.
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