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Old 11-05-2012, 10:17 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgsdluver View Post
It's a safer way to pay, I personally wouldn't accept check.
I also thing that people like the option to make payments with CC. It doesn't necessarily mean they cannot care for the animal. It's a method of payment. Everyone uses what they are comfortable with.
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Originally Posted by wgsdluver View Post
Another reason I don't mind type of payment is because if the breeder is interviewing and checking references and everything checks ok why not? Again it's just a way to pay.
I think it's a little more in depth than "oh, they use paypal so they're a bad breeder."

I don't mind a breeder who takes paypal as long as, as you said, they are interviewing and checking references. However, breeders that offer paypal on their site tend to, in my experience, allow for a person to send money without ever contacting the breeder first - that does not a reputable breeder make. /
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:53 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gruntdobermann View Post
I think that in our cyber world we have grown distant to personal communication with one another......a phone call and a personal face to face cannot be substituted.

I also realize that the cyber world has made things easier when it comes to researching info and finding out things on the spot.,,,,do not believe all that you read and only half of what you see.
Well, if the information you're evaluating is that which is posted by the breeder themselves, it is certainly possible to weed out a long list and focus on further investigation of a short list that looks much more promising.

I have zero need or inclination to phone or visit breeders who picture conformationally crappy photos of pet quality animals, who clearly do not take proper care of those animals, and clearly do not have the knowledge or ethics to be breeding in the first place.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:06 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Just remember that there are many many reputable breeders out there that don't have websites at all!
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:33 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Fitz- how do you find those breeders?
I personally really like to see a website to view pictures. Especially if no


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Old 11-06-2012, 07:34 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Did not finish...
Especially if you could not drive to see parents


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Old 11-07-2012, 04:05 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgsdluver View Post
Another reason I don't mind type of payment is because if the breeder is interviewing and checking references and everything checks ok why not? Again it's just a way to pay.


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I don't think it's the act of exchanging of monies through PayPal that's the issue. That being said, I think these arrangements are more appropriately discussed between breeder and puppy buyer in private, without the need to advertise, "WE ACCEPT PAYPAL," "ADD PUPPY TO CART," or "TAKING DEPOSITS NOW; Click here to secure your puppy," on the breeder's website.

Personally, I would not be comfortable purchasing a puppy through "online shopping," from a breeder that is essentially representing themselves as an online store.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:42 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Very interesting indeed ! I want to share my experiences 7 yrs ago. 1st doberman, so I was on line constantly, I soon learned that they all say the same things and have very flashy pics of their house and stuff. I started to ask my own questions to see how they answered me. I guess even with all my searching and calling, asking questions, I found a byb and shamed to admit it said oversized. I went to see her dogs and I think the oversize statement that she has written is a bit misguided. None of them were like big tall over 100 lb dogs. They are heavy in wt or bone though. At that time, I was so hmm lacking in knowledge and the more I was trying to find out, the more I didn't know and more confused I got. I saw some breeders who couldn't possibly live like that ! I stayed clear of one, I just got the feeling that this was a place she probably took people to see a dog only NOT her personal house. To those who do not show pedigrees may not mean much to them, nor titles because they either don't have access to do it, or just plain want a dobe as a companion. I could keep listing but this is just what I found then. It is really mind boggling to a non educated dog owner. I appreciate what people here are adding it will really help me . One thing I would like to know and maybe someone can help is European type vs American lines ? I know the difference (I think ) but what are the feelings on this ? Thanks a bunch..
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:58 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Ask if you aren't sure and ask for proof of testing and titles. Many websites are not a for sale site but a site to enjoy. Some are also out of date.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:08 AM   #34 (permalink)
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To the question of how does one find a good breeder who may not have a website:

I use the internet to find breeders that I think meet my specifications. Then, I email. I'll use my collie breeder as an example because that was the best experience I've had. I think she is a stellar breeder. On her website were links to other collie breeders she knew or greatly admired. Two only had emails, not websites. So, if I had been interested I would have emailed them.

You can go to your breed club on line and they should have a list of breeders with websites and emails, sometimes only emails. Also breed magazines have the same.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:52 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lori Z View Post
To the question of how does one find a good breeder who may not have a website:

I use the internet to find breeders that I think meet my specifications. Then, I email. I'll use my collie breeder as an example because that was the best experience I've had. I think she is a stellar breeder. On her website were links to other collie breeders she knew or greatly admired. Two only had emails, not websites. So, if I had been interested I would have emailed them.

You can go to your breed club on line and they should have a list of breeders with websites and emails, sometimes only emails. Also breed magazines have the same.
You (global you) also get out to shows and trials, that's how you meet, and get to know of, breeders that may be of interest.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:33 PM   #36 (permalink)
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This is a great way to evaluate your pup and breeder,
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:39 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Found this post very helpful from 2010....

Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nstar View Post
So you have a list of websites and you’re trying to make your decision on a puppy?
Or maybe you just want to know if the site you are looking at is reputable.
There are many things you need to consider besides the prettiest site with flashy pictures.
The information can be overwhelming but your time and willingness to learn at this stage will make you a VERY happy Dobe owner in the years to come.

A reputable breeder’s website will inform you about the breeder, their breeding program and their dogs. A reputable breeder is one who is in it to improve the breed (proper testing and thought before breeding). A Backyard Breeder (BYB) is one who is in it for the money. More info on the subject can be found by doing a simple search on here. There are plenty of reputable breeders with websites but unfortunately there are a lot more that just want your money.




What are red flags?


Indicators that should raise your ears and if there are multiples you may want to re-consider on the breeder. So many people are becoming tech savvy and it can be so difficult to spot a bad site versus a legitimate breeder. Only a year ago I can recall myself thinking a site was perfectly fine and if I look at it now, it turns me off.



The following highlights some of the flags and bad practices that you will see on a breeder’s website. Look out for the flags the next time you browse a website:
• Multiple breeds being bred.
-Is the same breeder also breeding Great Danes, West Highland Terriers and a bunch of other breeds? I leave you with one question, how much time does this person have? Must be a superhuman!
• No mention of Health or Health Results are absent
-A reputable breeder will indicate the health results of their dogs!!! If you do not see anything on the health- this should be alarming. At the very least you should see something on vWd, Hip Dysplasia (OFA), cardio or eyes. More info can be found here: DPCA | The Doberman | Health Canine Health Information Center: Hip/Elbow Labs

• Oversized dogs?
-You better run if you see anything thats overly larger than the standard.
-Standard AKC and FCI Doberman standard
-
-
• White Dobermans!
-Run and don’t look back. Read up on Z-Factored dobes here: The Albino
• Pay by Paypal
-This one just pisses me off. I am not buying a f**** product- it’s a living animal. I may be biased but to me this shows someone who is a bit too eager for $.
• A flashy and random site with family pictures!
-This screams BYB- but check to see if they have other flags. Are there numerous pics of children with puppies? Are the puppies wearing jewelry? Why on earth would a reputable breeder try to peddle their pups by putting them in ridiculous outfits at such a young age. Don’t go for the overly cutesy site.
• Too many Dobermans- Does the breeder have a ridiculous amount of dogs (15-20+)?
-You will have to determine this and consider or ask how the breeder keeps up with the dogs. Are they just left in kennels outside? Its possible to have a lot of dogs but you may want to see their living conditions.
• Price variance between males and females.
-Often BYBs will sell females at a higher price- so others can begin their pathetic backyard breeding programs.
• Are there more than 2-3 litters a year? Call and ask why so many litters or how they keep up with their puppies and buyers.
• Mentions “champion breeding” over and over!
- A reputable breeder will have a page dedicated to a dogs wins and will not breed the same dog 10x a year. Some folks are just riding off of other’s successes. Ask them if they show or compete with their dogs? Do they have titled dogs and look at the offspring of these “champions.”
• Lets the pups go before the age of 8 weeks? Pups need to be with their momma and siblings until 8 weeks (PERIOD).
• Ears are not cropped, tails not docked or dew claws not removed? If you are looking at someone in the US, this should be done. You should call on this one.
• Sells puppies at full registration
-Puppies that are not going to show homes, should be sold on Limited AKC registration. You search the topic and difference between the two on here.
• Breeds young dogs or bitches!! You should avoid this- most believe that 2 is a good age to begin. You can search for more info about this on here by doing a search.
• Breeder’s site contains links to the generic puppy sites.
-Typically you want to question listings that you see on sites that cater to generic classifieds.
• Is the price ridiculously high or low.
-A pet quality dobe can range from $1700-2700. On this one you should definitely check with the breeder directly.
-Prices are higher and anyone that is selling for considerably lower is definitely not health testing. Health testing costs money and keep in mind that a reputable breeder also socializes your pup! Before you think that $1700 is too high, consider what the breeder has gone through to ensure a healthy life for your pup.


Be smart and patient when you are considering adding a puppy to your family. Many on DT have shared painful and tragic stories of dobes that were either unhealthy or bought from BYBs. Breeding is more than just mating two random dogs. Before coming to DT, I thought I would have a pup within a few weeks. After an entire year of researching, I will finally get my pup. The above has significantly helped me in my search and I’m confident it will do the same for you. Take what I have listed above as a guide from what I learned from DT- you should still do as much research as you can. Don’t expect to learn everything in a few days- a sense of curiosity about the breed and time will take you a long way.


Before you buy, also consider the following:Buying A Doberman Pinscher
Why Pedigrees matter?Pedigree Research
Breeder Referral: Recommended Breeders!



*I feel strongly about some of the topics above and can go on forever but I've gotta run and sleep. My concerns only grew when I visited a few shelters and helped out at a rescue event recently. I was going to wait until the weekend but I'll be away and hopefully dirt biking after work! I'm sure the experienced folks on here can add to the list or correct me on anything in the list above.
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This is a great way to evaluate your pup/breeder.
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:32 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Many of these are valid points. I've been breeding and showing for 26 years and I just started building a website. There are a number of things that you mentioned I didn't include because I figured those are questions that could be answered when they call. But since seeing these post I will add most of those things to my site. I've had AKC judges that have owned nothing but my breeding for the last 15 years but didn't think they would like there name used on my website.Just like many of the owners I've had.So word of mouth has worked very well for us and meeting people at shows,where they can meet most of your breeding because when I go to a show I would take all 8 kids that I had. From the pup to the 12 year old.So thank you for opening my eyes and please don't beat me up when you look at my website. I have never had a computer class or even read computers for dummies. But I will make those changes. Such as there OFA cert.and that all puppies start getting there nails ground from about 6 wks and being on a table.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:47 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Red flags!!

Hi All,
I've been trying to get my head around a few things i saw on a site advertising dobie pups... after just glancing at your first post about red flags, this one hits pretty much ALL of them!! I find it pretty horrifying that these dogs are bred from in such a way!
I've heard great things about the people on this site and how pro-active you all are when it comes to the benefit of this beautiful breed of dog, and was wondering what, if anything, can be done to discourage BYBs like this from breeding their poor dogs?!?
I've included the website below for you to have a look at and let me know waht you think to this person claiming to be a reputable and caring breeder!

Tajami Dobermans - Home
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:54 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megs View Post
I don't think it's the act of exchanging of monies through PayPal that's the issue. That being said, I think these arrangements are more appropriately discussed between breeder and puppy buyer in private, without the need to advertise, "WE ACCEPT PAYPAL," "ADD PUPPY TO CART," or "TAKING DEPOSITS NOW; Click here to secure your puppy," on the breeder's website.

Personally, I would not be comfortable purchasing a puppy through "online shopping," from a breeder that is essentially representing themselves as an online store.
The website i just posted has a page called Puppy Basket - its basically a page with the pups on and you can Paypal them/Add to cart! Its appalling! THe lady is also charging more for white dobermanns?! It makes me really worried how many dogs this woman breeds and the kind of homes they must go to?!
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:25 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Just the fact that she even breeds albinos would be red flag enough for me.
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:45 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Quite so Rosemary!


Also she calls her litters 'rainbow litters' - makes me sick really!
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:50 PM   #43 (permalink)
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This is one of her 'Malti-poo' litters.... the conditions they were born into is sickening don't you think?!
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:34 PM   #44 (permalink)
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This thread should be a sticky Or at least listed in the Breeder sticky thread.
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Old 04-10-2013, 02:25 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I got nervous reading this thread...there was certainly some risk in getting a rescue Dobie, as much of his past is a mystery. I'm looking to rescue a female now that my boy is settled in. I hope I'm not in for any bad surprises as he ages, but I love him so much I'll do whatever it takes to keep him healthy. He's certainly made me a healthier and happier person! Fingers crossed for a healthy girl to come our way!
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:18 PM   #46 (permalink)
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It might be a backyard breeder site, if...

...there are more photos featuring fast boats & cars with bling wheels than, you know, dogs.
...the site has more distracting animated .gifs than a 90s-vintage Geocities homepage.
...most of the site content is copy-pasted from stock breed descriptions on AKC, Wikipedia, or stickies from popular breed forums.
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Old 02-21-2014, 02:41 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Smile

Sorry, I know this is my first post, and as such, I will probably be 'looked down upon' or whatever, as I am not completely sure how this forum community works, but I have seen plenty of White Dobermans lead long and healthy lives from a breeder who works with them and carefully ensures the highest quality in the puppies.

Now, with that said, I am unsure how the vast majority of white dobe breeders work, but I think it is unfair to throw the entire color under the bus because of your own personal preference. If you have researched the issues and are still prepared to own a White Doberman, you should not be pushed away from it because some find it "wrong" to own one.

This is just my opinion, and I'm sorry if I've started out on the wrong foot here, but you will come to learn I can be outspoken when I feel strongly on an issue. Other than this, I look forward to having future discussion! While I can be stubborn, I am an English teacher that loves multiple points of view!
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:00 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampFox View Post
Sorry, I know this is my first post, and as such, I will probably be 'looked down upon' or whatever, as I am not completely sure how this forum community works, but I have seen plenty of White Dobermans lead long and healthy lives from a breeder who works with them and carefully ensures the highest quality in the puppies.

Now, with that said, I am unsure how the vast majority of white dobe breeders work, but I think it is unfair to throw the entire color under the bus because of your own personal preference. If you have researched the issues and are still prepared to own a White Doberman, you should not be pushed away from it because some find it "wrong" to own one.

This is just my opinion, and I'm sorry if I've started out on the wrong foot here, but you will come to learn I can be outspoken when I feel strongly on an issue. Other than this, I look forward to having future discussion! While I can be stubborn, I am an English teacher that loves multiple points of view!
Before you form an opinion on something I suggest you first educate yourself on the topic.
DPCA | The Doberman | Albino | What is albino
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:42 PM   #49 (permalink)
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White Dobermans aren't white. They are Albino. Anyone who would purposely breed a genetic defect is not reputable. I don't care what they do with them or how long they live.

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Old 02-21-2014, 05:42 PM   #50 (permalink)
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As I said, people are outspoken.

Also, I have read that article and numerous others. Thanks for the information though. This reminds me a lot of what frog breeders say about ball python owners.

Last edited by SwampFox; 02-21-2014 at 05:44 PM..
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