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Old 12-28-2009, 02:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Kathy Babbitt/Katoba Co-Ownership Support Group

I am several months into a co-ownership agreement with Kathy Babbitt/Katoba Dobermans and seriously regret not coming across this forum earlier. Had I done so, I certainly would have steered clear. I fault myself for not being more diligent in my research.

I am requesting the community's help contacting with all current and former co-owners to learn how your are coping, network, and share resources.

If a prediction can be made from the prior related threads, I expect Kathy/Katoba, her lone ally Cathy Ceely of Emerald Dobermans, and a bevy of freshly created proxy accounts to become very verbal. It is a free forum, but I certainly will be ignoring the noise.

Last edited by Red; 12-28-2009 at 02:55 PM..
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Erm.... maybe a little back story?
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
I am several months into a co-ownership agreement with Kathy Babbitt/Katoba Dobermans and seriously regret not coming across this forum earlier. Had I done so, I certainly would have steered clear. I fault myself for not being more diligent in my research.

I am requesting the community's help contacting with all current and former co-owners to learn how your are coping, network, and share resources.

It is my opinion that the breed and the community will be best served when she is permanently prevented from showing and breeding. I don't harbor any ill will toward her and I hope she is able to get the help she needs. Unfortunately, I don't think she is going to come to this conclusion voluntarily.

If a prediction can be made from the prior related threads, I expect Kathy/Katoba, her lone ally Cathy Ceely of Emerald Dobermans, and a bevy of freshly created proxy accounts to become very verbal. It is a free forum, but I certainly will be ignoring the noise.
Hello, I am Cathy Ceely - what concerns do you have?
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm not sure what purpose your post serves. Without all the details, which probably would not be appropriate for a public internet forum, it's a one sided court. If you have general experiences and lessons learned from co-ownership show contracts to share, great. People learn from the pros and cons learned by others. let's keep this thread non-personal and civil. But if you have business contractual issues with said individual, you are probably best served handling it privately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
I am several months into a co-ownership agreement with Kathy Babbitt/Katoba Dobermans and seriously regret not coming across this forum earlier. Had I done so, I certainly would have steered clear. I fault myself for not being more diligent in my research.

I am requesting the community's help contacting with all current and former co-owners to learn how your are coping, network, and share resources.

It is my opinion that the breed and the community will be best served when she is permanently prevented from showing and breeding. I don't harbor any ill will toward her and I hope she is able to get the help she needs. Unfortunately, I don't think she is going to come to this conclusion voluntarily.

If a prediction can be made from the prior related threads, I expect Kathy/Katoba, her lone ally Cathy Ceely of Emerald Dobermans, and a bevy of freshly created proxy accounts to become very verbal. It is a free forum, but I certainly will be ignoring the noise.
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Like A Boxer View Post
Erm.... maybe a little back story?
I'm not trying to start a debate here.

From what I have gathered so far, my experience with her will not be a surprise to anyone who has dealt with her, and my intent in starting this thread is to connect with others who have had direct experience with her.

Last edited by Red; 12-28-2009 at 02:54 PM.. Reason: Grammar
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
I'm not trying to start a debate here and I fear there is a chance Katoba will be named a defendant another legal battle, so I need to be careful what I say here.

From what I have gathered so far my experience with her will not be a surprise to anyone who has dealt with her, and my intent in starting this thread is to connect with others who have had direct experience with her.
Hello again - I have PM'd you and provided you with my direct contact information and invite you to contact me if you so desire - you and I have never met, to my knowledge.

With regard to your stated purpose of establishing this thread; I'm not quite certain that is an appropriate use of this forum.
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Old 12-28-2009, 06:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Welcome to doberman talk Red.

I don't see any problems with this thread as a means of connectioning with those having difficulties in the doberman world as there are many such threads (beyond Katoba) like this throughout this forum.

There are several Katoba puppy buyers on Doberman talk that hopefully will see this thread and appreciate this support group.

In appreciation for the forum though, I respectfully ask that everyone not use this thread to discuss specific problems they have had and speak with each other directly or through PMs. Please keep this public conversation constructive and on the "high" road.

Thank you, Tracy, Drago, and Mariah.
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I agree with Tracy that the details can and should be shared via PMs and private email.
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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With regard to your stated purpose of establishing this thread; I'm not quite certain that is an appropriate use of this forum.
I disagree.

The OP is merely requesting information and contact with individuals experiencing the same issues, just like any other thread subject/topic posted on DT. As long as it stays civil and personal issues are taken private then I see no reason to call it inappropriate.
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm just concerned that we don't really know who "Red" is at this point.....
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Old 12-28-2009, 09:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'm just concerned that we don't really know who "Red" is at this point.....
Point taken However I don't personally know most of the people on DT...so I guess I am not sure why that is relevant in this case over any other....like I said as long as the discussion stays civil and private where personal issues come into it, as the moderators have indicated.

Those of us who have been on DT a while are understandably leery due to the subject matter, however it is important in my view to allow info gathering even if we don't particularly like the subject.
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Old 12-28-2009, 09:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I'm just concerned that we don't really know who "Red" is at this point.....
My name is David Truax, I purchased Braun from Katoba/Kathy Babbitt's most recent litter, whelped August 1st 2009. What other information can I offer?

I appreciate the outpouring of support I have received so far.

It is not my intent to defame or have a debate here, I just want to connect with any and everyone who is or was in a co-ownership agreement with Kathy. If you know anyone who meets that description, there is unlikely to be any ambiguity about what we'll be discussing.
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Wow, it's December 2009. So much trouble after just getting your pooch?
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I don't see why others who have had either negative or positive experiences with a breeder can post the details of their experiences but this OP is being urged to keep his Katoba Dobermans experience private. If the facts are stated publicly (and no personal attacks are made), then others who may be seeking info on this breeder for a potential puppy purchase will likely benefit from the information. Since when have facts about a puppy purchase and/or breeder contract been discouraged on this forum?
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:47 PM   #16 (permalink)
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This is the 1st time I've heard of Katoba so I did a DT search for additional info- the subject of co-ownership has been brought to the table in the past.
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:54 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sam&macksmom View Post
This is the 1st time I've heard of Katoba so I did a DT search for additional info- the subject of co-ownership has been brought to the table in the past.
Are you referring to co ownerships in general or with this person in particular?
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by StarlaineK9 View Post
I disagree.

The OP is merely requesting information and contact with individuals experiencing the same issues, just like any other thread subject/topic posted on DT. As long as it stays civil and personal issues are taken private then I see no reason to call it inappropriate.
How do we know that anyone's had the same issues if we don't know what those issues even are?

I don't know this breeder in particular so can't say anything either way - although I think disputes regarding a contractual agreement should be discussed with an attorney and not on a public forum.

I am sure that people who have had issues with this breeder would be happy to discuss them in private with the OP - if they exist.
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:04 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaindanceIGs View Post
How do we know that anyone's had the same issues if we don't know what those issues even are?

I don't know this breeder in particular so can't say anything either way - although I think disputes regarding a contractual agreement should be discussed with an attorney and not on a public forum.

I am sure that people who have had issues with this breeder would be happy to discuss them in private with the OP - if they exist.
Let's go back to square one...here is what the OP asked:

I am requesting the community's help contacting with all current and former co-owners to learn how your are coping, network, and share resources.

insofar as the - if they exist - part I guess we will find out I am sure.
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Last edited by StarlaineK9; 12-28-2009 at 11:06 PM..
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:09 PM   #20 (permalink)
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it was a thread from 2007 with Katoba and Dragon Heart- wasn't alot of details but apparently DH was awarded sole ownership. not alot of details but I guess it's public knowledge. Maybe DH will reach out to the OP.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaineK9 View Post
Are you referring to co ownerships in general or with this person in particular?
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:10 PM   #21 (permalink)
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To the OP:

Is there legal action involved? If so, has your attorney been apprised that you are initiating this thread on a public internet forum?
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:56 AM   #22 (permalink)
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To the OP:

It seems to me that your co-ownership dispute is solely with Kathy Babbitt/Katoba but in your original post in this thread, you toss Cathy Ceely and her kennel name Emerald Dobermans into the mix. In my opinion, this is an injustice to Cathy Ceely and ALL of us with her dogs. I actually own a dog from Cathy C, who I love dearly and would buy another dog from her in a heartbeat. Your dispute has NOTHING to do with Cathy Ceely and I would hope you would post a public apology to her. Furthermore, I wouldn't have made a comment in this thread had you not invoked an innocent person, as I don't know you and barely know Kathy Babbitt.
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:47 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinb View Post
To the OP:

It seems to me that your co-ownership dispute is solely with Kathy Babbitt/Katoba but in your original post in this thread, you toss Cathy Ceely and her kennel name Emerald Dobermans into the mix. In my opinion, this is an injustice to Cathy Ceely and ALL of us with her dogs. I actually own a dog from Cathy C, who I love dearly and would buy another dog from her in a heartbeat. Your dispute has NOTHING to do with Cathy Ceely and I would hope you would post a public apology to her. Furthermore, I wouldn't have made a comment in this thread had you not invoked an innocent person, as I don't know you and barely know Kathy Babbitt.
With all due respect Robin, this is what "Red" posted with regard to Cathy Ceely: "her lone ally Cathy Ceely of Emerald Dobermans". In fact his is a truthful assessment as Cathy Ceely is Ms Babbitt's dog show handler of choice and owns the stud dog who sired one of Kathy Babbitt's litters. In addition the two have traveled together to shows therefore they have a close association and "ally" would be a fair assumption. Nowhere did he mention details of any disputes with either party he was merely looking for assistance. Personally if Ms Ceely wishes to associate with such persons, that is her right however she is associated and so fallout should be expected.

Unfortunately the Babbitt subject, having come up AGAIN, creates angst and discord and really goes nowhere. I personally don't wish to give her that much bandwidth but I think it is important to offer people looking for puppies an information resource. Enough said from me on this subject.

Have a great and peaceful New Year Robin
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:55 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaineK9 View Post
With all due respect Robin, this is what "Red" posted with regard to Cathy Ceely: "her lone ally Cathy Ceely of Emerald Dobermans". In fact his is a truthful assessment as Cathy Ceely is Ms Babbitt's dog show handler of choice and owns the stud dog who sired one of Kathy Babbitt's litters. In addition the two have traveled together to shows therefore they have a close association and "ally" would be a fair assumption. Nowhere did he mention details of any disputes with either party he was merely looking for assistance. Personally if Ms Ceely wishes to associate with such persons, that is her right however she is associated and so fallout should be expected.
Elaine, again you have presented the facts according to you only - writing about issues which you have little knowledge of. I don't recall that you and I have had any conversations in quite some time with regard to any 'close association' I may or may not have with anyone. Therefore, your statement of 'truthful assessment' by the OP - whom I have never met; never spoken to; never corresponded with - seems a tad far-fetched to me.

So, setting the record completely straight - yes, I do co-own the stud dog (he does not live with me) to whom Ms. Babbitt bred - 2+ years ago. Yes, I have shown some of Kathy's dogs; I do not show all of her dogs. And, yes, Kathy travelled in my motorhome to one dog show in 2008. I'm not certain that I would define that as a 'close association' - but everyone has their own definition of 'close' I suppose.

If anyone else has any questions or concerns with regard to any relationship I may or may not have with *anyone* feel free to contact me directly. Those who actually know me are well aware of the fact that I am quite straight-forward.
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Old 12-29-2009, 11:00 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Red-

I think you would do yourself a favour to explain what the problems are. Though as you stated, people that have delt with this person (whom I do not know at all, or anything about her) will know what you are speaking of, it is possible that other owners on this forum may have had similar issues in other contracts or with other people.

This forum is full of knowledge and people that are willing to provide support and advice. I suggest that you RESPECTFULLY tap in to that knowledge instead of painting yourself in to a corner.

I also suggest that you keep to FACTS and not simple implications.

I also wish you all the best in whichever issues that you have come across. From your avatar, your pup is adorable.
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