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Old 12-10-2009, 02:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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When do we breed a female Doberman ?

Hi all,

First off, I'm not a breeder, not going to breed any litter, and I own a 4 months old male one.
This question is to collect knowledge.
In my country, there is a guy going to breed his bitch, the girl is not 14 months old. As far as I read on this site, it should be after 2 years old for her breeding. I try to search on the thread before you breed but it didn't help anything relate to my question.
When I tell the guy that he should not breed her too early, he asked for a prove link which I can't find on the net.
Could you please give me some input, please!!!!
Thanks a lot.
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I see that if the bitch is yournger than 2 years old her hip test result is not accurate. That's what I know so far. Anything else?
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't have an answer for you, as I have never bred and never will breed a dog, but I would tell him if he doesn't even know at what age a dog should be bred, he probably has no business breeding one in the first place!
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:40 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thank you for reading, learning, and trying to be the best ambassador for the breed that you can!!!
Thank you for taking the time to explain things to that Doberman owner.
There are many threads on this forum discussing requirements for breeding.
Use the search button.
The easiest thing for me to do would be Google Doberman Pinscher,then go to the American Kennel club website. You can show him written proof of the things you are trying to teach him there. I'm sure there are lot's of other Doberman specific club websites that others on here can direct you to.
There are so many health issues that I have learned about on this site, that I strongly suggest that we leave the BREEDING to experts, and then BUY from them.
Since he has no breeder to teach him things, I am assuming that it is not a dog from a reputable breeder. I really wish you would stress the need to SPAY his bitch.
Good luck with that...But thanks for trying...
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Aside from the health testing, i also think that the bitch's development is an issue.
The dog is not fully developped at 14 months, and you wouldn't want to have a pregnancy on a body that's not fully developped.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AXL View Post
Aside from the health testing, i also think that the bitch's development is an issue.
The dog is not fully developped at 14 months, and you wouldn't want to have a pregnancy on a body that's not fully developped.
Many medium and large breeds will not fully mature mentally and physically until after 2 years of age. The growth plates wont be closed at 14 months, so OFA hip results wouldn't be accurate, but Pennhip has been touted to give accurate results earlier.

Its just a moral dilemma of whether or not to subject the bitch to this, why does he want to breed her? What makes him think his dog is worth breeding?

Have you told him about DCM or the liver disease that this breed suffers from? Eye testing etc?

Thank you for trying to intervene on this dog's behalf!
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
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think of a 14 month old doberman like a 14 year old girl, just b/c she can produce a baby, doesn't mean she should or that it is good for her. There are way too many people out there breeding dogs without a single bit of knowledge on the subject, they are looking to make money, not do anything to improve the breed or produce the best possible pups.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
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same as with people. Just because a pre teen can have kids, doesn't mean that she SHOULD.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks all for your answer.
I didn't know that medium size and large size need a long time to grow up
I tried to explain to him about test, about disease and whatever I know of Doberman before breeding, but well, I know him from another pet forum so I'm not sure if that would work out or not.
I know he's after money. I also know that he wants to grab a chance that the stud - one imported from russia - which just happens to be the father of my pup - available. Sorry for my English.
Basically, here in VN we don't pay many thousands $$ for a pup. We can't ask for those tests you care about here. and nobody does the test anyway.
I just feel very sorry for the bitch in his possession. I'll try until the end, but I'm not sure if it would reach his senses or not.
By the way, here is the picture of the stud.



This is the bitch i'm talking about;



again, thanks for your help.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:35 AM   #10 (permalink)
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You should read the information the DPCA provides on dpca.org about breeding and buying; I'm sure it will help clear things up for you. But no, a 14mo old bitch should not be bred IMO.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:52 AM   #11 (permalink)
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A 14 month old IS still a pup, simple as that. Her maturation process is ongoing, and her immaturity can cause a problem inregards to caring for her pups. I've dealt with stupid people my entire life when it comes to breedings, if your friend is determined to breed her for money alone explain that her youth can cause him money problems, if she's to immature to feed and care for a litter, the cost of shots, ears (if done) docking, dews and food, any complications with birthing. If you approach people with profit on their minds then your argument needs negative money concerns. Good luck. Von.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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He should breed her after he spays her.

Good luck trying to educate the uneducated! Thank you for trying to do the right thing for the dog.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by von Cosack Dobermann View Post
A 14 month old IS still a pup, simple as that. Her maturation process is ongoing, and her immaturity can cause a problem inregards to caring for her pups. I've dealt with stupid people my entire life when it comes to breedings, if your friend is determined to breed her for money alone explain that her youth can cause him money problems, if she's to immature to feed and care for a litter, the cost of shots, ears (if done) docking, dews and food, any complications with birthing. If you approach people with profit on their minds then your argument needs negative money concerns. Good luck. Von.
This is true--you can't approach someone like this with arguments based on ethics and compassion--it's not something they can "hear," because their values are different.

I have also found the most effective way to reach folks like this is to be very unemotional and dispassionate and just keep pointing out the monetary risks.

Thanks for giving this a try, be_cool, you are going to be a great breed ambassador.
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Old 12-12-2009, 12:34 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks all.
Regarding dpca site, I did try it but it's all too general information, and they don't mention about which age we should breed.
It seems the guy who owns the tud already agree to breed his Dob with this guy. I'll let you know if I can make it or not.
I'm desperately looking for another Doberman pup for my uncle in a big farm, but I'm not going to get one from this guy if he has any.
I may buy from a another backyard breeder because I don't have any choices. But not from this guy with the poor dog.
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:45 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by becool_tonic View Post
Thanks all.
Regarding dpca site, I did try it but it's all too general information, and they don't mention about which age we should breed.
It seems the guy who owns the tud already agree to breed his Dob with this guy. I'll let you know if I can make it or not.
I'm desperately looking for another Doberman pup for my uncle in a big farm, but I'm not going to get one from this guy if he has any.
I may buy from a another backyard breeder because I don't have any choices. But not from this guy with the poor dog.

See if you can find a Doberman in a shelter or a rescue. I don't know how things are set up in your country, but if you can check with each shelter at least weekly, and keep your name on their minds, for a Doberman who comes in, they should contact you.

Also, you can watch community bulletin boards and the newspaper for Dobermans being rehomed.

I really hope you can try not to support anyone doing unethical things--just like the person breeding the poor young bitch, a BYB will be doing unethical things as well.
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I sooooooooooooo agree with what von Cosack says.
Yes, ask your friend if he has the experience to hand raise the litter should the little Dobe girl not be able to handle it because she is so mentally immature at this age too.
Or if he will be able to affore having a C-section done to save Mom, and maybe some of the pups, or if he is even experienced enough to notice when and if a whelping problem developes.
She could DIE from complications that relate to breeding her at such an early age.
Why chance that.
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:34 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
See if you can find a Doberman in a shelter or a rescue. I don't know how things are set up in your country, but if you can check with each shelter at least weekly, and keep your name on their minds, for a Doberman who comes in, they should contact you.

Also, you can watch community bulletin boards and the newspaper for Dobermans being rehomed.

I really hope you can try not to support anyone doing unethical things--just like the person breeding the poor young bitch, a BYB will be doing unethical things as well.
We don't have any animal rescue here. And Doberman is an expensive breed to be dumped for free. People would only sell them.
Most of case here would be considered as rescue when you se a god is so starving with lot of health problem, with or without a meal a day. You can't stand it and you bring him to your own home then try to re-home him all by yourself.
I'd be the first one who would join any rescue in my city if there is any.
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Maybe you could start a rescue! Not sure if there are any dog clubs in your area but check it out and see if they have any rescue programs in place already! There are a few people here in BC and elsewhere who do rescueing all on their own!!!! One dog at a time!!!!
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