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Old 11-09-2009, 02:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Angry Family Dobes, AZ, UTAH

Good day everyone I am brand new to this world of dobermans and I need help in shutting down a puppy mill, abusive, lying, dishonest man. I purchased a "trained" doberman from Steve Parsons at FamilyDobes and now he has moved from AZ to Utah, this is a long story I told him I was interested in doing schutzhund work he said the 8500.00 doberman was ready for his BH and Sch1, he just wanted someone else to have the glory of titling the doberman, and he did not have time to do this, well I bought the doberman in May and we are no way near the time for a BH, then he said I had NO restrictions on the dog and he would send me the transferred AKC reg papers, which came with restrictions, he sent me a puppy at 6.5 weeks that is infected with demondex, and he knew the mother had demondex when I asked him about her spots he said it was from rubbing?! I know that I am uneducated consumer and this is my fault but I must say I feel sorry for the puppies he is flying all over the world at such a young age falsifying the travel cert, he also placed a service vest on my adult male so he could fly the dog. I have LOTS more, I just need help to report him. Thank you.
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
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he also placed a service vest on my adult male so he could fly the dog. I have LOTS more, I just need help to report him. Thank you.
That much is actually a felony. It is illegal to impersonate a trained service animal. I would get in touch with the airline he flies with and let them know about the fraud. It could have turned into a HUGE lawsuit if the dog did something when on airport property or actually on the plane. He probably wasn't even insured correctly!

I'm sorry you were swindled this way. Its never fun to be conned.
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:39 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Contact Assistance Dogs, International to report the fraud impersonating an Assistance animal. At the very least, they will send him a letter.
I would contact every airline you think he does business with and let them know the age at which he is shipping pups. They can then put this in their system as an alert and will make him prove age when he goes to ship pups in the future. the vet who provided the health certificate should also be notified.
Did you not know the age of the pup you were getting? If so, then you may be implicated as you knew and also did not report as well as accepted the puppy.

Good luck!
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Did you have a contract that outlined this?


I would contact the Attorney General in your state.
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by newdobermanmom View Post
I purchased a "trained" doberman from Steve Parsons at FamilyDobes and now he has moved from AZ to Utah, this is a long story I told him I was interested in doing schutzhund work he said the 8500.00 doberman was ready for his BH and Sch1, he just wanted someone else to have the glory of titling the doberman, and he did not have time to do this, well I bought the doberman in May and we are no way near the time for a BH, then he said I had NO restrictions on the dog and he would send me the transferred AKC reg papers, which came with restrictions, Thank you.
I believe that this is called "theft by deception".
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdobermanmom View Post
Good day everyone I am brand new to this world of dobermans and I need help in shutting down a puppy mill, abusive, lying, dishonest man. I purchased a "trained" doberman from Steve Parsons at FamilyDobes and now he has moved from AZ to Utah, this is a long story I told him I was interested in doing schutzhund work he said the 8500.00 doberman was ready for his BH and Sch1, he just wanted someone else to have the glory of titling the doberman, and he did not have time to do this, well I bought the doberman in May and we are no way near the time for a BH, then he said I had NO restrictions on the dog and he would send me the transferred AKC reg papers, which came with restrictions, he sent me a puppy at 6.5 weeks that is infected with demondex, and he knew the mother had demondex when I asked him about her spots he said it was from rubbing?! I know that I am uneducated consumer and this is my fault but I must say I feel sorry for the puppies he is flying all over the world at such a young age falsifying the travel cert, he also placed a service vest on my adult male so he could fly the dog. I have LOTS more, I just need help to report him. Thank you.
Welcome to the forum.

I'm sorry to hear you've had such upsetting experiences with Steve Parsons and Family Dobes. There has been much discussion about this business on DT, and every now and then you will find one or two new posters defending this person and/or singing his praises, but most of what we "hear" is similar to your experience.

It's good you own your part in it--by saying yourself you were an uneducated consumer.

I think at this point you're left with damage control, and trying to educate others, to keep them from making similar mistakes to yours.

If you could share with us...what exactly appealed to you to purchase from such an operation? Were there any red flags or bad gut instincts, and if so, why did you ignore that?

It sounds like you purchased two animals from him, an adult male, and also a pup? Why did you repeat your business with him? Was it that the purchases were simultaneous, or what?

Anyway, as far as "shutting him down," that is probably very unrealistic. If a business that deals in animals is providing minimal shelter, food, and water, they will likely not be "shut down."

There are ways that are legal and legitimate to you, to seek some sort of recompense, but you may need the advice of an attorney. A civil suit may be in order.

As far as the alleged fraud, contacting BBB and more especially, the State Attorney General is a great first step.

It may be that an inquiry to the IRS, to see if he is reporting the income from his business, would be productive.

Any health code violations could be reported. I don't know your state's laws, and I'm unsure of the extent of enforcement of impersonating a Service Animal, but that is certainly fraudulent and despicable. If you know which organization he certs his Service dogs with--I would sure be reporting this infraction to them. (The misleading information on his Service dog page on his site has long been a thorn in my side, btw.)

Often, over the years, in rescue work, I've found that "going thru the back door" with other agencies, such as the AG, BBB, and IRS, is more effective than trying to just "shut down" a place where animals are not treated correctly. Understand--I have not seen Family Dobes' operation, and I am not referring to them specifically, just as a general statement.
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Old 11-09-2009, 06:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Awesome post RFR. What a great point, to go other avenues than straight up animal welfare, because after all, shady hardly ever happens in just one place.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdobermanmom View Post
I purchased a "trained" doberman from Steve Parsons at FamilyDobes and now he has moved from AZ to Utah, this is a long story I told him I was interested in doing schutzhund work he said the 8500.00 doberman was ready for his BH and Sch1, he just wanted someone else to have the glory of titling the doberman, and he did not have time to do this, well I bought the doberman in May and we are no way near the time for a BH,.
Well maybe he was ready for a "midnight trial", which is not an uncommon practice with commercial breeders or some Euro show people that ONLY care about the marketing aspect of a few letters behind the dogs name.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:07 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Prior to Hallie, I bought a dog from Steve, and when the dog arrived, she was not what I was expecting. To Steve's credit, he immediately refunded my money, including the fee to ship the dog back to him. He also paid for the bag of food I had bought, as well as the treats. He lost a decent amount of money, and did so without me having to threaten him in any way. I really respect the way he handled the situation, as he took full financial responsibility for my not being satisfied with the dog.
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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There is an ad by google for familydobes.com at the bottom of this thread.
At least it was there for me.
Impressive website with a lot of info but that doesn't mean crap.
Is this the same person?
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Familydobes was one of the first places we looked for our new puppy (we are located in utah). I filled out the puppy application/questionnaire (we were looking for a black/rust female PUPPY) and got a response that he had an adult, spayed female available and he would be in our area the next day and could bring her to us. I figured since she was spayed she must have been a returned family pet that didn't work out in it's previous home, or not the quality he wanted for his breeding program and would be in a fairly reasonable price range and needed a good home. I was shocked to find out he wanted "ONLY" $3,500 for her.. Now I can see why he said "ONLY" $3,500, I can't believe the prices he charges.. The fact he was so willing to bring this adult Dobe to us the very next day (knowing we had kids, etc.) raised some red flags with us and needless to say we started looking elsewhere.. The dog is still available in his available adults listings..
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
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$3500 for a spayed adult female, holy crap! and people pay this? I'm astounded. same for $8500 for a trained male, sorry but if you want to compete with a dog, do the work yourself, don't take some one else's word that the dog is ready to compete.
so many scary stories!
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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3500$? 8500$? I'm sorry, but this is a dog that will die in ten or so years. 3500$ - 8500$ jus to start off with? Then add all the other necessisties? My husband and I have talked together about reasonable prices for a Doberman from a reputable breeder, we decided 2500$ is the max for a dog. I'm sorry this is a DOG, unless this dog craps out gold and diamonds. I understand that some dogs are worth a lot of money because of titles, pedigree etc., but 8500$ for mediocre if any training?
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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im sorry to hear of your experience but I'm also not clear. did you buy TWO dogs from him?
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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We don't seem to be hearing back from the OP.

Kind of odd, considering the vehement tone of their first post.
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:39 PM   #16 (permalink)
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im sorry to hear of your experience but I'm also not clear. did you buy TWO dogs from him?
Yeah I was kind of confused on that too... if the experience was so bad why go back and buy a second dog from them? Or did they buy both at the same time?
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Old 11-12-2009, 06:22 AM   #17 (permalink)
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sorry

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Yeah I was kind of confused on that too... if the experience was so bad why go back and buy a second dog from them? Or did they buy both at the same time?
there has been a death in my family and i have placed all the doberman drama on the side, fyi the adult male i got and then he called me and stated that he had this great red bitch that is going to be a great working dog, not knowing enough about the scam from the adult "trained" male, trust me I take full responsibility for my actions of being an uneducated consumer....and each day I am learning more and more about dobermans. Thank you for all of your responses...shame on me for believing a nice man....
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:35 AM   #18 (permalink)
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so you had a one year old "working" male and accepted a 6 week old puppy?

This is the reason that people like familydobes are still in business.

the appropriate time to do research is generally BEFORE you do something. I cannot understand this and, OP, its not just you, this seems to happen a lot. DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFOOOORRRREEE you make a commitment.

How long had you had the male before you got the female? have you ever had a working dog before? I'm only asking because I'd assume that it wouldn't take very long for someone with any experience to determine if that male was or was NOT ready for a trial.

edited to add: I'm very sorry about the family member death. best wishes.
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Old 11-13-2009, 06:05 PM   #19 (permalink)
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heres my part listen/read lol.... all dogs that are sent via airplane have to be vet checked and oked by the airlines and needs good health befor able to be flown aka ship by air.

i thinking these 2 dogs were most likely infected while on the plane.

you dont have proof of the vet cirt for the dogs to be able to fly??
most airlines wont fly dogs when their infected.

for your Q? family dobes has two kennels one in Az. other in the other state.

he sold afew pup's/dogs has litters dont seam others had a problem with familydobes.
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Old 11-13-2009, 06:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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all dogs that are sent via airplane have to be vet checked and oked by the airlines and needs good health befor able to be flown aka ship by air.

i thinking these 2 dogs were most likely infected while on the plane.

you dont have proof of the vet cirt for the dogs to be able to fly??
most airlines wont fly dogs when their infected.
Wrong.

Furthermore, the idea that the dogs became infected on the plane refutes your argument that all dogs are thoroughly examined by a veterinarian and the airline and would not be allowed to fly if infected.

************************************************** ********

Canine Demodicosis:
This skin disease of dogs occurs when large numbers of Demodex canis mites inhabit hair follicles and sebaceous glands. In small numbers, these mites are part of the normal flora of the skin of dogs and cause no clinical disease. The mites are transmitted from dam to puppies during nursing within the first 72 hr after birth. The mites spend their entire life cycle on the host, and the disease is not considered to be contagious.The pathogenesis of demodicosis is complex and not completely understood; evidence of hereditary predisposition for generalized disease is strong. Immunosuppression, natural or iatrogenic, can precipitate the disease in some cases. Secondary bacterial furunculosis or cellulitis may occur, leading to a guarded prognosis.

Two clinical forms (localized and generalized) of the disease exist. Localized demodicosis occurs in dogs <2 yr old, and most of these cases, especially the nummular forms, are thought to resolve spontaneously. Lesions consist of areas of focal alopecia, erythema and/or hyperpigmentation, and comedones. Pruritus is usually absent or weak. A percentage of these cases, especially the diffuse localized forms, progress to the generalized form. Generalized demodicosis is a severe disease with generalized lesions that are usually aggravated by secondary bacterial infections (pyodemodicosis). Accompanying pododermatitis is common. Dogs can have systemic illness with generalized lymphadenopathy, lethargy, and fever when deep pyoderma, furunculosis, or cellulitis is seen. Deep skin scrapings reveal mites, eggs, and larval forms in high numbers. Whenever generalized demodicosis is diagnosed in an adult dog, medical evaluation to identify an underlying systemic disease should be pursued.

Nummular localized demodicosis can be left untreated. The prognosis for this form is usually good, and spontaneous recovery is frequent. In contrast, treatment is required in cases of diffuse localized demodicosis (which can generalize), generalized demodicosis, pyodemodicosis, and pododemodicosis, for which prognosis is always guarded. Hair clipping and body cleansing, especially with benzoyl peroxide shampoo used for its follicular flushing activity, may be required. Whole-body amitraz dips (0.025%) applied every 2 wk is an approved treatment for generalized demodicosis in the USA. Higher concentrations (0.1%) and shorter treatment intervals (1 wk) may be more efficient. Other experimental protocols using daily half-body amitraz dips have been proposed for refractory generalized demodicosis. Among macrocyclic lactones, only milbemycin oxime (0.5-1 mg/kg, PO, sid) is approved for generalized demodicosis in some countries. Other reportedly successful nonlicensed systemic treatments include moxidectin (400 g/kg, PO, sid) and ivermectin (300-600 g/kg, PO, sid). For the latter, different therapeutic protocols have been proposed with a gradually increased dosage and thorough monitoring of patients to detect any potentially toxic effect. Ivermectin is contraindicated in Collies and Collie crosses. Local and systemic corticosteroids are contraindicated in any animal diagnosed with demodicosis. Secondary bacterial infections are treated with an appropriate antibiotic. Antiparasitic therapy must be continued not only until clinical signs abate but also until at least 2 consecutive negative skin scrapings are obtained at 1-mo intervals. As the sole prophylactic measure, demodectic dogs should not be used for breeding.

Merck Veterinary Manual
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:46 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdobermanmom View Post
there has been a death in my family and i have placed all the doberman drama on the side, fyi the adult male i got and then he called me and stated that he had this great red bitch that is going to be a great working dog, not knowing enough about the scam from the adult "trained" male, trust me I take full responsibility for my actions of being an uneducated consumer....and each day I am learning more and more about dobermans. Thank you for all of your responses...shame on me for believing a nice man....
I am sorry you have had this bad experience with your new dobermans. If you are not satisfied I would contact Steve and see if he will take the dogs back. If you don't want to send the puppy back you might try to get him to pay for the cost of treatment but you can never breed the dog. Well actually that depends on the severity of the demodex and whether it self cures or not. I would bet against that, tho, since the mother had it. She should have never been bred, but the way he gets dogs he might not have know she was predisposed. The whelping could have caused her to break out.

It is just a shame that novice buyers, like you, are taken advantage of. Most get the puppy and fall in love than they don't want to return it. This is what these types of breeders count on. The being out of state makes it practically impossible to sue as the money is not usually worth it. You start figuring in the travel costs, lawyer, etc and it has to be a very large amount to make it worthwhile.

Again I am sorry you have had this terrible experience starting out in dobes.
Let us know if we can help you in any way.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:02 PM   #22 (permalink)
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more info on familydobes glen flavished (zenny) is from whitedk9 kennel. you seam my idea you were going to breed your dobermanns thats why you bought an adult thats supose to be trained for bh ztp ipo's to beable to breed then you found out its not ready for bh etc and you bought the female/puppy for breeding. tell us your real intenstions.. would prefer proof and other information about your problem. people on fourm has asked for to beable to help you guys more.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:20 PM   #23 (permalink)
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more info on familydobes glen flavished (zenny) is from whitedk9 kennel. you seam my idea you were going to breed your dobermanns thats why you bought an adult thats supose to be trained for bh ztp ipo's to beable to breed then you found out its not ready for bh etc and you bought the female/puppy for breeding. tell us your real intenstions.. would prefer proof and other information about your problem. people on fourm has asked for to beable to help you guys more.


Huh? Oo
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:51 PM   #24 (permalink)
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err..... o.0
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Old 11-20-2009, 07:37 AM   #25 (permalink)
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thank you everyone for your help

Quote:
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more info on familydobes glen flavished (zenny) is from whitedk9 kennel. you seam my idea you were going to breed your dobermanns thats why you bought an adult thats supose to be trained for bh ztp ipo's to beable to breed then you found out its not ready for bh etc and you bought the female/puppy for breeding. tell us your real intenstions.. would prefer proof and other information about your problem. people on fourm has asked for to beable to help you guys more.
was not going to breed them AT all and have NO intentions of breeding, i made a mistake and i am treating the female puppy and i am working on training the older male with a trainer, as i have stated in an earlier post my brother age 38 passed suddenly and i have not responded related to my grieving over him. i have contacted the attorney general's office in NJ and AZ, i have contacted the airlines, and most importantly just continue to love my dobes and ask for God to forgive me for not making an educated consumer's purchase, I am thankful that I am learning each and everyday for those of you that posted negative comments I pray you never make mistake in life.
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