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post #176 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 08:18 PM
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Ok, the purpose of me rehashing this thread was a concern about dog fighting videos and that it is easily retraceable / hosted by this guys website. Health issue and the price of puppies is one thing, but I really want to know who the heck is this OTHER glaring concern reportable to? Not on the Internet forum, but actual authorities? No one else finds this concerning?
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post #177 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 08:23 PM
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the DCM gene test is only a marker for one of the obviously multiple genes attributed to DCM, it's not the end-all-be-all and many breeders do not put too much emphasis on them (even though i think dogs should be tested for this marker, not to make breeding decisions per se, but for the added information to the study of DCM in this breed).

at this point, it's far more logical to rely on cardio testing by means of echos and holtering along with pedigree research in determining what to do. unless it's a homozygous positive dog, then the dog should be removed from a breeding program but this test isn't saying much when dogs who actually have DCM are showing up as homozygous negative (not having that marker present).

a pedigree with an abundance of DCM, to me, is a huge red flag.

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post #178 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monicaei View Post
Ok, the purpose of me rehashing this thread was a concern about dog fighting videos and that it is easily retraceable / hosted by this guys website. Health issue and the price of puppies is one thing, but I really want to know who the heck is this OTHER glaring concern reportable to? Not on the Internet forum, but actual authorities? No one else finds this concerning?
they're not real dog fighting videos.

something clever goes here.
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post #179 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by monicaei View Post
Ok, while surfing the web today I came across a site Doberman Place that appears to have lots of links on dog fighting videos (left on screen on homepage). I did not click the links to see if they are real, most are listed as such, most involve dobes. I can't bring myself to click. but I did poke around enough to find out it's linked to/hosted by family dobes. So I searched them on here, seems to be this guy. WTF? If it is real, who do you report this to?
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Originally Posted by monicaei View Post
Ok, the purpose of me rehashing this thread was a concern about dog fighting videos and that it is easily retraceable / hosted by this guys website. Health issue and the price of puppies is one thing, but I really want to know who the heck is this OTHER glaring concern reportable to? Not on the Internet forum, but actual authorities? No one else finds this concerning?
Um not defending the guy, but what are you going to report exactly? There are some videos posted with titles that sound like they're of dog fighting, but I'm not really sure because I didn't click the links? Sort of ridiculous no?

Guess what? I clicked the links and all of the ones I clicked were of dogs playing / rough housing. Again, not defending the guy, but maybe do a bit more research before making accusations?

"Expect the worst and you won't be disappointed." - Helen MacInnes
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post #180 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 08:34 PM
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Got it. Thanks. My bad.
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post #181 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by StarlightDobe View Post
Hmmm ... I looked up this pedigree and found this ...
The Dam to Fedor:
Name Akuna Matata de Grande Vinko (8) 3/22/2001 - 7/8/2009 Life Status RIP
Sire Tigr iz Slavnoi Stai (4) 2/8/1998 - 4/15/2002 Life Status RIP
Dam Andromeda Ak-yar (8) 0/0/1995 - 0/0/2004 Life Status RIP

Diagnosed
N/A

Cause of Death
DOD: 7/8/2009 COD: DCM/Sudden Death Determined by: Source DVIN

Baron Nike Renewal's Dam:
Name Borana Sawages (2) 5/28/1993 - 0/0/1996 Life Status RIP
Sire Graaf Festus v. Neerlands Stam (9) 9/23/1991 - 0/0/2001 Life Status RIP
Dam Heidy Royal Bell (8) 8/6/1989 - 0/0/1998 Life Status RIP

Diagnosed
N/A

Cause of Death
DOD: 0/0/1996 COD: Bloat Determined by: Source DVIN
Comments
died due to stomach torsion, shortly after her B-litter was born

Akuna's Sire:
Name Tigr iz Slavnoi Stai (4) 2/8/1998 - 4/15/2002 Life Status RIP
Sire Ugor di Villa Conte (4) 3/22/1993 - 1/1/1998 Life Status RIP
Dam Indira v.d. Rauberhohle (5) 1/2/1996 - 3/10/2001 Life Status RIP

Diagnosed
N/A

Cause of Death
DOD: 4/15/2002 COD: DCM Determined by: Source DVIN

Quite a pedigree there Id say, there were 4 other dogs in the pedigree that lived 6 years or less, yeah very impressive ... thats what you get for all that money huh?
The person you are responding to was banned 5 months ago.

While I would not defend FD in any way Del Nasi is a very respectable breeder of Euro Showlines. Fedor is my boys Grandsire, and to me his pedigree looks very typical of any Doberman. Fedor will be 10 next year and his sire Baron Nike lived to 12 and his Sire to 12.

Here is breeding that was done with Fedor by a highly regarded breeder here:
Exciting Dual Sire Litter Litter Announcement

Zoopsie Daisy vom Dobereich
----------------------------

Dillon:b.2/19/09 d.9/28/12 "The best walks in life are always the briefest"

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post #182 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 03:14 PM
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Clarifications

Sorry, I didn't realize they were banned, but still stand by my conclusion that DCM in a pedigree isn't evidence of a poorly bred dog. Also, concerning DNA testing, so far only the one gene mutation has been identified and it's incidence corresponds to the death rate of Dobes. I certainly think all should be tested to use as breeding guide, to aid in further research, and to give early diagnosis to positive dogs for their care and treatment. Diagnosed dogs .should be tested to see if they are positive...again, it would add research info. Certainly all dogs should continue to be monitored with Holters AND Echocardiograms even if they test negative, because there may be other genes out there. However, I sure don't think the fact that we don't know everything yet is justification for not testing! It seems like an excuse to me. As I said in my previous post, I will never again buy an untested Doberman. If we all insisted on that, we would help get universal testing. We all know that Holters and Echos are only as good as the day they are done. I have a call out to Dr. Meurs to clarify some questions. I will update if I find any significant new information on her findings to date. Clearly, all are in titled to their opini
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post #183 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kobe's Mom View Post
Sorry, I didn't realize they were banned, but still stand by my conclusion that DCM in a pedigree isn't evidence of a poorly bred dog. Also, concerning DNA testing, so far only the one gene mutation has been identified and it's incidence corresponds to the death rate of Dobes. I certainly think all should be tested to use as breeding guide, to aid in further research, and to give early diagnosis to positive dogs for their care and treatment. Diagnosed dogs .should be tested to see if they are positive...again, it would add research info. Certainly all dogs should continue to be monitored with Holters AND Echocardiograms even if they test negative, because there may be other genes out there. However, I sure don't think the fact that we don't know everything yet is justification for not testing! It seems like an excuse to me. As I said in my previous post, I will never again buy an untested Doberman. If we all insisted on that, we would help get universal testing. We all know that Holters and Echos are only as good as the day they are done. I have a call out to Dr. Meurs to clarify some questions. I will update if I find any significant new information on her findings to date. Clearly, all are in titled to their opini
I agree, my post was directed to StarlightDobe as they were responing to someone (bigdogsmalldog) who was banned 5 months ago.

Also, I'm not sure how bigdogsmalldog got a dog sired by Fedor del nasi from Family Dobies. They certainly do not own Fedor, and I can't imagine
del nasi breeding with any of their bitches, especially being that he is located in Slovenia.

Zoopsie Daisy vom Dobereich
----------------------------

Dillon:b.2/19/09 d.9/28/12 "The best walks in life are always the briefest"

Last edited by pdubois64; 07-21-2011 at 04:27 PM.
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post #184 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by pdubois64 View Post
I agree, my post was directed to StarlightDobe as they were responing to someone (bigdogsmalldog) who was banned 5 months ago.

Also, I'm not sure how bigdogsmalldog got a dog sired by Fedor del nasi from Family Dobies. They certainly do not own Fedor, and I can't imagine
del nasi breeding with any of their bitches, especially being that he is located in Slovenia.
Easy enough, import a bitch already in whelp. Looking through the litters on the website, it appears that in all instances where an outside stud was used this is the case.

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post #185 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tnh317 View Post
Easy enough, import a bitch already in whelp. Looking through the litters on the website, it appears that in all instances where an outside stud was used this is the case.
ETA: Oh now I see that's FD's site, that would explain it then.

Zoopsie Daisy vom Dobereich
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Dillon:b.2/19/09 d.9/28/12 "The best walks in life are always the briefest"

Last edited by pdubois64; 07-21-2011 at 04:54 PM.
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post #186 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by pdubois64 View Post
Hmmm. I wonder why Kansadobe had to travel there.
He bred his own bitch, as opposed to buying one already located over there that had been bred and having her shipped over before the puppies are born.

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post #187 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by pdubois64 View Post
The person you are responding to was banned 5 months ago.

While I would not defend FD in any way Del Nasi is a very respectable breeder of Euro Showlines. Fedor is my boys Grandsire, and to me his pedigree looks very typical of any Doberman. Fedor will be 10 next year and his sire Baron Nike lived to 12 and his Sire to 12.

Here is breeding that was done with Fedor by a highly regarded breeder here:
Exciting Dual Sire Litter Litter Announcement
I didnt realize he was banned, also the point I was making was in regards to his bragging about how he could spend 4 grand and get such a fantastic dog and that anyone that could NOT afford that high of a price could not possibly get a good dog. It seems to me that having so many dogs die before 6 years would not constitute such good breeding, especially with heart problems. Now, perhaps I am wrong, Im not an expert, and while it is likely that some of the other dogs can be quite good, or live longer, it just seems to me that having several dogs dying before their 6th birthday isnt such a good thing. I am under the impression that most good breeders are looking to breed dogs that live past 10, and want dogs in their lines who have lived long lives, not ones that have passed on so soon in life. It certainly didnt sound like it made a good argument on his behalf for spending the kind of money he did for a dog, to be bashing us people that chose not to spend that much, and we still got dogs just as good as his.

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post #188 of 199 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tnh317 View Post
He bred his own bitch, as opposed to buying one already located over there that had been bred and having her shipped over before the puppies are born.
I see that now I didn't realize at first that was a link to FD's site, never been there before.

Zoopsie Daisy vom Dobereich
----------------------------

Dillon:b.2/19/09 d.9/28/12 "The best walks in life are always the briefest"
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post #189 of 199 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 08:01 AM
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Family Dobes

My experince with Family Dobes can only be described as fantastic!!! From first contact through today, the experince has been so positive. Shortly after getting my Addy, I experienced a medical crisis and Steve volunteered to keep Addy until I could get through the crisis. Steve was always honest and up front right up to today and can't imagine him being any different in the future.

If Steve is running a puppy mill then he really should start breeding for more litters a year. He will shortly be going broke with the number of litters a year he is having.

Joey in Virginia

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post #190 of 199 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 08:38 AM
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Well it says on their website that they are expecting two litters (BL and BO) in December, less than a week apart. How many litters have they had earlier in the year? How many do they have on the ground right now?


ETS: this is from a thread earlier this year. Objective Insights Wanted on Breeder That Most Love to Hate


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post #191 of 199 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by salisbj View Post
My experince with Family Dobes can only be described as fantastic!!! From first contact through today, the experince has been so positive. Shortly after getting my Addy, I experienced a medical crisis and Steve volunteered to keep Addy until I could get through the crisis. Steve was always honest and up front right up to today and can't imagine him being any different in the future.

If Steve is running a puppy mill then he really should start breeding for more litters a year. He will shortly be going broke with the number of litters a year he is having.

Joey in Virginia

Welcome to DT.

Pretty sure "honest" and "Family Dobes" in the same sentence is a huge oxymoron.

Good luck with your pup, though. I hope your experience continues as good, over the years, early in the day, and al that.

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post #192 of 199 (permalink) Old 10-13-2013, 02:32 PM
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This man is a convicted sex offender--
Re-visiting this old thread I was curious as to what the man's offense was and found out that it was in fact sex with a minor, which of course could mean an 18 or 19 y.o. getting naked with a 16 y.o. It doesn't take much at all to get on the sex offender registry, in fact many years ago when I was 19 there were three separate absolutely consenual incidents which would have gotten me on that registry. Just the other day a teenager was set to be included on the sex offender registry for merely streaking at a football game - he committed suicide because of this.

There appears to be some very insufferable, abusive, and extremely (and apparently admittedly) abrasive people on this forum posting **** which they would never have the gumption to say to someone's face.

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post #193 of 199 (permalink) Old 10-13-2013, 02:46 PM
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Re-visiting this old thread I was curious as to what the man's offense was and found out that it was in fact sex with a minor, which of course could mean an 18 or 19 y.o. getting naked with a 16 y.o. It doesn't take much at all to get on the sex offender registry, in fact many years ago when I was 19 there were three separate absolutely consenual incidents which would have gotten me on that registry. Just the other day a teenager was set to be included on the sex offender registry for merely streaking at a football game - he committed suicide because of this.

There appears to be some very insufferable, abusive, and extremely (and apparently admittedly) abrasive people on this forum posting **** which they would never have the gumption to say to someone's face.
I stated a fact of public record. Didn't editorialize on that, in any way. Just a statement of fact.

And, by law, if you engaged in sex with a legal minor, as a legal adult, then you are legally guilty of statutory rape.

Awesome that you admit that, on a public forum.

You're also guilty of projection. You'll probably have to look that one up

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post #194 of 199 (permalink) Old 10-13-2013, 02:49 PM
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Steve certainly didn't look young in that arrest picture.....sporting his Family Dobes T-shirt...
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post #195 of 199 (permalink) Old 10-13-2013, 02:53 PM
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then you are...guilty of statutory rape.
It happens ALL the time and in the vast majority of cases where it's absolutely consensual no one gets charged (a good friend worked in the sex crimes unit for years and he filled me in on how things work). In the instances I related from decades ago there were no complaints from the girls, good luck getting them to make an issue of it now. lol
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post #196 of 199 (permalink) Old 10-13-2013, 03:37 PM
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It happens ALL the time and in the vast majority of cases where it's absolutely consensual no one gets charged (a good friend worked in the sex crimes unit for years and he filled me in on how things work). In the instances I related from decades ago there were no complaints from the girls, good luck getting them to make an issue of it now. lol
You know, your words here are very concerning to me, as someone who worked in the field.

There are lots of young girls (and young boys) who make bad decisions, oftentimes because there are problems at home. Those decisions can have vast negative impact on their lives.

That is why it is ILLEGAL for them to give consent at that age. It is a legal measure designed to help protect them.

The fact that you find engaging in sex with minors to be funny, and brag-worthy, is very revealing of your true character.

And yes, person attempting to pick a fight over the internet--you--I would say that to your face.

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post #197 of 199 (permalink) Old 10-13-2013, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
There are lots of young girls (and young boys) who make bad decisions, oftentimes because there are problems at home. Those decisions can have vast negative impact on their lives.

That is why it is ILLEGAL for them to give consent at that age. It is a legal measure designed to help protect them.
So, when someone turns the magical 18 they aren't allowed to make strictly legal* mistakes, which, if caught, they are to have their lives entirely ruined over?? (Surely you remember the teenager I previously mentioned who committed suicide over being included on the sex offender registry for merely streaking at a football game).

Get off your high horse (pun not intended) with your faux righteous indignation.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

*I'm thinking the distinction between the terms 'legal' and 'lawful' are lost on you so I won't even bother going there except to say that I've known of several girls who got married at 14 y.o. including my own grandmother. lol
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post #198 of 199 (permalink) Old 10-13-2013, 03:56 PM
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Steve certainly didn't look young in that arrest picture.....sporting his Family Dobes T-shirt...
I'm relatively certain that's not a mug shot as you suggest, most likely a recent update to the registry.
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post #199 of 199 (permalink) Old 10-13-2013, 05:11 PM
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Re-visiting this old thread I was curious as to what the man's offense was and found out that it was in fact sex with a minor, which of course could mean an 18 or 19 y.o. getting naked with a 16 y.o. It doesn't take much at all to get on the sex offender registry, in fact many years ago when I was 19 there were three separate absolutely consenual incidents which would have gotten me on that registry. Just the other day a teenager was set to be included on the sex offender registry for merely streaking at a football game - he committed suicide because of this.

There appears to be some very insufferable, abusive, and extremely (and apparently admittedly) abrasive people on this forum posting **** which they would never have the gumption to say to someone's face.
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It happens ALL the time and in the vast majority of cases where it's absolutely consensual no one gets charged (a good friend worked in the sex crimes unit for years and he filled me in on how things work). In the instances I related from decades ago there were no complaints from the girls, good luck getting them to make an issue of it now. lol
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So, when someone turns the magical 18 they aren't allowed to make strictly legal* mistakes, which, if caught, they are to have their lives entirely ruined over?? (Surely you remember the teenager I previously mentioned who committed suicide over being included on the sex offender registry for merely streaking at a football game).

Get off your high horse (pun not intended) with your faux righteous indignation.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

*I'm thinking the distinction between the terms 'legal' and 'lawful' are lost on you so I won't even bother going there except to say that I've known of several girls who got married at 14 y.o. including my own grandmother. lol
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I'm relatively certain that's not a mug shot as you suggest, most likely a recent update to the registry.

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