Hello, I'm Looking for Help Looking for a Breeder - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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Hello, I'm Looking for Help Looking for a Breeder

Hello, I'm new to the site so I hope I'm posting this in the proper forum. If not I'm sorry.

Anyway I've been reading up on this breed for almost four years now attempting to be reasonable and smart in making the decision to own one of these amazing dogs. Ultimately after all this time I've decided that yes, I'm dedicated to spending years of my life with a Doberman Pinscher. I'm looking for a dog that will be a great companion/exercise buddy. Next month I'm moving into my first house that has lots of yard space in a well established neighborhood, so space is not gonna be a problem, which is part of the reason I am now actively looking for a breeder. That being said I'm interested in the Euro lines, as I know from research that there are good breeders here in the US with Euro lines. I really like the look of those broad chests and that almost square looking muzzle that seems to be common among their lines. That being said I've taken notice that some are against the Euro lines for things like aggression or health which does naturally make me hesitate, which is why I'm wondering if you guys know of reputable breeders in the US who health test? Of course I'm not looking for an aggressive dog that could put Cerberus out of a job, and I'm aware that" you pay for what you get" is a serious thing thanks to BYBs (scum).

I do NOT want to put money in the pocket of someone who does not actually care about their dogs quality of life, cheating not only the buyer but more importantly the dog out of a healthy life. I should note that I live in Missouri, and thus far I'm willing to travel ten hours from home to visit and pick up a puppy. I'm not comfortable with air travel for a puppy if it can be helped. I'm probably forgetting to mention something but I'm happy to answer questions, I just want it to be known that I'm very serious about committing to a breeder, this will be my first ever Doberman and I'd like to avoid unnecessary heart ache as much as possible, I know somethings just happen though. My experience with medium-large breeds includes: Chow Chows (four in my lifetime), Boxer, & a Shar-Pei

So any help or info. you can provide would be great!

Extra: I'm also aware of the DPCA website and looking for breeders there, but I'm SO hesitant to take certain things at face-value on the internet
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 03:09 AM
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Depending on how long you are willing to wait as I think all puppies in her current litter are spoken for (could be wrong) I can not recommend Suzan Shipp (J Bar S) in warrensburg, Mo enough. She is amazing! You can do a search for the thread "J Bar S" and see recent info. Another thing to mention is the UDC nationals is in Missouri this year-- the last week of April! That would be a great place to see some Dobermans and meet potential breeders in person. :-)
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 10:11 AM
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Look at Old drum dobermans. She's a member here but does not post frequently. There really are not any reputable breeders in the US breeding 100% Euro showline dogs.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 10:21 AM
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question: the breeders that you say are in the U.S. breeding Euro show lines. Are they then sending their own dogs back to Europe to get titled? Are they showing in AKC? or what are they doing to show that what they are producing meets some sort of standard? These are serious questions as to be honest I don't have an interest in Euros so I haven't checked out any Euro breeders here in the US
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks so much for that info. I will definitely check them out. Also, had no idea that the UDC Nationals would be here, that's perfect! I'm always willing to do the extra leg work to make a conscious decision, as for waiting I'm willing to wait for the right breeder and the right pup. When it's meant to be, it'll be. And after four years of off-and-on research and looking for the right house for me and a dog like a Doberman, I think I can hash out some patience

I had considered adoption but I didn't go that route because I decided it would be irresponsible on my part; because this would be my first Doberman and I didn't want to make the mistake of expecting things to come up roses, adoption is in my opinion something that should be considered more heavily. It would not be fair to the dog to have an owner inexperienced with the breed regardless of research and other owned breeds, I ultimately decided that I would be more comfortable adopting in the future once I'm more acclimated to not only the breed and their attributes but in my own confidence caring for the breed. In a way puppies are easier IMO because I'll be able to not only watch and learn a long side my future pup, but I'll be able to learn through trial and error how the breed fits with me and my family in reality, since research only takes us so far.

So, I'm ready and open to learning more as this journey continues. I assume the UDC Nationals has a website they update on the regular about the event so I'll check around for that and J Bars like you mentioned. Thanks so much!
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for that, I'll check them out!
I kinda figured there wasn't any 100% Euro lines here in the US, thank you for confirming that for me though. I kinda figured that given some of their traits in health and aggression (etc) that most US breeders would be looking to breed that out as much as possible to create a safe and sound dog. When I first began this journey into checking out the breed I originally wanted 100% Euro, but after doing all that research I no longer determined that Euro did not mean the US or US-Euro Cross was any less a high drive dog, either way I would be getting the exercise buddy I needed. So I've scaled back into reality since the beginning XD
But I won't lie and say I'm not in love with the overall look of a Euro dog, they're heavier in muscle definition from what I have managed to gather, from pictures and youtube videos though I take all that with a pinch of salt. But as a single female I kinda want that intimidation factor when I go out for a walk or run, a little visual piece of mind so to speak. But again, don't want a highly aggressive dog that I can't take with me anywhere. I'm not looking to create some suped up bodyguard, usually people see a Doberman and that's enough for them to move to the other side of the street LOL
But I've noticed that Euro and Euro/Cross Dobes have that extra umph of intimidation. Really won't lie about that being appealing. But I'm not the type of person who goes looking to put myself in a dangerous position (rule number one of personal security), so that's why I'm also not looking for a dog that may be prone to aggression or one I intend to have trained in K9 Protection, I don't put myself in a position or place that may prove unsafe. But I do like camping in the woods, going on road trips or wandering around my town for some fresh air. I don't know if I made this make any sense LOL
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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I've come across a few that claim to have Euro's with titles and all the bells and whistles, but most of those seem to be studs or bitches that they've purchased from over seas who already have titles. I'm not entirely certain that some of them have dogs that are active in the American circuit or have any American titles, I could be wrong though. It's part of why I've hesitated just jumping on the band wagon and accepting what a breeder says on their website as the truth. I don't show or anything, so I'm not personally interested in all that. I'm really just a typical owner, titles are mostly fancy words to me that I can barely read with any understanding of what that title may actually mean, part of the reason I'm also here trying to find knowledgeable people. My concerns lie more with health/longevity, non-aggressive and the dogs ability/willingness to learn.
As to what standards they are breeding to I can't really say either, other than that some seem to be breeding a dog they believe has all the looks and drive of a Euro but the temperament and health of an American, and others seem to spout obvious sales propaganda. That's what I've gathered anyway, but since I don't actually know versus what people here on this forum do know I can only speculate
Although I look forward to some person's knowledge on this subject, it was one that kinda skipped my mind, glad you brought it up.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 11:50 AM
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Have you checked out United Doberman Club - most are working breeders with Euro imports. They provide conformation, obedience and IPO trials. In fact our club Mid Central working Doberman club is hosting the UDC 2017 Nationals in Sedalia, Missouri April 25th through the 29th. You can find us on UDC 2017 Nationals FB page. Lots of info. And I posted info here - We are also hosting a WAE.

Those who care about correct structure show Intl and UDC. Both are judged by AKC judges and you get a written critique as the judging is Euro style. UDC requires a Temperament test and a working title such as BH or CD to complete the CH requirement. UDC also offers a Breed survey which is equivalent to the ZTP but with more health testing required.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks so much for that info Dobs4ever! I'll certainly give all that a thorough look over. I actually finished filling out your puppy questionnaire online LOL I look forward to your valuable input, and I am certainly excited for April <3
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 04:43 PM
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I can't say anything one way or another about the Euro thing, but wanted to comment about flying a puppy. Good breeders won't ship you a puppy*, but at 8 weeks a Doberman puppy is usually still just small enough to still be allowed to fly "under seat" so some breeders will let you fly to them, pick your puppy up, pay the fee and fly home with it home in-cabin. You would have to talk to your breeder of interest.

*Both because they want to meet you and because shipping a puppy puts a lot of stress on it.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Busytown View Post
I can't say anything one way or another about the Euro thing, but wanted to comment about flying a puppy. Good breeders won't ship you a puppy*, but at 8 weeks a Doberman puppy is usually still just small enough to still be allowed to fly "under seat" so some breeders will let you fly to them, pick your puppy up, pay the fee and fly home with it home in-cabin. You would have to talk to your breeder of interest.

*Both because they want to meet you and because shipping a puppy puts a lot of stress on it.
There are a few good breeders who imported years ago and have all Euro breeding - They are members of UDC and primarily just work their dogs. I don't know if they are still active here or not but, Lorna and Patrick O'Conner two of the nicest people you will be breed all Euro and Lorna is a member here.

That is not exactly true - I have shipped puppies and as far as stressing a puppy baloney. If the puppy has a solid temperament and has been worked with and crate trained they ship with no problem what so ever and they should. Some of my closest families have been with me over 20 years and I have never met them yet they are on their third or fourth Doberman from me They are Dobermans and I know several very good breeders who ship. Some are AKC breeder judges!!! I will not ship out of the US, however because that puts the puppy way to far away IMHO and all mine are cropped and docked as I refuse to pander to an AR agenda which much of Europe is following.

You do have to screen and every one can have different guidelines. You have to be able to read people just like you read the dogs!!! You would be surprised what you learn when you actually listen to folks.
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Last edited by Dobs4ever; 02-05-2017 at 05:54 PM. Reason: forgot to add statement
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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I would agree with both of you honestly, I'm just not fond of the idea of flying a puppy. Mostly because I have not flown in years myself, I like road trips
Hopefully my future puppy will like road trips too! <3
But that's part of why my search is starting so close to home, I only want to ship a pup IF I literally can't do it any other way. But I do prefer the idea of being close by for pre-puppy visits and the like. So my no-flight rule is more personal preference, though I have heard of a few pups being sick after being given drugs to keep them calm or whatever, although I've never heard of any long-term issues after the pup gets to its new home.
So yeah, mostly the preference for being nearby allows me to meet the breeder face-to-face and hopefully meet the dogs on the property and see the conditions for where the pups would be born, etc.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Scarlet_Legion View Post
I've come across a few that claim to have Euro's with titles and all the bells and whistles, but most of those seem to be studs or bitches that they've purchased from over seas who already have titles. I'm not entirely certain that some of them have dogs that are active in the American circuit or have any American titles, I could be wrong though. It's part of why I've hesitated just jumping on the band wagon and accepting what a breeder says on their website as the truth. I don't show or anything, so I'm not personally interested in all that. I'm really just a typical owner, titles are mostly fancy words to me that I can barely read with any understanding of what that title may actually mean, part of the reason I'm also here trying to find knowledgeable people. My concerns lie more with health/longevity, non-aggressive and the dogs ability/willingness to learn.
As to what standards they are breeding to I can't really say either, other than that some seem to be breeding a dog they believe has all the looks and drive of a Euro but the temperament and health of an American, and others seem to spout obvious sales propaganda. That's what I've gathered anyway, but since I don't actually know versus what people here on this forum do know I can only speculate
Although I look forward to some person's knowledge on this subject, it was one that kinda skipped my mind, glad you brought it up.
Those who have not titled dogs themselves are just buying dogs from Europe when their career there is done. They are mostly BYB or puppy brokers riding the coat tails of someone else's work. They are not a member of any breed club so don't support anything that would help them gain more knowledge about the dogs they are breeding. That puts temperaments up in the air. Kimbertal used to buy retired American champions until breeders got smart then they went to Europe to buy retired titled dogs. They themselves know little if anything about temperament or correct structure.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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Really? That's interesting, glad I was hesitant to give any of those breeders a call. I'd hate to somehow be caught up in the 'glitz' only to be sorry later. Really glad I decided to sign up to this forum, this is helping to confirm things in my mind and I very much appreciate everyone's knowledge on the breed.
You guys are really helping me to set up a solid and realistic foundation as a future first time Doberman owner
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 09:48 AM
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I would agree with both of you honestly, I'm just not fond of the idea of flying a puppy. Mostly because I have not flown in years myself, I like road trips
Hopefully my future puppy will like road trips too! <3
But that's part of why my search is starting so close to home, I only want to ship a pup IF I literally can't do it any other way. But I do prefer the idea of being close by for pre-puppy visits and the like. So my no-flight rule is more personal preference, though I have heard of a few pups being sick after being given drugs to keep them calm or whatever, although I've never heard of any long-term issues after the pup gets to its new home.
So yeah, mostly the preference for being nearby allows me to meet the breeder face-to-face and hopefully meet the dogs on the property and see the conditions for where the pups would be born, etc.
Why on earth would you drug a puppy to ship it??? That I definitely feel is crazy and is an indication the there is a temperament problem. It is a new learning experience for the puppy as long as the puppy has a solid temperament and has had great socialization by the breeder prior to shipping I don't ship often but when I do I do so with confidence as I have never had a problem shipping except a missed connection so the puppy arrives a couple hours later.

For me it is like show breeders who do not want the puppy to have any obedience training - I always ask "Why is the puppy too dumb?" Dobermans are extremely smart and training at an early age is the best because they are like a sponge. ALL my puppies are taught - SIT - down - stand as their basic. The stand command is part of obedience exercises and is the beginning of a stack and a free stack. TRAINING it is all about training. These dogs are SMART if I have taught stand along with other commands then the dog knows what stand means and so will learn to stack from there.
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 10:41 AM
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OP, make sure you are understanding that there is a Euro "showline" look and a Euro "working" look, which I think is even more distinct here in the US. I have no problems with people thinking they want a Euro looking dog, but often what they don't understand is that here in the US most of the people breeding Euro lines are breeding working lines, which may not have the same "look" you are seeing by browsing photos online. If you are choosing purely based on looks you may not be happy with the type of dog you are getting, so be really up front with the breeders you are talking to about WHY you are looking at Euro lines. Yes, there are pet puppies in all litters, but some of these lines are really bred to work and may not be suitable if you aren't prepared to meet their needs.

Conversely, you can find heavy boned dogs in American lines as well, if you look for it. Just be open to finding the right dog with the right temperament. I'm not trying to steer you one way or the other, just making sure you know what is out there and are honest with what you want in a dog and what you are willing to do.

On the topic of shipping...my girl was shipped up to Minnesota from Texas with ZERO issues. Her crate was brought out in the oversized luggage area and she was peering out at us like, hey, that was fun, what's next? Her breeder prepared her for flight by playing a CD of airplane sounds from the time she was very young and she had been well socialized to all kinds of movement. Flight didn't phase her in the least.


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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 04:07 PM
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As far as shipping I can see why some may be leery of sending a puppy by plane. It usually is due to hearing some horror story. But you have to remember before you had a Doberman you heard all kinds of horror stories about Dobermans. Most were untrue, some were because of misuse and others because of bad breeding. Like everything else you do research on what the procedures of each airline. They have a lot of rules in this regard to insure the safe arrival of any animal sent.
I have sent pups for Florida to Michigan, I have sent dogs to Germany for training. (IPO) I have never had an issue either way. The ones who were shipped to Germany were accompanied by someone to make sure upon arrival they were taken care of. I myself would rather not fly. Now I will drive across the US to pick up or deliver a dog.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 04:23 PM
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Hello from Iowa and welcome to the forums! This is a great place to start your search for your breeder/future puppy.

As far as Missouri breeders I second Old Drum Dobermans, quick responses when I inquired about a puppy on the site, though they didn't have any when we were looking (we got Zuko from Cambria Dobermans in Indiana).

Dobermans are the best. I fell in love with them as I was researching in college and loved not only their elegent look but their personalities. Zuko is just the best, goofy as all heck but we couldn't imagein life without him. He's always by our side, wanting to be touched, petted, loved, and played with. He's 4.5 now but still the same puppy we took home, hasn'[t changed at ALL. He's a red. Did you have any color preferences? I knew I always wanted a red male, but if we were to get another I would LOVE a fawn female. They're just so beautiful
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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LOTS of great responses from you guys!
@ Dobs4ever I really have heard of puppies and grown dogs being shipped and given some kinda drug, I didn't think it was thing until I had heard about offhandedly on an episode of HGTV (some couple bringing their dogs to an island they were moving to or something). It was kinda like when you buy a new car and suddenly you can't stop seeing that same car everywhere after you bought it; that's what hearing about the drugging was like when I heard about it, it was suddenly all over the place. I really don't agree with it; and even if it supposedly does not have long term ramifications I can't trust that at face value, they barely make medications and foods safe for people in the long term! No thank you. Also sounds like your pups go to their new homes with excellent learning foundations.

@MeadowCat I hear ya on that. That's actually pretty awesome of that breeder to go that extra mile for the pups, kinda like people who buy those infant sounds CDs, that's actually very interesting. Yeah I think in my first post I called it "muscle" when I actually meant heavier boning, apparently my fingers took a vacation from my brain for that brief moment. When I first began considering the Doberman I had wanted 100% Euro but I realized pretty quickly that the breed as whole is high-drive and that my outdoor/exercise buddy was pretty much a sure thing regardless of Euro or American, I'd still be getting a dog with a lot of "Let's Go!" ability. As for working or show is kinda where I get stuck, like you said a pet can be had from any line depending on an individual puppies temperament. When I think of a working dog I think of special needs/assistance dogs, K9 unit/military dogs, search/rescue etc. I'm not sure what the 'working' title encompasses beyond that. My Uncle is retired Green Beret who served four consecutive tours in Vietnam and he now has his Chow Chow because he has seizures, so I'm a bit aware of that aspect to working dogs. But my knowledge is a bit limited beyond that. In fact any additional info you can provide would be excellent, I want to make an informed decision.

@RMcIntyre I get what you mean. I grew up with Chow Chows, known as a territorial and aggressive breed. But I loved each and every one of them. Were they territorial? To people or animals they didn't know, absolutely. Did they ever bite or kill? Nope, not one. In fact my first Chow was a female short-haired who tattled on me and my brother by barking if we left the yard. She was in mine and my brother's shared room when we were little when a robber broke in, she was not happy LOL She even alerted our neighbor to a break-in at their house once She was a good dog, even if she was a tattle tail.
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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@jeitzen Thank you, I've been really happy with the info coming in!

Your Zuko sounds awesome! I'm excited for future experiences myself with my some day Dobe
My color choices so far are between Black/Tan and a Blue, Isabella (fawn) in third. My Dad is really trying to push me into a Red cause that's what he had as a kid LOL I go to college and it's about twenty minutes from my Dad's house so it's a bit more economic for me to live with him, so he's jokingly pushing for that Red. But for now, I'm inclined towards Black/Tan and Blue. I really love the intensity of the breeds eyes though, OMG I love it!
I met two red females at a dark park several years back, they were big girls although they were still young. I feel like I was the only person besides their owners who was not intimidated by their stare, I told one the girls' Daddy that I just wanted to take her home with me. Daisy, I think was her name. Ugh, so much love!
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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-07-2017, 03:05 PM
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You might try Kansa Dobermans in Wichita, KS. They breed euro with American lines some. They also show. He is an AKC show judge last I heard.

Kansa Quality Dobermans
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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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Really? I'll give them a look, thanks!
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 12:36 PM
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has anyone heard of hismerh kennels?
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 01:40 PM
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Not sure where in MO you are, but there are a few all breed shows coming up at the Purina Event Center in Grays Summit, MO where you could watch the dogs and meet some breeders; the DPC-MO is having a specialty there in May as well.

My dog is from a MO breeder, but he is South American lines, not Euro.
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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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According to Cortana I'm just shy of four hours from Grays Summit, MO. I'll look that up, cause I'm very willing to travel at least ten hours if I have to, and four hours is more than manageable
I mean; I occasionally travel two to three hours to go to IKEA or the mall and even some nerdy events I enjoy, the least I can do is some travel for a living thing right? LOL I even drove to Atchison, KS once just to sight see the haunted houses cause I was bored. So I'm looking forward to these events, it's like my timing is all just turning out right LOL
All this information gets me more and more excited!!
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