Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner

Second-Guessing My Breeder Now

3K views 17 replies 11 participants last post by  Fitzmar Dobermans 
#1 ·
My male black/rust pup has been home for a while and is settled in now, so no matter what, he's not going anywhere.

BUT...

I'm second-guessing the breeder I got him from based on the reactions I've gotten from within the doberman community when I state where he came from.

I liked the breeder's set-up and all of their other dogs when we visited the place. I liked our pup's parents and their temperament. Throughout 5 months, the breeder has answered every question I've asked. They did not act shady or like they had anything to hide. When we asked about DCM and vWD, they were transparent and said the dog's father carries vWD but the mother doesn't and that in decades, they've never had a dog die of DCM but I don't think they actually tested for that. The dog has limited AKC registration. He gets compliments on his beauty. I am truly happy with my doberman. I talked with others who had dobermans from this breeder before getting on the waiting list for our boy and all had great things to say and none had issues with their doberman.The vet says he's perfect and one of the prettiest dobermans he's seen in 30 years. (Maybe he tells everyone that? haha)

Other doberman owners think he's so handsome and great until I say where he came from, then the insults range from "Your dog is going to drop dead" to "Enjoy your BYB dog" to "there's no way you did research before you got him."

I didn't find negative info on the breeder until I actually joined doberman online communities. The google searches and asking those with dogs from this breeder did NOT yield negative results. The only negative thing I saw before joining online Doberman communities was where someone had my breeder confused with an actual multiple-breed puppy mill that has since been shut down.

Maybe I was dumb for not joining online communities first or going to a DPCA. Don't get me wrong, I love my dog and wouldn't trade him for a $5000 "perfect breeder" doberman at this point, but I feel ignorant and like I missed something if so many others within the Doberman community despise this breeder.

*I would say the breeder's name, but I don't want to do anything against the rules or create a witch hunt. If I'm allowed to say the name, just let me know. I see other threads have said stuff about this particular breeder before.*
 
See less See more
#2 ·
Frankly, if someone has been in the breed for "decades" and has "never" had a dog they owned or bred have DCM I think they are either lying, grossly uninformed, or unbelievably lucky (seeing as how an estimated 50% of Dobes develop it). Good breeders will do annual testing (holters, echoes, etc) on their own dogs, and insist on testing on any outside dog they breed to, as well.

PS: No dog is perfect. Even the perfect ones. :)
 
#3 ·
We all run the risk of losing a doberman to DCM at a premature age no matter of the parentage.

I think your opening sentence says it all.

What kind of person tells the proud owner of a new pup that it will drop dead , that is a very cruel thing to say.

I really doubt that your vet has not seen a prettier dobe but if you post a few pics i could be persuaded to agree!>:)
 
#4 ·
I've known of horrible BYB bred dogs that lived into their teens and very well bred dogs with great longevity on both sides die young. That said, a good breeder who health tests and studies pedigrees for longevity is a much better risk - not to mention having a good example of the breed, and a breeder who will always be there for you.

Any breeder who claims that they have not ever lost a dog to Cardio is either really new to the breed and have not experienced it yet, have gotten crazy lucky, or have their head buried in the sand..... I personally will bet on door number 3. I personally health test every year, study pedigrees for good longevity, and have still lost two dogs to sudden death - which is not exactly the same thing as DCM - but still a heart related death even when they are 11.
I don't know who your breeder is, but at this point, you have your dog so enjoy him!
 
#5 ·
I'll be honest. We got him from Shady Grove Kennel. I was laughed out of one group on social media for getting a dog from there. His father is huge-- 120 pounds at 4 years old. In actuality, he is the largest doberman I have ever seen in all my life. They had a 100 pound male on the other side of the fence and you could see the contrast. Maybe I went on a "good day" but their facility was extremely nice and clean and the breeder herself was very transparent about not DCM testing regularly when I asked her to her face. She was straight up that our boy's father is a vWD carrier and that our pup could as well carry it, but he won't be breeding so it shouldn't matter. She sent us home with a shot record, AKC reg papers, several packets of advice, a bag of dog food, vitamins, and calcium supplements. She required that he be vetted within 5 days and she see proof of that and he came with a 3-year health guarantee. From my experience with other breeds, that's a generally OK breeder. The vet she uses seemed to be OK as well, and the vet does laser ear cropping and nylon inserts for new owners who choose to have it done. There's no "breeder hand cropping" (I didn't even know that was a thing!) I was accused of having a dog with breeder hand-cropped ears.

In my neck of the woods, red flags for BYBs were things like: breeding multiple breeds at once, CKC registration at best, no parents on site, dirty conditions, dozens of dogs at once. Now, when I got my pup, SGK had 3 litters at once, all a couple weeks older than the next.
I am about to go get full health testing on him just for my records and peace of mind.
 
#6 ·
I wouldn't dwell on your decision. Yeah it may have been a poor one, but you were ill informed and you will do better next time if you decide to stick with the breed. The important thing now is your current pup. Do the best you can with socialization, training, and keeping him well exercised and at a healthy weight for the rest of his life. We are here for pointers.
 
#7 ·
We have all been there. Do your research next go around. Enjoy your dog. I agree that someone is grossly overstating that they have never had a problem with Cardio issues. 50% of this breed dies from it. I would make very sure you are aware of what tests can be performed and for your peace of mind, do them.
 
#14 ·
First of all welcome to Doberman Talk.

Many of us started our love affair with the breed with Dobermans from less than ideal breeders. You have your dog now, you love your dog. Doing right for the dog you have now will earn you the respect of the Doberman community.

Read and learn about the breed, as this will benefit your current dog. Next time you get a Doberman, you will be prepared to make a better choice of breeder.

And please share photos of your dog with us.
Re-read these posts. I encourage you to stick around here, get involved with a Doberman club if there is one local to you, learn about why we support the kinds of breeders we do, love the heck out of your dog, train him well, do appropriate health testing as he gets older....

I hope that he's a great ambassador for the breed, and so are you. And when someone asks you about where to get a great Doberman, you'll know how to steer them to the DPCA breeder directory, your local club, tell them what to look for in a good breeder, etc. And you'll know how to tell them what to watch out for, too.

People learn and grow if their minds are open. Most people here are not going to shame you for buying a dog using the best information you had; many of us have done the same. Many of us also learned from that experience and wanted to make different choices the next time, out of a love for this breed, out of a desire to preserve and protect it, and a desire to support people doing what we think is the best for it.

Welcome to the forum! Please give us some pictures of your pup!
 
#8 ·
Huh, my post got lost somewhere.... Guess I'll see if I can't remember what I said.
.
Three litters on the ground is a red flag.

While there might be some BYB doing their own ear cropping, unless they are a vet, they are doing it illegally, so there shouldn't be any "breeder hand cropping". However, a skilled cropping vet usually cuts the ears free hand, as opposed to using a template.

A lot of less than scrupulous breeders word their health guarantee to where they are practically worthless. Take hip dysplasia, for example. They frequently only guarantee hips up to the age of two, state they will only cover "crippling HD", and require you to provide proof of an OFA rating. The problems with that are a) you can't get an OFA rating until the dog is at least two, and b) who defines "crippling"? A dog with mild dysplasia might be in excruciating pain, while another with essentially no hip joints could never take a lame step in their life. Which one is "crippled"?

Love your guy. If you want to be sure of his vWD status, go ahead and order the test to verify he's either clear or carrier. You can go ahead and have an OFA hip evaluation done when he's old enough, if you want to. Make sure you do holters and echoes starting when he's two or three. Most importantly, love him.
 
#9 ·
You visited the kennel, met with the owner, saw the parents, and spoke with previous buyers. And have a wonderful companion! Don't believe internet commenters who dismiss any breeder that doesn't meet their criteria, as a BYB. I've said here before, that if only Dobermans that are clear of all genetic disease markers, and who are champion titled are allowed to be bred, then the breed would become prohibitively expensive - available only to the rich and elite - and would die out from the limited gene pool.

You made a good decision for a pet quality dog. Don't let people make you second guess yourself.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for all the tips and input! If we end up with another Dobie down the road, we won't use the same breeder and will do the research beyond just google and talking to people who have a Dobie from a particular breeder.

Right now, it is what it is, and he's truly exactly what we dreamed of with a Doberman... so far anyway. I will try to get pictures posted on my profile and in the Newbie thread soon!
 
#11 · (Edited)
Most of the health testing done is not done until they are over 2 years old - so don't worry about it yet. You can order a DNA test for the VWD if you want - it is just a mouth swab. Vetgen and vetnostics are two companies that you can order from.

At age two, I do a baseline blood workup with full thyroid panel and repeat that every couple of years until about age 7/8 then I do it every year.
Between 2/3 is a good age to do a baseline cardiac ultrasound. Many Doberman clubs have cardiac clinics where the cost is about 1/2 that of going to the specialist on your own. This is a test that needs to be done about once a year and you should add a 24 hour holter to that by about age 4. Lots of pet owners don't do heart testing - but they should! Catching the disease early and starting medication can add literally years to their life.
Enjoy your puppy! You could have done better for a breeder, but you could have done worse too. We learn as we go, and if you fall in love with the breed, then your next one will be found with more information.

I do have to say that I looked at the website quickly and that whole ear cropping thing is just totally weird! I've never heard of doing an insert at cropping time, and most ears (even show crops) stand in about 4 months or so.
 
#16 ·
Most of the health testing done is not done until they are over 2 years old - so don't worry about it yet. You can order a DNA test for the VWD if you want - it is just a mouth swab. Vetgen and vetnostics are two companies that you can order from.
Thanks for that.

I'm getting a vWD mouth swab done in a few days actually. I know the mother is clear and the father carries, but I just want to know if my little guy carries.
 
#12 ·
First of all welcome to Doberman Talk.

Many of us started our love affair with the breed with Dobermans from less than ideal breeders. You have your dog now, you love your dog. Doing right for the dog you have now will earn you the respect of the Doberman community.

Read and learn about the breed, as this will benefit your current dog. Next time you get a Doberman, you will be prepared to make a better choice of breeder.

And please share photos of your dog with us.
 
#15 ·
My boy is from a reputable breeder, but I'm still going to be health testing him once he reaches 2/3, regardless. Sometimes its the luck of the draw and it scares me that I could lose him so young -- I want him to hit double digits (his father is 10 now *touch wood*) and still be healthy, but nothing can guarantee it. Don't regret your decision -- love your puppy and be sure to health test if you can. :)


I admittedly had to do the same thing. There's a female there that weighs more than my boy who is almost 18 months and is lean, and a male that weighs almost as much as I do. Pretty scary. :(
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top