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Looking for a European breeder in Ontario

8K views 27 replies 17 participants last post by  Isys 
#1 ·
Hi guys,

Looking for someone here in Ontario that specializes in European Dobermanns only.

I spoke with the people at havens near Thunder Bay and there's no pups until the summer of 2017.

I am located in the Hamilton area and I've been searching steady.


Any help would be appreciated. Worst case scenario, I'll get a dog imported but the shipping costs are very high.
 
#2 ·
Hilltop haven is not an ethical reputable breeder. Be cautious with her, as unless she has altered her breeding practices she is breeding for cash nothing more nothing less.

It is very difficult at this time to find ethical breeders breeding only euro lines.
If i'm not mistaken Gatehouse (I could be wrong) has introduced euro into the lines and has some very nice dogs.
What is it about 'euro' you're interested in? There are breeders out there with heavier boned dogs that do things correctly if it is the bone structure that draws you in.
 
#4 ·
I'm not understanding what you mean 'that's how they should be'

Unless you're looking for working lines.

You're not going to have an easy time finding a euro breeder that does health testing and titling in some venue. Good luck in your search.
 
#8 ·
Hi there, I am also looking for a Euro Doberman but so hard to find a Euro Breeder in Ontario. I know people have written that Hilltop Haven is all about money but are her dogs healthy and live long? I don't mind breeders are breeding for money, I just care about whether the dogs are healthy.
 
#10 ·
Breeders who breed for money are not breeding for health or longevity. They simply aren't, period. They don't spend money travelling and titling to prove their dogs, they don't bother researching pedigrees for health issues OR to find the best stud/dam for their dog, they don't treat them in ways that foster great temperaments, they don't get necessary health testing, they don't belong to breed-specific clubs...so they don't know their stuff.

PLEASE OH PLEASE research puppy mills and backyard breeders before you continue on with your life involving dogs. Volunteer at a shelter or breed rescue to see firsthand what happens from these types of breeders.

I want a dobe more than anything in the world right now, so I know how it feels to want one asap! I've been researching all year, contacting breeders, and having no luck. I live in Missouri, possibly the capital of puppy mills/byb, and I could very easily go get a dog by throwing down some cash. (Or by walking out into my yard, since we're the local dump spot for people who keep having puppies but can't take care of them/sell them quickly enough...) It would cost way, way more in the long run in both health and happiness. And possibly safety.

Please do not make that kind of decision without it being a truly informed decision. The realities of those situations are frightening and sad.
 
#9 ·
The problem with people who are “just breeding for money” is that they often skip important health testing and care to make as big a profit as they can.

They often will not do ear cropping, again for a bigger profit, to “let the new owner decide how they want to have it done” which is an additional cost the breeder should be taking care of. One assumes a reputable breeder knows good vets to go to who will do a good job with a crop and that the breeder gives a good start to the puppy’s care after the cropping so that the new owner won’t have to figure it out all by themselves.

A breeder who does not get the ears cropped leaves a new owner who may go to a vet who does a terrible job, may not know how to check that the puppy’s ears do not get infected during the healing process, and also may not know how to post the ears properly, for example.

A good breeder is there to help out new owners with whatever problems they may have with their new puppy.

You just will not find that in folks who are “in it for the money” They take your cash and run--in all probability you will never hear from them again.

Reputable breeders breed because they love the doberman and they want to make the breed better. So much money and time needs to be spent to turn out happy healthy puppies that it is rare that a breeder can make money over the long run--it is an act done out of love for the breed.
 
#12 ·
I purchased a Doberman from Hilltophaven over 4 years ago, and have been in constant contact with the breeder ever since. She is always available for help and guidance when needed, and stands behind her dogs. I have visited her home, her dogs live in the house as part of the family and most of her time is spent with them. As someone who has personal experience with this breeder, I can tell you that “breeding for cash” couldn't be further from the truth.

Her dogs are tested for vwd, thyroid, hips, elbows, eyes, heart, etc., and she owns her own holter monitor. She drives roughly 8 hours into the US to have her puppies ears cropped by a reputable vet, and they do not go to their new owners until they are completely healed and posted.

She trains her dogs in Schutzhund, occasionally shows in conformation, as well as occasional agility courses. I have visited the Thunder Bay Schutzhund Club with her to spectate and watch her dogs work, as I may be interested in joining in the future.
 
#13 ·
YEt she has titled in nothing. Has bred to a line of dog that knowingly die early from dcm... please explain how that benefits anything other Jan her pocket book?

I can train in a multitude of things and enter trials and never earn a title and what does that prove? Her reasoning why she didn't titles the one female (when I was in contact with her) was that the female did not enjoy showing...
she's also been known to broker dogs from over seas (she was advertising this on kijiji)

While you may be wowed by her, there are a lot of reasons why she hits the radar as less than and ethical reputable breeder.
 
#15 ·
Her breeding practices do not fall under what is considered ethical reputable by parent clubs or anyone involved in the breed.
She chooses not to title and yet breeds l. this is classic back yard breeder tactic... she is training in different sports/venues and has yet to title...

I had spoken with her on several occasions in the past and once she started breeding to altobello that was all I needed to know about her practices.

Ethical reputable breeders title in at least one venue. They prove that their dogs meet breed standard by an impartial third party, they prove they are trainable and they prove that the believed in the dog and their training to test them again by an impartial third party. She has Not done this. She is the epitome of a back yard breeder. Breeding to champion lines and using someone else's hard work (or even a purchased title depending on what and where) to build her foundation upon.
If she wanted to be an ethical reputable breeder there are absolutely ways to do it, I'm not sure why she is choosing not to.
 
#19 ·
@ Tia...

One is not required to breed Dobermans to have an educated and proper opinion on what constitutes a reputable breeder. Not only do I not breed my dogs. I never seriously compete with them.They are simply my pets, my buddies, part of my family. That does not mean I don't want the healthiest dog possible, with a good temperament and who is physically correct to breed standards

That does not mean that I can't separate the wheat from the chaff when is comes to Doberman breeders. Its not rocket science. There are a number of basic clues. And, they have mostly been pointed out to you. Take it for what it is worth.

John
Portland OR
 
#20 ·
Oh my John I know that. My Vet doesn't breed dogs but I assume he knows a fair amount. My problem is a faceless, nameless person referring to a breeder as unethical when that assertion is completely false. Someone wrote on the forum to inquire about a particular breeder and got ridiculous reply defaming an individual unjustly. Wanna know people don't show there dogs? Because people like Sieya are there, turning the dog community into one big competition with a title and a judge (we all know they are totally impartial and never show bias). Somehow that is the determining factor upon how good and healthy a dog will be. Although the title escapes me, there is a wonderful documentary done to show what the show breeding practice has done to the gene poll of these dogs, I encourage you to watch it. HH's last litter was in 2015 with the next in 2017, hardly a money making enterprise if you ask me. Since when is it wrong for someone to have a partner in business. Since when did semen loose it's potency simply because it landed on another continent?

So Stryker01 you're in luck because I can give you a real review. I happen to have first hand knowledge of Stephanie and her dogs because good golly I actually own one and didn't just troll a website. Stephanie is a absolute sweetheart and although I live 3 provinces away and have never met her we have developed a great relationship. As a matter of fact, HH has a closed member FB page that we all belong to and stay in touch on a regular basis. Certification of health was provided with all the typical Dobie stuff negative. Hips, elbows, eyes, thyroid, Vwb, all negative. She was seen by a vet upon arrival as per the contract to ensure claim of health. Of course she was fine, the vet even noted how strong her heart is. I never intended to show her, that's not my bag and have no interest. I am however very active and wanted a dog to match me. My last Doberman (NA bloodlines) was a sweetheart and a wonderful pet, the similarities end there though. I cannot predict the personality of every future pup but this dog is completely different from my last. It's the difference between driving a chevette and driving a Corvette. I know others have said their dogs are pets and they don't work them but I do, and frankly I have to. She has a lot of drive and requires a job, she tracks, does scent detection, obedience, and does this on a daily basis. I spend 1.5 hours in the morning on exercise and working to keep her drive at bay. At 10 months she was launching almost 20 feet off a dock into a lake to get her ball. She is professional with adults but absolutely loves kids. The local Raw store wanted her picture in their new store to promote raw feeding as healthy option, I guess her physique impressed them. I have proof of her bloodlines going back several "generations" for both the mom and dad, with both conformation and IPO titles; unless of course that weakens when the Dollar replaces the Euro.

I suggest you contact Stephanie and if you wish ask her how you can get in touch with me if you would like to see pic/vids of her in action, conformation, etc. I would love to chat one Dobie lover to another. I know I am rambling but she is the best dog I have ever owned. Feel free to seek me out.

Next theory?
 
#22 ·
Deborah (SieYa),

I'm unsure which bloodlines you are referring to? The breeding I planned for December 2013 which you were interested in and went through my entire application process? The breeding which did not take. I am curious since you were well aware of the pedigree and didn't have an issue with these lines at that time? And the breeders you recommend on this forum have many of the same euro lines introduced into their breeding programs. Nor did you have an issue with the untitled bitch you keep referring to, who has since been retired, healthy, and almost 8 years old. She was being trained in IPO and doing extremely well, however her retirement family (which is a relative of mine) decided they did not want her doing protection work.
The young prospects I have at the moment are both in training to trial for their BH and IPO titles.....the minimum age for dogs to participate in a BH test is 15 months. I was hoping to trial this year, unfortunately due to a personal injury I lost my entire summer unable to work them.
Regarding your statement "known to broker puppies from overseas" this breeder you are referring to is my partner (which is NOT Altobello), we work together very closely. Should you choose to import and/or breed euro lines it is important to trust who you are dealing with overseas, and my partner is one of the few. I believe I have already explained this to you in a private message after a previous accusation you made.
I am a member of the DPCC and I'm very aware of their code of ethics, in which I abide by.

The purpose of the original post was someone looking to find a good breeder. IMO regardless what bloodlines or type you prefer health and temperament should come first. All prospective buyers should ask for references, proof of health testing, a detailed pedigree with longevity and CODs, etc.
 
#23 ·
So I have been doing some more research and it appears most Dobes nowadays die between 8-10 years. I wish to be able to find a breeder who breed their dogs a bit older and hopefully their lines are longer living too. So many health problems with this breed ... but not do I love them.
 
#25 ·
Oh dear--I won't touch the "Euro" breeding topic with a 10 foot pole--there isn't any way to be reasonable about it.(and as far as Euro breeders go--I think of them generally as breeders in Europe, whose kennels are in Europe and when they are in Canada or the USA they sort of become Canadian or North American breeders to me--even though they may have European dogs behind their dogs).

But Doberca$h, I don't know where you have been doing your research but it isn't just Dobes "nowadays" who die between 8-10 years--that's been true since the 1930's. Actually the average life span of Dobermans when I got my first (1959) was around 9.5 for males and just less than 10 for bitches. Today the average life span if just under 10 years for males and a little over 10 years for bitches. But remember that these are averages and it means there are dogs who die very young and those who reach advanced ages--12, 13.

If what you found is the misinformation that has been floating around for many years--it claims that Dobes used to be a particularly long lived breed--average age was 15 years and some as long as 20. This is believed to be a mistranslation from a German source and I first saw it in 1964--it wasn't true then and it isn't true now.

I guess I've been really lucky--my dogs have pretty much all come from NA show line breeders and all but one of them lived to between 9 years and 10 years or more. The one exception was a dog I euthanized because of a kidney infection we could not cure nor control--I let him go at 7.5 years. My old dog at present is over 11 and will be 12 in November. Two of his litter mates lived to not quite 11 and 11.5 and his parents both lived to over 10 years.

There are long lived dogs around and there are breeders who do breed older dogs. I think I'd probably start with the longevity list (available on DPCA.org) and work backward from that to the breeders of dogs who regularly live long and healthy lives.

Good luck in your search.
 
#24 ·
Even with "reputable" breeders, I find that some continue to breed lines that die young, with cancer and heart problems. I'm so discouraged. I live in Ontario but i think I will have to import. I know Dobes in general have a lot of health problems but if m dogs in a line keep dying of cancer and die at a young age etc then it might be a good idea to stop breeding that line.
 
#27 ·
Sounds like you need to visit us here is Florida!!!! Sunshine is plentiful ......
Charismatic Dobermans is where I obtained my Hoss.....Real nice folks located in northern Florida.
I still stay in contact with them....yet purchased almost 2 years ago from them....check out their website as it will provide more details if you are interested.
 
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