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Old 05-27-2009, 05:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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What do you think?

I am inquiring on a litter of pups and got this info...
"The dam is OFA hips excellent, normal elbows, normal cardiac, vwd affected.

The sire is vwd carrier. The don't do OFA testing is Australia. He lived to 10 years and died of bloat/torsion. His pedigree has longevity and some great dogs, eventually goes to american lines."

And they attached pedigree. DOes it look like a good litter? Breeder is Velo Dobermans in FL.
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think it would be a very nice litter. I like a lot of the Aussie DObes and seems like Velo has some nice DObes too!!! Should be a decent mating. Though some may not like the fact that a Vwd affected bitch was bred to a carrier and not a clear dog.
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trav View Post
I am inquiring on a litter of pups and got this info...
"The dam is OFA hips excellent, normal elbows, normal cardiac, vwd affected.

The sire is vwd carrier. The don't do OFA testing is Australia. He lived to 10 years and died of bloat/torsion. His pedigree has longevity and some great dogs, eventually goes to american lines."

And they attached pedigree. DOes it look like a good litter? Breeder is Velo Dobermans in FL.
Well...I'd definitely make sure the puppies were going to be vWD tested prior to purchase, since only carrier or affected puppies will result. People should be able to make an informed choice about whether they want to buy an affected puppy or not (I wouldn't).
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I have meet Allison once and spoken to her a couple of times and found her to be very professional and passionate about her breedings and exhibiting her dogs. The dam side of the sire is very interesting, it goes back to Browns B Brian in less than 7 generations, most of Brians appearances would be 10 to 12 gens. back. I like both dogs, my only reservation is breeding a carrier to an affected dog. Many breeders aren't concerned about this combination but I always think there are other options avalible. You will get a breeder that will be very helpful and who works for an accomplished Vet. in Brocksville Fl. Von.
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for all replies folks. They vWD is what I was wondering how people felt about. Thanks for the replies. I have a couple of choices of breeders here in central florida that i have seen good things about on this forum.
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I would ask Allison if she plans swabing the pups and getting results, if so that would clarify their standings. It's a very interesting pedigree, and as said Allison is reliable, and can offer great support to an owner. Von.
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I would ask Allison if she plans swabing the pups and getting results, if so that would clarify their standings. It's a very interesting pedigree, and as said Allison is reliable, and can offer great support to an owner. Von.


Yeah i just emailed her that question lol. I will let everyone know what shes says.
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Old 05-27-2009, 07:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
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They vWD is what I was wondering how people felt about. .
I wouldn't do a carrier x affected breeding, but if the other health testing is done, and all the other bases covered, then I'm not going to do any finger pointing about it. It's far from the worst thing a breeder could do.

Alison has produced some nice dogs, and is very committed. She's also a very nice person.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I personally would not breed a carrier to an affected dog but otherwise.... The breed has other problems. Cardio is much more important for me.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Gorgeous dogs. I personally would not have one because of the choice to mate a vWD affected with a vWD carrier - don't think it is fair to the pups, or to the breed, nor is it necessary to do this. I don't believe affected dogs should be bred, and carriers should be bred to clears, so the gene is worked OUT of the breed. I realize this is a strong opinion, and many disagree with me, but I feel strongly about it, and just wrote the same on another thread in this section. Even drop-dead gorgeous and stylin' in my book is not a good reason to perpetuate a disease which could so easily be minimized. (Also, I don't think it's medically correct or practically empathetic to diminish the effects of bleeding disorders on an animal, canine, human or otherwise. Just because there's no hemorrhaging does not mean there are no clinical effects. Sorry... imho, and aware that it makes me evil - lois
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:33 AM   #11 (permalink)
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this is a sensitive issue.... but let's not forget that there are several coagulation disorders that anyone can suffer from (without me knowing them all honestly, but I know they're there). It may just be easy to diagnose vWD when thing happen because people don't want to test further etc. -- ?

For me vWD is very important, but NOT as important as heart issues. I would never (knowingly) breed in favor of vWD over KNOWN heart issues.....

Thing is guys, there is NO perfect pedigree... no pedigree is totally free of cardio, and as far as I know, way more dogs die from Cardio than from being clinically affected by vWD... so if push comes to shove, vWD takes second priority... imo.

I know several breeders who have never had a dog die from a bleeding disorder in over 20 + years, but they've had dogs die from cardio issues.... soooo....
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Old 05-28-2009, 02:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
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this is a sensitive issue.... but let's not forget that there are several coagulation disorders that anyone can suffer from (without me knowing them all honestly, but I know they're there). It may just be easy to diagnose vWD when thing happen because people don't want to test further etc. -- ?

For me vWD is very important, but NOT as important as heart issues. I would never (knowingly) breed in favor of vWD over KNOWN heart issues.....

Thing is guys, there is NO perfect pedigree... no pedigree is totally free of cardio, and as far as I know, way more dogs die from Cardio than from being clinically affected by vWD... so if push comes to shove, vWD takes second priority... imo.

I know several breeders who have never had a dog die from a bleeding disorder in over 20 + years, but they've had dogs die from cardio issues.... soooo....
vWD is a genetically inherited disease which is testable and predictably inherited. At the current time, testing for cardiac issues is very imperfect and unclear. It's comparing apples and Volkswagens. It is straightforward to deal with the vWD - and an added benefit is that by eradicating vWD, you also diminish certain types of cardiac, liver and orthopedic issues. It's win-win, and no-one is asking for the research and evaluation of cardiac problems to stop for one second. Kind of like getting rid of head lice while you also try to fight child abuse. They are not mutually exclusive.
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:16 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Wow a lot more debatable than I thought lol. Thanks for all the continue great answers. The breeder told me that they do test the pups for vWD so I would know if the pup was a carrier or affected.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:29 AM   #14 (permalink)
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vWD is a genetically inherited disease which is testable and predictably inherited. At the current time, testing for cardiac issues is very imperfect and unclear. It's comparing apples and Volkswagens. It is straightforward to deal with the vWD - and an added benefit is that by eradicating vWD, you also diminish certain types of cardiac, liver and orthopedic issues. It's win-win, and no-one is asking for the research and evaluation of cardiac problems to stop for one second. Kind of like getting rid of head lice while you also try to fight child abuse. They are not mutually exclusive.
Yes, agreed, the disease should be eradicated, but the way you want to go about it is totally unrealistic. Eliminating all affecteds and rarely using the carriers would decrease the gene pool to a point where we wouldn't have anywhere to go in many breeding programs. What is wrong with breeding a genetically affected dog to a clear? You get carriers, then you could breed carrier to clear, which over the years would leave you with only clears, it just takes a bit longer, but the entire gene pool is available without producing more affecteds. One disease down and it's really not even a killer of our breed. We need to go after cardio and cancer, shoot, clears can bleed out too, did you know that? VWD is one of many clotting factors in the doberman.
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