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Old 01-12-2009, 09:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Questionable 'breeders'

I interpret a breeder to be someone VERY knowledgeable about the Breed and dedicated to improving and preserving the Breed as the Standard of Perfection describes it. The LOVE of the Breed being formost.


Others are doing it for the money.

The bottom line of commercial kennels is...........monies made for the year.

Kennels that are run as a business are:

Kimbertal
Hoytt


anybody know of others?


ps Not to say I agree with all that is said here, but...........
Doberman Pinscher Puppy Breeders to Avoid
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Britton Farms, Altobello (personally like Alto but theres no denying they are commercial)

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Old 01-12-2009, 11:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Wow, I checked out the sight. For all of those articles, they still have a puppies available area and I found this from a guy talking about his upcoming litter....

Quote:
Yes Horse, Gunnar is just a young buck 14 months old, he is already 87 pounds and will fill out more.
actually his lineage is of the Altobello line his grand father was Dankan dax Altobello who has several european CH titles. This is Raisa's first litter she is 2 years old, I do not believe in breeding them early.
I think I'm going to go puke my dinner! What's the point of educating and then turning around and doing this?
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Old 01-12-2009, 11:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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OMG! Check out their forum - this from the "alpha" moderator....

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Schutzhund is not nearly as popular in the US. Much of this comes from the social attitude toward dogs and the litigious nature of many US people. The consensus seems to be that only mean dogs bite.

AKC banned its members for holding any event involving bite work. This causes the Doberman community to have a split creating the United Doberman Club of America who now holds Schutzhund trials including bite work.

This type of training, despite its intense nature, does not result in vicious dogs. It teaches a dog to stay under command in high pressure situations, when and when not to bite, and to have the confidence to go all out when the time comes that his owner needs protection.

A well trained protection dog will sit calmly among a crowd of loud strangers day after day, and in a instant – when commanded to or in reaction to blatant aggression – become a flying wall of muscle and teeth who will protect his handler despite injury to himself. This protection can include holding his ground with loud barks or leaping on a moving car to pull a 200 pound armed driver out the window.
What!?! How many sport dogs do you know who will pull an armed, 200 lb. man out of a car?

Sorry - I'm hijacking aren't I? I'm just blown away by some of the stuff on this site. Sorry.....
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Old 01-12-2009, 11:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
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OMG! Check out their forum - this from the "alpha" moderator....



What!?! How many sport dogs do you know who will pull an armed, 200 lb. man out of a car?

Sorry - I'm hijacking aren't I? I'm just blown away by some of the stuff on this site. Sorry.....
You know i was thinking alot of the same when i found that forum last week. i even commented on it but they seem hell bent on peddling puppies over there. but hey they have a "system" in place to prevent anybody from purchising a puppy from a less then reputable breeder. Gimme a break that site has more adds then the chicago phone book.


Quote:
AlphaAdmin
Administrator
Good ideas MigMomma. My thought is to have a breeder index, and indexes for trainers, vets, dogs-sitters, etc. And in addition to that an ad system that would allow breeders to post individual puppies or dogs as well as people looking for them.

The bump idea is one I've also be thinking about. That might be a good way to get started. Good thinking. We could allow breeders an such to post their profile in the index for free, have so many adds per month for free - but with a donation get more ads and be able to bump them - or something like that.

Regardless, we could then us the donations to buy ad elsewhere online and get more people seen the ads and profiles here.
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Old 01-13-2009, 01:00 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Amaris Dobermans, now known on the web as Amaris Midwest.
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Here are a few questionable Doberman breeding kennels that have been discussed here on DT before:
JKK's, Garrett, Reining, Whited K9, Hundmeister, WIlson's, King DOberman, HeathershouseofDObes, von Ryan's Luxus
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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O.K. I will add Jasmine's breeder to this list BUT I will add the following:
She show's her dogs,
She health tests and holters her dogs,
She is very knowledgeable about the lines she is using
BUT IMO just has to many litters a year. So I don't know what heading she would fall under.
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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O.K. I will add Jasmine's breeder to this list BUT I will add the following:
She show's her dogs,
She health tests and holters her dogs,
She is very knowledgeable about the lines she is using
BUT IMO just has to many litters a year. So I don't know what heading she would fall under.


Since I cannot edit my post and I just re-read the question I will add this. I don't think she is breeding solely for profit. I do think she really cares for her dog's and what happens to the breed. I just think she does not need to pump out that many puppies a year. Am I making any sense???
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I would like to officially add every breeder in our local newspaper, 365 days out of the year. Every single one is a glorified backyard breeder.

ajcclassifieds.com


Anyway, there was one breeder on there that sparked my interest. Everyone take a look at this site. Is this a backyard breeder?

Welcome

They say specifically "I do not own a show dog"

I have to point out these dogs are $1600.............. But maybe I am misjudging a great breeder?? If they are good breeders, I can officially say that is the FIRST reputable breeder I have actually noticed in our newspaper, so I hope they are!!

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Old 01-13-2009, 05:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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oh, missed Stray's in Ontario, want to see a horrific site? they post pictures of litters with 5 "colours", claim to home raise pups, not sure what they mean b/c I don't have pups in the house on straw.
Shulenhouse in Ontario is another putting out Z factored dobes.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okie-dobie View Post
Since I cannot edit my post and I just re-read the question I will add this. I don't think she is breeding solely for profit. I do think she really cares for her dog's and what happens to the breed. I just think she does not need to pump out that many puppies a year. Am I making any sense???
How many litters is she breeding? Cause it sounds like she's doing everything else right.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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about the thread title "Questionable 'breeders' " , what about questionable 'good' breeders?

I interpret a breeder to be someone VERY knowledgeable about the Breed and dedicated to improving and preserving the Breed as the Standard of Perfection describes it. The LOVE of the Breed being formost.


Others are doing it for the money.


Using bell-curve logic, there should be a very small number of very good dedicated breeders on the far right tail of the bell curve and the very bad 'greeders' on the other end of the curve, then, that leaves the statistical majority of breeders somewhere in between. Maybe in reality, doberman breeding is not a bell-shaped distribution; maybe its a skewed distribution with ideally most of the breeders in the good/dedicated category and few in the commercial/greeder category..

either way, even among the good dedicated breeders, there is some gray area about their interpretation of the doberman pinscher standard and how they choose to 'improve' on it through their breeding practices. Without doing a literature study and pulling citations from DT posts, I know in some of the other breeder threads, it is often frowned upon when a 'breeder' is selling pups from non-titled parents for the going price for pups from titled parents. So somewhere in there is a perceived criteria that truly good dedicated breeder only breeds titled/proven parents. I know for a fact that is not true. My dog's pedigree for example. He came from a DPCA listed supposedly good dedicated breeder, though untitled parents (and a young dog father without all the health testing). Some newbies are on here openly admitting to having bought their beloved dobe from a BYB... I guess I kindof think I did too based on some of criteria I have since learned about while on DT. I mean it is what it is.
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Lexx's breeder...

Precious Jewl in Barrie Ontario.

Honestly.. if i ever get the JOY of seeing her in person at a show... well lets just say everyone on here will probably get a great story to read about
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:06 PM   #15 (permalink)
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This thread is only meant to put red flags on a few breeders. Whether researching a breeder from the recommended breeders thread or the Questionable breeders thread, read what others have said, then check them all out for yourselves, make up your own minds.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Exclamation Another Breeder In It For The Money.

Hello All, I just wanted to add to the list aruff dobermans. She had 9 litters of just dobermans this last year & she also breeds Shiba Inus, Mini Dachshunds & Huskies. Not to mention her ear cropping in my opinion looks horrific!!! Anyway just wanted to add my two cents worth.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:13 PM   #17 (permalink)
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How many litters is she breeding? Cause it sounds like she's doing everything else right.
Yes that's exactly what I said, she does do everything else pretty much right.

I will only say more than 2 and less than 10. Because to be completely honest it is what I have heard. Yes I know of 3 breeding FOR SURE in 2006...maybe there were more. She does breed every year. I'm sure someone can check if they really wanted to know just how many.

And this is my dilemma, good breeder?? yes or no?? If this is the only thing I can say that puts her in that catagory...I don't know.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yes that's exactly what I said, she does do everything else pretty much right.

I will only say more than 2 and less than 10. Because to be completely honest it is what I have heard. Yes I know of 3 breeding FOR SURE in 2006...maybe there were more. She does breed every year. I'm sure someone can check if they really wanted to know just how many.

And this is my dilemma, good breeder?? yes or no?? If this is the only thing I can say that puts her in that catagory...I don't know.
The last time I talked to her she said she breeds 4-5 litters a year, but she does have her reasons for it, and I do think it is a legitimate reason. I personally think that is a lot of litters to have, but at the same time, I don't think she should be put up there with the likes of Kimbertal, Hoytt, Apollo etc...
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:06 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Who is the breeder?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Okie-dobie View Post
Yes that's exactly what I said, she does do everything else pretty much right.

I will only say more than 2 and less than 10. Because to be completely honest it is what I have heard. Yes I know of 3 breeding FOR SURE in 2006...maybe there were more. She does breed every year. I'm sure someone can check if they really wanted to know just how many.

And this is my dilemma, good breeder?? yes or no?? If this is the only thing I can say that puts her in that catagory...I don't know.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:10 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The last time I talked to her she said she breeds 4-5 litters a year, but she does have her reasons for it, and I do think it is a legitimate reason. I personally think that is a lot of litters to have, but at the same time, I don't think she should be put up there with the likes of Kimbertal, Hoytt, Apollo etc...

Yes you may be right dobeguy, that's why I said what I did on my second post. As per DLS post, this thread is only to "red flag" certain breeders. I am not putting her up there with the Hoytts etc, etc. I just think people should look good and hard...that's just my learning experience anyways. Maybe I should have started my own thread and not posted it here, because to be honest I have been wondering about this for a long time.

4-5 litters every year is alot. And yes she has some reasons for doing what she does. But there are breeders who breed euro dog's and only breed once or twice a year.
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Last edited by Okie-dobie; 01-13-2009 at 08:14 PM..
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:19 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeguy View Post
The last time I talked to her she said she breeds 4-5 litters a year, but she does have her reasons for it, and I do think it is a legitimate reason. I personally think that is a lot of litters to have, but at the same time, I don't think she should be put up there with the likes of Kimbertal, Hoytt, Apollo etc...
I would love to hear a legitimate reason for breeding 4 to 5 litters per year, that is ALOT of puppies. Even if she said she was working on keeping her line going and producing puppies to better the breed it takes far less than 4-5 litters a year to do that. I can't even imagine what a good reason would be.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeguy View Post
The last time I talked to her she said she breeds 4-5 litters a year, but she does have her reasons for it, and I do think it is a legitimate reason. I personally think that is a lot of litters to have, but at the same time, I don't think she should be put up there with the likes of Kimbertal, Hoytt, Apollo etc...
And what would be the reason for that many litters anyway? And "because I need to maintain 'my' lines" doesn't cut it. If you need to breed 5 litters to pick your next future prospect down the road, then you need to re-evaluate what you are doing.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
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considering the dpcc code of ethics says no more than 4 litters, 4-5 every year is too many, IMO
gee, I need rest time after a litter! but then I go out to work.
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Old 01-13-2009, 09:03 PM   #24 (permalink)
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considering the dpcc code of ethics says no more than 4 litters, 4-5 every year is too many, IMO
gee, I need rest time after a litter! but then I go out to work.
I did not know it was 4 litters, interesting.
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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