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Old 01-10-2009, 10:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Garretts Dobermans is at it again

She sold littermates to one family, male/female. And yet again she has sold 2 brothers to a "family". She has had this explained "why its not a good idea" and just doesn't get it. Says that our dogs must not have great temperaments like their dogs cause they will get along fine. She has never even OWNED a male!!!!!
Just urks me to no end.
She is the one who sold the two males 6 months or so ago to the guy in New York we all tried to warn. She also sold 2 males a while back to a family with two young kids, One for each kid.
She is also the one that charges ALOT extra for dilutes.
No health testing what so ever on any of her dogs. NONE! She brokers for other back yard breeders.
UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Well, at least this time it was male/female. A small bright spot.
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Well, at least this time it was male/female. A small bright spot.
Nope, read it again. The first set of littermates she sold from this litter was male female, the second set from the same litter was male/male, to a family with kids I'm sure.
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Oh yeah, I know about them. My husband & I ran into a guy in Petsmart a couple of months ago with a blue male puppy. So naturally, we HAD to talk to him because we were waiting for a doberman puppy. (NOT from them though)
The guy tells us that he HAD been on a waiting list of a very reputable breeder here on LI but just got tired of waiting, so he had his puppy shipped from Garrett. I just said "Oh". When I asked how much he paid he told me $2300. For a blue! AND from them! I nearly fell over from shock! AND, the ears didn't look good at all.

We just couldn't believe that he gave up getting a nice puppy from a good breeder who is local!
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:49 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Oh yeah, I know about them. My husband & I ran into a guy in Petsmart a couple of months ago with a blue male puppy. So naturally, we HAD to talk to him because we were waiting for a doberman puppy. (NOT from them though)
The guy tells us that he HAD been on a waiting list of a very reputable breeder here on LI but just got tired of waiting, so he had his puppy shipped from Garrett. I just said "Oh". When I asked how much he paid he told me $2300. For a blue! AND from them! I nearly fell over from shock! AND, the ears didn't look good at all.

We just couldn't believe that he gave up getting a nice puppy from a good breeder who is local!

Well they don't normally charge THAT much for their puppies. Maybe that was for TWO puppies cause that is probably the guy who bought the blue male and the black male. Their blues are usually around $1600 or $1800, I forget which. Right now they are having a "sale" and they have color for only $1300. These are from the accidental breeding from the same two that had the puppies the guy you saw bought one from. They just went up on their blacks and reds. I think they are up to $1000 now, with no health testing.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
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This just makes me so angry... Why are their so many stupid people in this world???????The two male littermates with children really worries me.
I can just see the brothers going at it and a child gets injured.
And than who will make the headlines, the breeder - the owner - no the Doberman....
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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And than who will make the headlines, the breeder - the owner - no the Doberman....
This, outside of the breeders blatant stupidity, is THE most aggravating of all!

I know its hardly worth asking as I know the answer deep down - but dont fools like Garretts understand, or remotely comprehend, that for every situation like she just "helped" some poor {obviously breed uneducated} soul get into with 2 male pups .. that an attack of children or something of that nature ESCALATES the nuts who would all love to see every breed they could name banned from existence! And that includes THEM?!?
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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But according to Laura Garrett it will never happen because their dogs are wonderful with children and have wonderful tempermanets and would never do anything like that!!

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This, outside of the breeders blatant stupidity, is THE most aggravating of all!

I know its hardly worth asking as I know the answer deep down - but dont fools like Garretts understand, or remotely comprehend, that for every situation like she just "helped" some poor {obviously breed uneducated} soul get into with 2 male pups .. that an attack of children or something of that nature ESCALATES the nuts who would all love to see every breed they could name banned from existence! And that includes THEM?!?
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Well they don't normally charge THAT much for their puppies. Maybe that was for TWO puppies cause that is probably the guy who bought the blue male and the black male. Their blues are usually around $1600 or $1800, I forget which. Right now they are having a "sale" and they have color for only $1300. These are from the accidental breeding from the same two that had the puppies the guy you saw bought one from. They just went up on their blacks and reds. I think they are up to $1000 now, with no health testing.
He did pay 1600. for his blue boy, but the ear cropping, according to their website, was 450. & shipping was 390. for a total of $2440. which is in line with the price he said he paid. He did say it was his ONLY dog though. This would have been around Thanksgiving when we met him. So, the price he paid was for just one dog.
I just couldn't believe that he shelled out that kind of money for a dog that comes from bloodlines that aren't titled or health tested. He had been on a waiting list of a LOCAL reputable breeder who does title her dogs & health tests & he would have gotten a much better dog, (with a nice crop) for less money in the long run, IMO.

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Old 01-10-2009, 01:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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He did pay 1600. for his blue boy, but the ear cropping, according to their website, was 450. & shipping was 390. for a total of $2440. which is in line with the price he said he paid. He did say it was his ONLY dog though. This would have been around Thanksgiving when we met him. So, the price he paid was for just one dog.
I just couldn't believe that he shelled out that kind of money for a dog that comes from bloodlines that aren't titled or health tested. He had been on a waiting list of a LOCAL reputable breeder who does title her dogs & health tests & he would have gotten a much better dog, (with a nice crop) for less money in the long run, IMO.
Ah! that makes sense. Gee, when you get a puppy from a reputable breeder, you pay around the same price he paid EXCEPT the ears are already cropped for that price! Wow!! And their pedigree's are really pet. I wonder if he is the same guy and got rid of one? Did he say his or the puppies name?
Well, you can see if it was him cause the guy who has the two males just posted on the puppy corner "my puppies are getting big" his name is John. Says he's from the Bronx
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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But according to Laura Garrett it will never happen because their dogs are wonderful with children and have wonderful tempermanets and would never do anything like that!!
I had to email them because thats just beyond stupid!

From: Kellie Roberts <vettedreams1@yahoo.com>
To: garrett@nutractive.com
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:55:05 PM
Subject: Duke & King -- Blue/rust Black/rust males -- Robyn & family from TX

What a disappointment to see that you would allow an obviously new & uneducated Doberman owner to acquire 2 MALE pups. And litter mates at that!! Did your love for money override your apparent limited understanding of this breed and basic male dog behavior or what?

I hope the purchaser of the two male pups considers rehoming one of them ASAP before something bad happens - to them or one of those dogs. Are you going to take one back & refund their money when the problems DO arise? If I can track them down on the internet by a stroke of luck -- I will be telling them myself. God forbid that person has children & you just set them all up for imminent danger when those male pups come of age. Does it not concern you in the least that one or both of those pups are headed to Craigslist or worse, the pound when the problems arise? Does it not concern you that you just handed a "family" another potential black mark against this magnificent breed due to your ignorance & greed?

Stupidity of this level is almost unfathomable to me. And yes, there will always be people like myself, who seek to purchase puppies from heath tested, conformationally correct Doberman parents who's lineage deserves to be bred, keeping an eye on puppy mills like yours.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in your parental specimens that should continue being bred & sold to an unsuspecting public!
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I just find it hard not to get angry at the people that buy too, for being so stupid. With as much information as there is out there today, how can they not know. But then we see it here every other day and by some intelligent people. I guess it helps if you have been around dogs all your life. It is mainly the newbies to the dog world I guess. I just really hate to see it happen. What gets me are these newbies with children, if any of them get bit that could ruin adults and children, but mainly the children, for life as far as loving dogs goes.
I would say something but I think it might be a terroristic threat.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Woa!! texasred is a mad dobermamma!!
Trust me, she won't listen, she honestly thinks her dogs temperaments are very unusual and just perfect. Again, she has never owned a male much less 2 males. one day they will be in the news.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Woa!! texasred is a mad dobermamma!!
Trust me, she won't listen, she honestly thinks her dogs temperaments are very unusual and just perfect. Again, she has never owned a male much less 2 males. one day they will be in the news.
LOL. Well bless that morons heart .. they were "given" away not sold. *GRRRR*

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From: "garrett.rd@gmail.com" <garrett.rd@gmail.com>
To: Kellie Roberts <vettedreams1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:03:25 PM
Subject: RE: Duke & King -- Blue/rust Black/rust males -- Robyn & family from TX

They are friends of this particular breeder and they were GIVEN to them. Why don't you stay off the site and mind your own business!
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:20 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TexasRed View Post
LOL. Well bless that morons heart .. they were "given" away not sold. *GRRRR*


So what does being given away have to do with 2 male dobermans living together? Oh, cause you said she was more interested in the money, now I remember. Its still 2 male dobermans living together. clueless.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Linda H View Post
I just find it hard not to get angry at the people that buy too, for being so stupid. With as much information as there is out there today, how can they not know. But then we see it here every other day and by some intelligent people. I guess it helps if you have been around dogs all your life. It is mainly the newbies to the dog world I guess. I just really hate to see it happen. What gets me are these newbies with children, if any of them get bit that could ruin adults and children, but mainly the children, for life as far as loving dogs goes.
I would say something but I think it might be a terroristic threat.
Cant disagree at all Linda .. My hubby kept telling me "ooh look, here's one for $500" "here's another for $450" on the internet. He finally asked me why wasnt I even listening or acknowledging what he was saying. WHY in Gods name are you saying we will likely spend upwards of $1200+ on a DOG?!? LOL! When I finally said "we should stop looking for Dobes if I cant communicate why we need what I'm asking for" -- the light came on and the why's were allowed to be absorbed & understood. :biggrin55: And it was solely his inexperience with dogs as a whole. Now he cant wait to brag on our puppy with his newly gained {and continuing} knowledge

There are just tons of folks who fall in love with little puppy faces of any breed that are sooo not even close to breed standard, health-testing be damned & are clueless to what the traits of the breed are/should be. Like I told the hubby -- if you really dont care about any of that, we'll just go to the pound & get a couple of cheap, cool rescue dogs that deserve good homes. If we're going to get a Doberman - not to mention the requirements of a working breed itself - we absolutely owe it to ourselves AND the puppy to find the right breeder for our needs.

My biggest concern with someone like that Garrett group is just what I stated in my email .. if those people have children they could really have a world of hurt coming their way. Either trying to break up a dog fight or worse - the kids whooping & hollering in play could get one or both stirred up to the point of biting. Badly. Its not worth the risk IMHO. And its extremely crazy to put that burden on an unsuspecting family.
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Linda H View Post
I just find it hard not to get angry at the people that buy too, for being so stupid. With as much information as there is out there today, how can they not know. But then we see it here every other day and by some intelligent people. I guess it helps if you have been around dogs all your life. It is mainly the newbies to the dog world I guess. I just really hate to see it happen. What gets me are these newbies with children, if any of them get bit that could ruin adults and children, but mainly the children, for life as far as loving dogs goes.
I would say something but I think it might be a terroristic threat.
One thing that comes to mind is that it really does take a lot of research to understand the importance of the things we take for granted, such as health, conformation and temperament. When you think about it, it really takes YEARS to understand things like temperament and various nuances that makes up conformation to the breed standard. Even then there is disagreement, especially in terms of what good temperament consists of. For example as a Schutzhund enthusiast I would have a very different opinion of that means than others might. I would want a dog that has the inherent traits that the breed was originally intended for, such as strong courage, high drive in prey, and defense while another person would think that good temperament would mean the dog is a Golden Retriever in a Doberman suit.

Even the basic information about what health testing is, why it is important and what the real ramifications of health problems are, is information that you have to come across more than once to absorb. You may even have to experience it first hand to grasp it. We kind of take it for granted.

In addition, as a society we have become a throw away society, with a strong obsession with instant gratification. So to be put on a waiting list goes against the grain and has become an almost addictive trait that we have become accustomed to. For most people especially those that are not research oriented, emotion will always override objective reasoning. In fact, in one of my former jobs I use to do personality trait analysis with groups of people. One of the personality types was given the color code of green, representing a person who is inquisitive, and research minded. It was by far the most rare of traits in people.

The seemingly stringent requirements that reputable breeders may have for puppy buyers, can feel intrusive. Perhaps in the case of some breeders a snobbish approach can turn off prospective puppy buyers, and perhaps even intimidate them in their future quest. During my search for a stud male I encountered a couple of such people. Following that experience I would not have dealt with them even if their dog was all that, which they weren't anyway. So along comes someone that has a puppy available, comes across as friendly, the prospective puppy buyer, if they even have done their research and know better (unlikely), jumps at the chance to fulfill their emotional need, their denial kicks in (you see it all the time on here when hordes of Lil pups come on here to defend the honor of their "breeder" who has produced the little being that is the focus of their love) and they overlook the red flags that would send experienced Doberman people running in the other direction.

Another factor is the websites the BYB'ers or commercial breeders put out there seems to satisfy the buyer and overcome their defenses. If the breeder offers a health guarantee (even though when you read the fine print you may see that it is worthless), makes great claims about temperament, fills their website with BS, adds pages upon pages of breed history (written by someone else), then things that are important such as conformation and performance titles, health testing, which are missing from the site (or in many cases is even downplayed or pooh-poohed by the author of the website), are overlooked. Throw on top of that pictures of puppies with children, gushing referrals from new (and ignorant) owners, then it is no wonder that so many people are led to support these people. To me it is a clear case of smoke and mirrors, but to an uneducated prospective Doberman buyer it does the trick.

In my current business (Martial Arts) often the first question people ask is "how much are classes". Many people look at prices of what a reputable breeder must charge and they are turned off. Of course there are some bad breeders that also charge the same prices but that is another issue, many charge a lot less.

I even see it at times with people that have a good reputation (deserved or otherwise). They justify decisions they make both as breeders and buyers that go against what they claim is important. I even understand the temptation to do so. For example, when looking for a stud dog, which I researched for over 3 years, I knew a dog that due to extraordinary circumstances was not yet titled. I knew for a fact he was exactly what I was looking for, IMO is the strongest dog in the country (at least as far as the Dobes I have seen) and as good or better than the best working dogs I saw in Europe in terms of drive and raw potential. On top of that I have a close relationship with the owner and there would have been no stud fee (because of some other circumstances ). My Sch club scheduled a meeting with the executive board to see if they could make an exception to the club policy and allow me to breed to an untitled dog (the TD and the other executive members have seen the dog work). Instead I decided to go with a dog that was titled even though the terms were not nearly as good. I called the TD and told him to cancel the meeting. The point is that is how close I was to going against what I believe in as an important criteria. The point of all that is I think we need to set an example. If we go against what we really believe to be right then how can we expect others to not do the same.

I see other comments on here that kind of piss me off sometimes. Sometimes the double standards irk me. With the insight I have gained and the inside information I have on many dogs (usually from helpers who have actually worked the dogs discussed) I see people make decisions and recommendations on "working dogs" and "working breeders" that leave me absolutely perplexed. You take someone that is new to the breed and MAYBE doing some research, then it is no wonder they would be beyond perplexed at the loads of information (sometimes conflicting) they are receiving.

Sorry for the book I just wrote, but I think these are some important points, and I think trying to understand why people make decisions may make it easier to accept them and not be too harsh with them.

Last edited by Rosamburg; 01-10-2009 at 03:28 PM..
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Old 01-10-2009, 06:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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She sold littermates to one family, male/female. And yet again she has sold 2 brothers to a "family". She has had this explained "why its not a good idea" and just doesn't get it. Says that our dogs must not have great temperaments like their dogs cause they will get along fine. She has never even OWNED a male!!!!!
Just urks me to no end.
She is the one who sold the two males 6 months or so ago to the guy in New York we all tried to warn. She also sold 2 males a while back to a family with two young kids, One for each kid.
She is also the one that charges ALOT extra for dilutes.
No health testing what so ever on any of her dogs. NONE! She brokers for other back yard breeders.
UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the info, I was originally considering a pup from there. Not anymore...
Royce
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Old 01-10-2009, 06:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info, I was originally considering a pup from there. Not anymore...
Royce
Wow, glad you found this, glad I decided to gripe again!
I know of puppies if you are really looking.
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:15 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Well they don't normally charge THAT much for their puppies. Maybe that was for TWO puppies cause that is probably the guy who bought the blue male and the black male. Their blues are usually around $1600 or $1800, I forget which. Right now they are having a "sale" and they have color for only $1300. These are from the accidental breeding from the same two that had the puppies the guy you saw bought one from. They just went up on their blacks and reds. I think they are up to $1000 now, with no health testing.
I'll bet the $2300 included the shipping..... that sure has a mark up on it too!
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:18 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Ah! that makes sense. Gee, when you get a puppy from a reputable breeder, you pay around the same price he paid EXCEPT the ears are already cropped for that price! Wow!! And their pedigree's are really pet. I wonder if he is the same guy and got rid of one? Did he say his or the puppies name?
Well, you can see if it was him cause the guy who has the two males just posted on the puppy corner "my puppies are getting big" his name is John. Says he's from the Bronx
I can't say for sure, but I don't think it was him. The guy we met said he lived on Long Island & that this was his only dog. He said he previously had owned a doberman but he died a while back.

Also, about the ears, now I'm no 'expert' by any means, but the advice he was given on posting the ears seemed kind of weird. He said they told him to post for a week, then leave the ears unposted for a week. And like I mentioned, the ears looked pretty bad to me & they were posted! They looked uneven, jagged and weepy. You could see through the tape, I swear it looked like scotch tape or something.
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:52 PM   #23 (permalink)
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But according to Laura Garrett it will never happen because their dogs are wonderful with children and have wonderful tempermanets and would never do anything like that!!

Here's an interesting thought. DOCUMENT your conversation with them explaining the reasons for not placing two male Dobes together in the same household with a non-experienced family looking for pets. Maybe even send an email regarding dog-dog agression in same-household male dobes.

And then wait... When there is an issue, forward the info. to the unsuspecting victims who will then have recourse as they can then PROVE in court that the Garretts had knowledge of the potential problems and reassured them anyway that all would be fine.

Seems like when it comes to court, especially in injury cases, its all about determining who is at fault and at what percent. Most of you know of Emily & Billy's accident. Drunk driver had five times the legal limit of alcohol in his system and definitely was the one mostly at fault. He got 9 years, 4 months in State prison. However, we were able to sue a major car manufacturer as they were "partially" at fault. (This was a product liability suit, the kids were well buckled and in the back seat of the vehicle and still sustained major injuries, including Billy slipping out of his seatbelt due to the extreme force of impact.)

Anyway, when all was said and done, they were only 10% at fault, and yet they settled in the seven figures. Just a thought....

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Old 01-10-2009, 08:40 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Sorry for the book I just wrote, but I think these are some important points, and I think trying to understand why people make decisions may make it easier to accept them and not be too harsh with them.
No, don't apologize for the book, thanks for sharing your thoughts
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:15 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I am also looking for a breeder and was thinking about this one. But, after reading this thread I will be looking else where.
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