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Old 07-09-2012, 01:05 PM   #76 (permalink)
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So let me get this straight. Garrett dobermans was a mother daughter breeder. Mother was killed by her own dog and the daughter has continued breeding after the loss of her mother? Appears the dog had also had some protection training Pet dog attacks, kills older woman | CNHI News Service
No, Garrett Dobermans used the stud services of the dangerous dog.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:07 PM   #77 (permalink)
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No, Garrett Dobermans used the stud services of the dangerous dog.
Okay, got it. Thank you for clarifying this.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:59 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Nutractive...care to elaborate on using the aggressive stud. Did you not know the history or just didn't give a sh!t?
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:12 PM   #79 (permalink)
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It's pretty frightening since they claim to make puppies for families with kids. With temperaments so good that two males can live together. I wish they would at least health test.
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:43 PM   #80 (permalink)
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That's pretty disturbing. I'm still waiting on money back from a BYB I refused to adopt a puppy from once I learned more about them.

I was finally given permission to get a dobe in my house, so I was on cloud nine and too excited to be smart... I zipped online and searched for a puppy that would be available on the date that I wanted for a price that I could afford. Looking back on it, I was ****ing retarded!

Anyway, after the purchase, I had time to deflate and read and study up more on my favorite breed... that's when I learned about BYB and why they were bad and how to identify one. She fit the bill. I was heartbroken, scared, angry, depressed, etc.. I did NOT want any part of THAT! I was lucky enough to get her to agree to give my money back, but I'm still waiting on part of it (had to agree to some conditions).

Before my research, I honestly didn't know the difference between a good and bad breeder. I just thought "bad" meant cruel, and the stuff you saw on Animal Cops or something. Once I was educated about breeding, everything made so much sense and now I truly respect reputable breeders and I'll never make the mistake of buying a "convenient puppy" again.
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:58 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Before my research, I honestly didn't know the difference between a good and bad breeder. I just thought "bad" meant cruel, and the stuff you saw on Animal Cops or something.
This fact always floors me but it makes sense. If you've never really been in the animal world of any type and you're not research oriented, how would you know? Too many people just want to do things the simple and easy way and, sadly, that means going to the paper classifieds and calling up the first ad that you read. Plus, too many people watch TV now and take only what they see there, and nothing else, as fact.
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:18 PM   #82 (permalink)
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That's pretty disturbing. I'm still waiting on money back from a BYB I refused to adopt a puppy from once I learned more about them.
Not to nitpick, but I'm not sure "adopt" is the right word. People do NOT adopt from BYBs. They purchase. Just a pet peeve
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:03 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Not to nitpick, but I'm not sure "adopt" is the right word. People do NOT adopt from BYBs. They purchase. Just a pet peeve
You're right, I just dislike thinking of animals as products, even though I know that's all they are to BYB.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:59 AM   #84 (permalink)
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You're right, I just dislike thinking of animals as products, even though I know that's all they are to BYB.
I don't like it either. Sometimes I think "property" instead of "products" though that doesn't make a huge difference. Still, I got my puppy from a reputable breeder and that was a "purchase," I bought him.
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:07 AM   #85 (permalink)
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So what would be the correct term to use adopt or purchase? I know legally in most states animals are considered property and you own them. So I would assume purchase is the correct term, due to the fact that money has exchanged hands and animals are viewed as property. So would it also be safe to assume that adopting from a shelter would be a purchase as well? When a child is adopted a ton of money usually changes hands. But you don't own the child so I would assume that's adoption? I think it is safe to say that adoption of a animal is a word used to make people feel good about their purchase.
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:13 AM   #86 (permalink)
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So what would be the correct term to use adopt or purchase? I know legally in most states animals are considered property and you own them. So I would assume purchase is the correct term, due to the fact that money has exchanged hands and animals are viewed as property. So would it also be safe to assume that adopting from a shelter would be a purchase as well? When a child is adopted a ton of money usually changes hands. But you don't own the child so I would assume that's adoption? I think it is safe to say that adoption of a animal is a word used to make people feel good about their purchase.
Here is how I view it.
-When you purchase/buy from a breeder your money is going to fund more breeding.
-When you adopt/rescue from a shelter your money is going to help the shelter help more animals in need.



Quote:
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I think it is safe to say that adoption of a animal is a word used to make people feel good about their purchase.
This is exactly true when people buy from a BYB and call it an adoption or rescue. That doesn't mean it's correct :]
Ruffly Speaking: I consider him a rescue.
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:32 AM   #87 (permalink)
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Patchwork thanks for your great insight.
Does it make things any different when people purchase from a reputable breeder versus a byb? I think a good term for a shelter is rescue. Because you are doing just that rescuing a animal in need. At the end of the day I don't think anyone is adopting anything.
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:48 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Patchwork thanks for your great insight.
Does it make things any different when people purchase from a reputable breeder versus a byb? I think a good term for a shelter is rescue. Because you are doing just that rescuing a animal in need. At the end of the day I don't think anyone is adopting anything.
Yes, it makes a difference in who you buy a dog (cat, etc) from.

A reputable breeder will make sure the puppies (kittens, etc.) they produce are as healthy as possible, by testing the breeding stock they use for hereditary problems. By competing with their animals, they test that they conform to breed standards, and can actually function.

A BYB of any species just breeds whatever animals they have on hand, and don't normally do extensive health tests or research on the animals they breed, and frequently (I find), don't even know about the most common problems in their breed.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:23 AM   #89 (permalink)
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(quote)Nutractive...care to elaborate on using the aggressive stud. Did you not know the history or just didn't give a sh!t? (Quote)

First let me say that the dog was put down so that would mean that they bred to him BEFORE the incident. Not trying to justify but it does help if we understand that a dead dog unless there is frozen semen won't be breeding or producing. It is important that facts be correct good bad or indifferent.

Second. Please study the AR agenda and the new language they are trying to make sound so nice and fluffy. - Caregiver, guardian, adopt, etc along with their philosophy to make animals equal to humans. We buy a dog, horse, cat meaning that money exchanged hands so whether BYB, good breeder or pound it is still a purchase and who ever bought is the owner.

As in all things there are good folks who buy and there are good breeders who sell to qualified families - you adopt a child or adopt a dog from a shelter or rescue.
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:06 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Yes, it makes a difference in who you buy a dog (cat, etc) from.

A reputable breeder will make sure the puppies (kittens, etc.) they produce are as healthy as possible, by testing the breeding stock they use for hereditary problems. By competing with their animals, they test that they conform to breed standards, and can actually function.

A BYB of any species just breeds whatever animals they have on hand, and don't normally do extensive health tests or research on the animals they breed, and frequently (I find), don't even know about the most common problems in their breed.
Thanks for your reply, I do understand the difference between reputable and byb. I was more referring to the term adoption, and how it would apply to one versus the other.
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:17 AM   #91 (permalink)
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whatever.

Adopt, don't Shop.

Rescues are the BEST!

and I aint kiddin'

Hugz to All Doberman everywhere!

What a great day on the west coast of BC today! I hope all you Doberman are enjoying your day!
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:20 AM   #92 (permalink)
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Thanks for your reply, I do understand the difference between reputable and byb. I was more referring to the term adoption, and how it would apply to one versus the other.
I pretty much agree with PWR.

If you "adopt" an amimal, you get it from a rescue organization (be it a city pound, humane society, all-breed rescue, or single-breed rescue). You do pay for it, but you are supporting the organization's efforts to save more animals.

If you "buy" an animal, you are supporting a breeding operation. It may be a great breeding operation, producing healthy, well-rounded animals. Or, it may by a poor breeding operation, with no concern about the animals, other than how many offspring they produce.

Another definition of "adopt/rescue" is what I tend to do, which is pick them up off the street (in some cases, literally), take them home, get them vetted (including s/n), and keep them for the rest of their lives.
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:44 AM   #93 (permalink)
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Thanks for your reply, I do understand the difference between reputable and byb. I was more referring to the term adoption, and how it would apply to one versus the other.
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Another definition of "adopt/rescue" is what I tend to do, which is pick them up off the street (in some cases, literally), take them home, get them vetted (including s/n), and keep them for the rest of their lives.
I didn't touch on this issue but to go more in depth from my last post. No, this doesn't have to be the same for everybody but this is how the term works in my head.

Adopt - the dog comes from a rescue/shelter organization. Yes, money is exchanged (so you are technically buying, sure. When you adopt a child you're technically buying them to) but the difference is that the money is going towards helping more animals, not creating more animals.

Rescue - What Rosemary said. Very little (like maybe $25) to no money is exchanged. These are the dogs that you find on the street or you take from a terrible situation (just to clarify, if you're giving money to a breeder you are supporting what they do and you are not rescuing, regardless of the situation, imo), you get the animal vetted and taken care of, and make them healthy again. You can do all this and rescue a dog and then find it a nice home but it's the dog being in a completely homeless and/or horrible situation at first that makes it a rescue.

Buy - Money exchanges hands from you to a breeder/broker/family looking to rehome. Even in that last situation, money is exchanging hands and you are making a purchase. To put it in a non-dog example... I can go to the store a buy a TV for $200 or I can go on craigslist a buy a TV for $50. Either way, I'm still buying a TV.

Dogs are family and I love mine more than I like most people but that doesn't change the fact that, according to law, they are property and that I technically did buy them.
And yet people say that you can't buy happiness
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:22 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NINKOjIN View Post
That's pretty disturbing. I'm still waiting on money back from a BYB I refused to adopt a puppy from once I learned more about them.

I was finally given permission to get a dobe in my house, so I was on cloud nine and too excited to be smart... I zipped online and searched for a puppy that would be available on the date that I wanted for a price that I could afford. Looking back on it, I was ****ing retarded!

Anyway, after the purchase, I had time to deflate and read and study up more on my favorite breed... that's when I learned about BYB and why they were bad and how to identify one. She fit the bill. I was heartbroken, scared, angry, depressed, etc.. I did NOT want any part of THAT! I was lucky enough to get her to agree to give my money back, but I'm still waiting on part of it (had to agree to some conditions).

Before my research, I honestly didn't know the difference between a good and bad breeder. I just thought "bad" meant cruel, and the stuff you saw on Animal Cops or something. Once I was educated about breeding, everything made so much sense and now I truly respect reputable breeders and I'll never make the mistake of buying a "convenient puppy" again.
Mad props to you, for recognizing your mistake, and moving in a better direction.

I wish folks like you could help us figure out how to get the information across to a wider audience.

As bad as the local JoeBlow BYBs are, the ones that really aggravate reputable breeders and rescuers are the slick salespeople who bedazzle folks with their websites, talk a lot of talk, but actually have really crappy breeding programs--like Family Dobes, for one. Britton Farms is another.

That Family Dobes stupid fool, Steve Parsons (who is reportedly a convicted sex offender, btw), has a "service dog" page on his website that hits so many myths and misconceptions--it's a thorn in the side of folks who legitimately know and work service animals.

Plus, the number of pups he pumps out--it's staggering.

Kimbertal is a puppymill, yet folks continue to support them by buying from them--and they farm out more and more bitches, to produce more and more puppies. Yet, they have a "great facility" and people who buy from them are misled to believe they are getting some "great stock."

It's disheartening, trying to combat all the misinformation that gets lobbed at the general buying public.
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:14 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
Mad props to you, for recognizing your mistake, and moving in a better direction.

I wish folks like you could help us figure out how to get the information across to a wider audience.

As bad as the local JoeBlow BYBs are, the ones that really aggravate reputable breeders and rescuers are the slick salespeople who bedazzle folks with their websites, talk a lot of talk, but actually have really crappy breeding programs--like Family Dobes, for one. Britton Farms is another.

That Family Dobes stupid fool, Steve Parsons (who is reportedly a convicted sex offender, btw), has a "service dog" page on his website that hits so many myths and misconceptions--it's a thorn in the side of folks who legitimately know and work service animals.

Plus, the number of pups he pumps out--it's staggering.

Kimbertal is a puppymill, yet folks continue to support them by buying from them--and they farm out more and more bitches, to produce more and more puppies. Yet, they have a "great facility" and people who buy from them are misled to believe they are getting some "great stock."

It's disheartening, trying to combat all the misinformation that gets lobbed at the general buying public.
Very interesting post. So are their dogs poor quality? Or do they just have bad breeding practices? Or Both? I have read some of the threads on the people you mentioned, and I agree they raise way to many puppies imo.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:35 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Their dogs are very poor in really any respect. Very overpriced and the only thing pretty is the website. :0
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:35 PM   #97 (permalink)
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I bought one of her puppies about 6 or 7 years ago. I paid 900.00 for a red Dobie, I think 400.00 to ship her to me. I owned one red female doberman that was about 5 and I had one female dobie that I lost about a year prior to that. I was pretty stupid to think she was selling me a quality well bred Doberman. I obviously had NOT done enough research! I was not looking for a show dog but a quality well bred companion dobie. The dobie I bought seemed to be a sweet girl, (I had her for about 8 months) but she was not what I thought I was getting. I was not happy with her and I let Laura know all the issues I had with the dog she sold me. She eventually said she would take her back and find a new home for her. So I sent her back. Laura did reimburse me for some of the cost of purchasing a dog from but not all. Most of all it broke my heart as I did love the dog and so did my grandsons. I felt that she would always sense that I was not happy with her. I felt she deserved to be in a home with someone who would love her and be happy with what they purchased. Laura did find a wonderful home for her and for that I am thankful. Laura and I do not agree on what a reputable, responsible and ethical breeder is. She is a backyard breeder and she is now a puppy broker. She in no way breeds for the better of the Doberman Pincher. I would tell anybody out there looking to buy a Doberman puppy, avoid Garretts Dobermans!! If you look on her website on her home page down at the bottom she has a statement she put there because of the me " the problem". This is what it says.
SPECIAL NOTICE: We do not claim to have show quality Dobermans.
Most of our Dobes are too large at adult age to even be considered.
We breed for TEMPERAMENT. Our focus lies primarily in providing
a dog that is completely trustworthy around young children ..
while still maintaining the protector instinct.

No other claims are made by us regarding our Dobermans.
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Laura and I have had many written and verbal disagreements, she knows what I think of her breeding doberman standards. She told me I am obsessed! I guess I am! I have told her I will make every effort to keep anyone else from making the same mistake as I did. Every opportunity I get to warn people....I jump on it!! Do your research!!! Rescue a Doberman. But don't buy one of her puppies!
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:43 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Is this Garrett Doberman's in the DFW area? If so, I checked them out when we were looking too. I thought their dogs seemed a bit pricey for what you got. We also considered purchasing litter-mates so the dog would have a 'companion'. I'm so glad I read some of the posts on here before we decided on that. And now that I have a Doberman puppy, it REALLY solidifies what a terrible idea that would be.

Your smiley face with the torch is hilarious!! LOL
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:17 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Was looking at their website today. Puppies are up to $2600 now if ears are cropped. Out of an absolute PET bitch. Only $2100 if u want natural ears. That's more than some show puppies cost!!! And for sure more than most pet puppies who have health tested and titled parents. I always hope people looking for a puppy will google their name and find DT.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:31 PM   #100 (permalink)
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I would NEVER EVER spend $2600 on the purchase of a doberman no make that any dog that has absolutely NO health testing!! Your spending a very very preety penny on something that someone said we raised them correctly their first 8 weeks of life and gave them their appropriate shots and puppy food. Ummm excuse me anyone can do that, but how well is always a different story. Find me a breeder who health tests those in their breeding program, correctly has tempermant tests done, titles all bitches used in their breeding program, and include a good looking crop in the price of their puppies THEN they will have my respect and future purchase. Garrett Dobermans and ANY others who sell their puppies for sky high prices with no credentials get the boot automatically!! Seriously though why would I want to spend my hard earned penny on the knock of Prada bag when I can buy the ACTUAL REAL thing for the same price?? Come on people common sense here!! Its sad to know people spend their hard earned money on the less quality when they can buy the more quality.

Sometimes were better off just rescuing those dobermans who are already out there in the world in search of a brand new life.
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