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Old 09-20-2013, 11:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Attention World Dobermann Breeders

My dear fellow breeders

Posted: September 19th, 2013

I believe that now and for years back all of us had felt the need to express our opinion and to struggle for the well being of our beloved breed. Most of the things were already spoken of and about, yet a little has been done, so both our Dobermanns and we as breeders will be billed with a hefty price. Today the moment has come, more then ever before, for us to stand united and provide to each other a strong support, especially after recent unilateral decision by the IDC council, that becomes effective as of 1st of January, 2015 and upon which there would be no possibility to have docked and cropped dog and have it displayed on any show so the years of our work, blood, sweat and tears will be violently dismissed, all in the name of the decision in which we did not even participated.
Therefore an idea is being born, an idea about forming an international Dobermann breeder’s club. It will not be some obscure, illegal or parallel organization, but simply a club of renown and recognized breeders, the ones that are ready to use any and all means of democracy as well as the right to confront through debate, and if necessary to fight for the well being of our breed. This would be the starting point from which our voice would be heard by the ones that are managing the breeds’ beneficial organizations.
Who knows the breed’s problems better then us and who can advise and who is the one who could and should protect it? Surely, there has got to be the way and the time to get together and meet, at least on more important shows. For now, we need membership, ideas and advices by all of us, so we could do something before it’s too late.

Thank you. We ask you to join us in a single easy step.

Sign in your name and your kennel’s name on the form posted in the link given below.


World Dobermann Breeders My dear fellow breeders


I know some of you might say this is a pet dobermann forum but the problems we are facing is universal...today to us in Europe, tomorrow for you guys in the States..
So if you are a breeder and against this standard change, please show your support by signing the petition.. and distribute this form as much as you can.
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 09-21-2013, 11:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Where is the outcry that was inspired by all the cardio in our breed?
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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When our choices are taken away and the breeders who actually care about cardio are gone on to other breeds, or out of the game all together you won't have to worry about it. It's time we stand together on all issues, not sit here and constantly fight internally.
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Nothing is 'natural' about drop ears. All pure breeds are designed by man with a purpose, form, function and look that is is their heritage, their history - important parts of what made the breed and must be respected and preserved.

If we want the right to have that CHOICE, let's stand up and fight for ALL choice! Let's NOT remain neutral or silent about losing the right to choose just because YOUR choice may not be the one threatened!

In doG, we trust.
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Old 09-22-2013, 04:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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When our choices are taken away and the breeders who actually care about cardio are gone on to other breeds, or out of the game all together you won't have to worry about it. It's time we stand together on all issues, not sit here and constantly fight internally.
So, are you saying that the breeders who are most diligent about cardio screening, and careful pedigree research, are also the exact ones who will leave the breed if there are government bans on cropping/docking?
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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When our choices are taken away and the breeders who actually care about cardio are gone on to other breeds, or out of the game all together you won't have to worry about it. It's time we stand together on all issues, not sit here and constantly fight internally.
Give me an issue worth standing behind.
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Where is the outcry that was inspired by all the cardio in our breed?
Evidently, to some, a cropped and docked dog that drops from cardio at a young age is better than a natural dog who lives a healthy life into its teens.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Evidently, to some, a cropped and docked dog that drops from cardio at a young age is better than a natural dog who lives a healthy life into its teens.
Then humans need to stop rewarding that behavior, for the sake of the dogs and the breed.

I've seen breeders rave about "exciting" breedings to animals who are direct sons/daughters of Dobermans who dropped dead young of cardio, some who can be traced right up the line.

I've seen "reputable" breeders breed to animals far too young to have health testing and titling.

I'm fully aware there is some art, as well as science, involved here, but--based on results--we humans ain't doing so great.

The health of our breed should be what unites everyone.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The health of our breed should be what unites everyone.
Amen.

Sometimes it seems to me it's like taking someone's gun away, the whole ear thing.

Course, we don't need guns in Canada. We just say 'sorry' a lot.

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Old 09-23-2013, 10:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Amen.

Sometimes it seems to me it's like taking someone's gun away, the whole ear thing.

Course, we don't need guns in Canada. We just say 'sorry' a lot.
Gosh, let's not go there, 'k?

I will not give up my own gun. I just don't want my mentally defective neighbor to have the seventeen he has.

Seriously, though, I would like to see some very pro-crop and more pro-choice folks speak up.

This health thing ought to be a single, unifying goal, forget crop/dock debates.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm pro choice 100% but end of day I want the whole package, looks and health, I'm greedy and will fight for both in whatever way I can.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Well you know I have to say something RFR.

With the new change it doesn't seem like there's much of a choice to be had for breeders abroad, unfortunately. Taking away this "choice" could be the last nail in the coffin for many long time breeders. They will move to healthier breeds that don't need to be cropped and docked to preserve their breed type. We can all agree nothing is like a doberman but there are some decent alternatives, and much healthier ones at that.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Personally I think it was a bad move to ban cropped&docked dogs from competing. If they want to ban it happening on any new dogs that is fine, but why punish GOOD dogs and handlers in other countries where it is expected in a breed already struggling for both health AND sport success? Wasn't there a Landgraf dog, a good honest working doberman, that couldn't compete in an international event because he's cropped and docked? I think that is ridiculous and overly harsh.

Unfortunately I don't know of a better cutoff. Perhaps they could say that only dogs done prior to the ban could compete (with papers to prove birthdate) and within 10-15 years no dogs that are cropped or docked can compete... that should give breeders and handlers in crop/dock countries enough time to breed, train, and prove natural competitors. IDK. Something better than that 2 year cutoff they've got going now.




...that said... y'all know I like me a natural dog, so I can't complain about the ban per say. Personally I think that health should be first and foremost and honestly the original doberman is long gone, I think the founder would be rolling in his grave over the HEALTH of the breed alone before he started any fussing about ears and tails.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:16 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Well you know I have to say something RFR.

With the new change it doesn't seem like there's much of a choice to be had for breeders abroad, unfortunately. Taking away this "choice" could be the last nail in the coffin for many long time breeders. They will move to healthier breeds that don't need to be cropped and docked to preserve their breed type. We can all agree nothing is like a doberman but there are some decent alternatives, and much healthier ones at that.
I guess, for me (and apparently others reading along), this begs the question, though--why isn't there seemingly as much passion and uproar about those breeders doing sketchy things, with regard to cardio and other major health issues, as there is about "breed type" as it relates to ears and tail?
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post

This health thing ought to be a single, unifying goal, forget crop/dock debates.
I don't think that is going to happen in my life time. I really wonder sometimes if the breed is still more about its appearance, than its qualities.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:03 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I don't know where people get the idea that when the ban on C/D goes ahead all of a sudden the cardio problem will go away.

First of all,the ban which has been in place in Western European countries for some years now has proven only one thing...the drastic reduction of the population of dobermann in those countries.. they are producing one forth of the litters they were producing before and NO scientific improvement has been recorded health wise!

So,if this universal ban is going to reduce the dobermann population (hence the gene pool) how the hell will it help the breeds health issues in the long run?

If these idiots proposing the ban had any real concern about the health of the breed, they wouldn't bother with C/D and concentrate on strict measures forcing breeders to do more extensive health testing.

My personal belief is that the standard change (ban on C/D) is being made towards making some people in high places happy..that's all
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:29 AM   #17 (permalink)
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My comments in blue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman View Post
I don't know where people get the idea that when the ban on C/D goes ahead all of a sudden the cardio problem will go away...

Um, who said THIS? Makes zero sense.

All that is being said is--why isn't there an outcry about other, far more fundamental things that affect the Doberman?

Get all that stuff fixed, and then hoopledeeray, go for it, on the c/d uproar.


...If these idiots proposing the ban had any real concern about the health of the breed, they wouldn't bother with C/D and concentrate on strict measures forcing breeders to do more extensive health testing...

Hey, AMEN, on that idea. Get folks together, and get that done.

I will be surprised if that gets a universal good reception--but hey, it's certainly a more substantive move in the right direction, for the breed, than focusing on cosmetics alone.
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:09 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Dear Fellow Breeders,

Dear Fellow Breeders,
In the past few days we have together, achieved an important result with more than 400 signatures of Breeders from most nations. Your great and willing support gives us the strength to look ahead and decide what action needs to be taken for the future of our breed.
It is our intention to gather together to create an Executive Committee to discuss what actions need to be taken going forward, and given the enormous participation, propose to choose/elect/nominate one delegate per every 10 kennels enrolled from each country, in order to have a fair and democratic committee, amicably represented by the number of associated Breeders. This will enable us to draw up a draft statute and to propose new ideas and advice.
In addition, we also request for all Breeders to join, even those who have not as yet joined, perhaps because they appreciate the choice of the natural Dobermann, and we would like to clarify that for our purpose, it makes no difference between natural and/or docked and/or cropped. Our intention is for the well-being and the growth of the Dobermann Breed, not only with regard to cropping/docking, but the general decline suffered as a result of the ban on cropped/docked dogs as well as health issues, and we believe the choice should still be left to us as breeders.
This group has not been formed to declare war on anyone. It is our intention to build and nurture our breed and try and preserve the Dobermann, together, analyzing and trying to solve to any problems that we encounter as they arise.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders

__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Cari Amici Allevatori,
insieme ed in pochi giorni, abbiamo raggiunto un importante risultato, piů di 400 adesioni di allevatori ufficiali di ogni nazione, il vostro grande sostegno ci da la forza di guardare avanti e decidere insieme i prossimi passi da fare. Come anticipato, č nostra intenzione riunirci personalmente per creare un comitato esecutivo e discutere insieme sulle azioni da intraprendere, visto l’enorme partecipazione proponiamo di scegliere un delegato ogni 10 allevamenti iscritti per ogni nazione, in modo di avere un assemblea equa e democratica e giustamente rappresentata in base al numero degli allevatori associati. Insieme sarŕ possibile stilare una bozza di statuto e proporre nuove idee e consigli.
Inoltre ci rivolgiamo anche a tutti gli allevatori, anche a quelli che non hanno aderito, magari perché apprezzano la scelta del Dobermann integro, ci teniamo a chiarire che per noi non fa alcuna differenza tra tagliato e integro, ma per il bene e la diffusione della razza, e visto il declino subito a causa del divieto, crediamo solo che questa scelta debba ancora essere lasciata a noi allevatori.
Noi non siamo nati per fare guerre a nessuno,ci piace costruire ed amiamo la nostra razza, per questo cerchiamo di salvaguardarla in prima persona, analizzando e cercando di risolvere insieme ogni tipo problema che si presenterŕ.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Dragi prijatelji odgajivači,
U poslednjih nekoliko dana zajedno smo postigli značajan rezultat sa vise od 400 potpisa odgajivača iz većine nacija. Vaša velika i odlučna podrška nam daje snagu da gledamo unapred i odlučimo kakvu je akciju potrebno sprovesti za budućnost naše rase.
Namera je da se skupimo i zajedno formiramo Izvršni Odbor i kroz to telo definišemo mere koje treba sprovesti, a obzirom na već velik odziv, i predložimo/izaberemo/nominujemo po jednog delegata na svakih 10 odgajivača, probranih iz svake zemlje. Tako bismo uspostavili pravičan i demokratski komitet u skladu sa brojem pridruženih odgajivača. Ovo će nam omogućiti da stvorimo nacrt Statuta i predložimo nove ideje i savete.
Takođe, želimo da da nam pristupe svi odgajivači, pa i oni čiji je izbor Doberman sa ušima/repom jer naša agenda ne čini razliku izmedju psa sa repom i onoga sa kupiranim ušima. Naša je namera vezana za dobrobit i rast ove rase, a ne samo vezana za kupirane pse, ali opšti pad koji će se desiti kao rezultat zabrane kupiranih pasa, kao i zdravstveni problemi, navode na to da izbor treba ostaviti samim odgajivačima.
Ova grupa nije stvorena da objavljuje rat bilo kome. Naša je namera da unapredimo, negujemo i pokušamo da sačuvamo Dobermana, zajedno, kroz analizu i rešavanje problema na koje nailazimo i koji su u rastućem trendu.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders
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Kedves Tenyésztő Barátaim
Az elmúlt néhány napban, amióta együtt vagyunk jelentős eredményt értünk el több mint 400 tenyésztő aláírásával különböző nemzetekből. A Ti nagyszerű és hajlandó támogatásotok erőt ad nekünk előre nézni és eldönteni milyen lépéseket kell megtennünk a fajtánk jővője érdekében.
A célunk az, hogy összejöjjünk és létrehozzunk egy olyan vezető bizottságot amely megbeszélni a következő teendőket az előrelépés érdekében. Mivel hatalmas a részvétel javaslom, hogy válasszon/szavazzon/kinevezzen 1 delegált tagot / minden 10 főre a bejegyzett országok szerint, a tisztességes és demokratikus bizottság érdekében és békésen képviselni a számok alapján összetartozó tenyésztőket. Ez lehetővé teszi, hogy kidolgozzunk egy tervet és új javaslatokat, ötleteket tehessünk.
Továbbá kérjük az őszes tenyésztőket hogy csatlakozzanak ,azokat is akik nem vagy még nem csatlatkoztak talán mert ők a dobermannokat természetes füllel és farokkal akarják ; mi szeretnénk tisztázni, hogy nem teszünk különbséget vágott fülü és vágatlan fülü dobermannok közöt. A célunk a fajta jóléte és növekedése, nem csak a vágás miatt, hanem az általános visszaesés a fül és farokvágás betiltásának következményeként, valamint egyéb egészségügyi problémák miatt valamint mi hiszünk abban, hogy a választást még mindig ránk, tenyésztőkre kell hagyni.
Ez a csoport nem azért alakult hogy hadat üzenjen bárkinek. Azzal a céllal alakultunk meg hogy felépítsük és ápoljuk a fajtát és megpróbáljuk megőrizni a Dobermannt együtt, kielemezni éls megpróbálni megoldani a problémákat és találkozzunk amikor azok felmerülnek.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders
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Estimados amigos Criadores,
En los últimos días hemos adquirido y logrado un resultado importante con más de 400 firmas de los Criadores de la mayoría de las naciones y/o países. Su gran apoyo y su disposición nos dan la fuerza para mirar hacia el futuro y decidir qué medidas deben tomarse para el futuro de nuestra raza.
Es nuestra intención de reunirse y crear un Comité Ejecutivo para discutir que acciones deben tomarse en el futuro, y dada la enorme participación, con el propósito de elegir / seleccionar / designar un delegado por cada 10 criaderos inscritos de cada país, con el fin de contar con un comité justo y democrático, de forma amistosa representado por el número de criadores asociados. Esto nos permitirá elaborar un proyecto de estatuto y proponer nuevas ideas y consejos.
Además, también solicitamos que todos los criadores a unirse con nosotros, incluso los que aún no se han unido, quizás porque aprecian la elección del Dobermann natural, y nos gustaría aclarar que para nuestro propósito, no hay diferencia entre naturales y / o “Crop” y / o “Dock”. Nuestra intención es que el bienestar y el crecimiento de la raza del Dobermann, no sólo con respecto al “Crop” / “Dock”, pero también disminución general de ser víctimas como consecuencia de la prohibición de los perros “Crop” / “Dock”, así como problemas de salud, y creemos que todavía la elección se debe dejar a nosotros como criadores.
Este grupo no se ha formado para declarar la guerra a nadie. Es nuestra intención de construir y alimentar nuestra raza y tratar de preservar el Dobermann, así como, analizar y tratar de resolver a los problemas que nos encontramos a medida que surjan.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Liebe Mitbürger Mitbürgerinnen und Züchter,
In den letzten Tagen haben wir zusammen ein wichtiges Ergebnis mit mehr als 400 Unterschriften von Züchtern aus aller Welt erreicht. Ihre große und bereitwillige Unterstützung gibt uns die Kraft nach vorne zu schauen und entscheiden, welche Maßnahmen für die Zukunft unserer Rasse getroffen werden muss.
Es ist unser Anliegen, unsere Absicht, zu versammeln, um in einem”Executive Kommittee” zu diskutieren, was zu ergreifenden Maßnahmen für die Zukunft wird, und angesichts der enormen Beteiligung müssen arbeiten,vorschlagen,wählen / wählt / einen Delegierten je 10 Zwingern aus jedem Land eingeschrieben, um einen fairen und demokratischen Ausschuss einvernehmlich durch die Anzahl der zugehörigen Züchter vertreten. Dies wird es uns ermöglichen, einen Entwurf/Satzung und neue Ideen und Ratschläge vorzuschlagen.
Darüber hinaus haben wir auch verlangen, für alle Züchter beitreten, auch diejenigen, die noch nicht beigetreten sind, vielleicht weil sie die Wahl des natürlichen Dobermann schätzen, und wir klarstellen möchten, dass für unsere Zwecke, es keinen Unterschied zwischen natürlichen und / oder kupierten oder angedockt und / oder. Unsere Absicht ist es, für das Wohlergehen und das Wachstum der Rasse Dobermann, nicht nur im Hinblick auf Zuschneiden / Docking, aber der allgemeine Rückgang erlitten als Folge des Verbots beschnitten / angedockte(er) Hunde sowie Fragen der Gesundheit, und wir glauben, sollte die Wahl doch noch für uns als Züchter überlassen werden.
Diese Gruppe hat sich nicht gebildet, um den Krieg um jemanden den Krieg zu erklären. Es ist unsere Absicht, unsere Rasse weiter zu pflegen/erhalten und versuchen und die Erhaltung des Dobermann, zusammen, zu analysieren und zu versuchen, auf alle Probleme, denen wir begegnen, wie sie entstehen zu wie wir sie lösen können.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Chers éleveurs, Citoyens,
Au cours des derniers jours, nous avons ensemble, a réalisé un résultat important avec plus de 400 signatures d’éleveurs de la plupart des nations. Votre soutien et une grande volonté nous donne la force de regarder vers l’avenir et de décider quelles mesures doivent ętre prises pour l’avenir de notre race.
Il est de notre intention de se rassembler pour créer un comité exécutif pour discuter des mesures qui doivent ętre prises ŕ l’avenir, et compte tenu de l’énorme participation, se proposent de choisir / élire / nommer un délégué par tous les 10 élevages inscrits de chaque pays, afin d’avoir un comité juste et démocratique, ŕ l’amiable représentée par le nombre d’éleveurs associés. Cela nous permettra d’élaborer un projet de statut et de proposer de nouvelles idées et des conseils.
En outre, nous demandons également que tous les éleveurs, męme ceux qui n’ont pas encore adhéré, peut-ętre parce qu’ils apprécient le choix du Dobermann naturel, et nous tenons ŕ préciser que, pour notre propos, il ne fait aucune différence entre naturel et / ou amarré et / ou recadrée. Notre intention est pour le bien-ętre et la croissance de la race Dobermann, non seulement en matičre de culture / d’accueil, mais la baisse générale subis ŕ la suite de l’interdiction des chiens ŕ queue coupée / quai ainsi que les questions de santé, et nous croyons le choix devrait toujours ętre laissée ŕ nous en tant que sélectionneurs.
Ce groupe n’a pas été formé pour déclarer la guerre ŕ qui que ce soit. Il est de notre intention de construire et d’entretenir notre race et d’essayer de préserver le Dobermann, ensemble, d’analyser et d’essayer de résoudre ŕ tous les problčmes qui nous rencontrons ŕ mesure qu’ils surviennent.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:21 AM   #19 (permalink)
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400 BREEDERS AROUND THE WORLD, SUPPORT US !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:48 AM   #20 (permalink)
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not a breeder, but I may have to sign up to facebook so I can follow all this.

I have always wished that all Doberman breeders would get together, for the love of this breed.

Hugz to All.
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Old 09-29-2013, 12:03 PM   #21 (permalink)
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This is probably the only issue I'll ever agree with you on iceman. So i thank you twice.

All that ruling does is put yet another stress on the breed as a whole thru divisive means.

From my POV - old timers who've endured countless heartbreaks have this additional straw on the back of the doberman to consider- in some cases hastening their exit & contributions along with them.

Thing is -this ruling bans the showing of c/d dogs from countries where it's legal to do so. Thus splitting & narrowing the gene pool further.

That argument "good riddance to bad rubbish" with the presumption pro c/d-ers "must not love the breed " cuts both ways.

There will be consequences to "fixing" what ain't broke- by the time it's apparent it will be too late.
As it is I predict this breed at its current trajectory will be unrecognizable in 20 years in Europe.
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q734 View Post
There will be consequences to "fixing" what ain't broke- by the time it's apparent it will be too late.
As it is I predict this breed at its current trajectory will be unrecognizable in 20 years in Europe.
Noooo...



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Old 09-29-2013, 09:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Oh, docking a baby puppy's tail close to the age of when a human baby boy's penis is circumcised is all of a sudden inhumane?

And cropping a pure breed's pup's ears is inhumane? Cropping is done under the supervision and standards of practice of a DVM.

But, these same people who want "the best for animal welfare," especially France and the Orient-are the major consumers of HORSE MEAT!

And, the Orient, Japan and China, who are so deceitful when killing whales, that they LIE and put on the side of their whale killer boats, "Research Only," as they are killing whale, after whale, after whale, after baby whale.

What hypocrisy.
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:30 PM   #24 (permalink)
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And cropping a pure breed's pup's ears is inhumane? Cropping is done under the supervision and standards of practice of a DVM.
Or by someone with a pair of scissors at their kitchen table.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:47 AM   #25 (permalink)
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But, these same people who want "the best for animal welfare," especially France and the Orient-are the major consumers of HORSE MEAT!
Let's not forget that in Asia not only is eating dog meat commonplace, there's also the practice of cracking open the skulls of live monkeys and scooping out pieces of brain which is considered a 'delicacy'.
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