To Breed Or Not To Breed?

Reds · 06-22-2008, 09:04 AM

First off, I'm not considering breeding. Two neutered dogs in my household. But based on a new member's introduction, I do have a question.

How do you classify people that breed their dogs that have done all the health testing, but have never titled their dogs in show or work venues? They are only having a litter every couple of years, and they waited until their dogs were of a correct age? They screen potential homes, and sell their dogs pre neutered/spayed?

Would they be be considered backyard breeders? I

I'm not trying to justify breeding a non-titled doberman. I happen to agree that we should leave breeding to those that know the standard inside and out, and put up their dogs against others to prove themselves in conformation or working venues as worthy to be bred.

I'm not trying to start a debate on breeding ethics, just wondering if you would still consider this a backyard breeder?

**Luvbirds59** · 06-22-2008, 09:48 AM

YES.....what else would you call them?

thea2003 · 06-22-2008, 09:49 AM

i was wondering the same thing

Reds · 06-22-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luvbirds59

YES.....what else would you call them?

Lazy???

I always think of backyard breeders as pumping out mass amount of puppies with no regard of health of parents, puppies or where they end up.

Again, not saying they should be breeding, but I wonder if there are many out there that fall into this catagory of breeding with the best of intentions, but not interested in putting titles on their dogs?

**dobermansrule** · 06-22-2008, 10:23 AM

"How do you classify people that breed their dogs that have done all the health testing, but have never titled their dogs in show or work venues? They are only having a litter every couple of years, and they waited until their dogs were of a correct age? They screen potential homes, and sell their dogs pre-neutered/spayed?

Would they be be considered backyard breeders?"

I have come to realize it is not so cut-and-dried. Like I always like to do, use our dog/breeder as an example. She has been breeding dobermans for "30 years". She titled (US and Can) a good many of her dogs along the years. A good many she has not. Our dog was born of unfinished, unpointed parents who are both now neutered. Before daddy was neutered, semen was flown off to New Zealand where a litter of puppies was born. Two of those puppies have gone on to NZ championships I understand. That happened when daddy was about a year old. Then our litter happened the way nature intended it, daddy was little over a year. I believe our breeder 'sells' our boys grand daddy as the line 'anchor'. He was US and Can champion and has been studded out quite a bit (our breeder seems to like the frozen semen thing). She still keeps frozen semen from our boys daddy even though daddy is neutered and unpointed/finished. I always ask - why? Our breeder sells pet puppies on a spay/neuter contract but the puppies do not leave her 'fixed'. She crops/docs/shots and all that. Oh, the parent had the core health testing done. Does any of this make this 30 year veteran breeder a BYB? I don't know. Just an example of what is typical out there.

Julie W · 06-22-2008, 10:29 AM

Yes. Titles aren't merely letters surrounding a dog's name to boost their owners ego. Real titles prove a dogs worthiness to contribute to the gene pool in conformation and/or temperament & working ability.

**greenkouki** · 06-22-2008, 12:12 PM

I don't know if there is any term to call a breeder like this. I would want to know why they are not showing if they are going through all this effort to health test... There would have to be a really good reason. I definitely don't think anyone should be breeding unless they have a valid motive. I could maybe understand someone just starting a breeding program with an unfinished (but pointed) bitch but I would still want to know why she wasn't finished or why she is worthy of breeding. An accidental breeding before the sire or dam are titled would be fine, as long as there were plans to finish the parents afterwards, and if all the puppies were sold on limited registration and spay/neuter contracts. But personally, I would not want to buy a puppy who's parents weren't titled even if it's going to be a pet and all the proper health testing were done.

dobesanddragons · 06-22-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobiesrule

I have come to realize it is not so cut-and-dried. Like I always like to do, use our dog/breeder as an example. She has been breeding dobermans for "30 years". She titled (US and Can) a good many of her dogs along the years. A good many she has not. Our dog was born of unfinished, unpointed parents who are both now neutered. Before daddy was neutered, semen was flown off to New Zealand where a litter of puppies was born. Two of those puppies have gone on to NZ championships I understand. That happened when daddy was about a year old. Then our litter happened the way nature intended it, daddy was little over a year. I believe our breeder 'sells' our boys grand daddy as the line 'anchor'. He was US and Can champion and has been studded out quite a bit (our breeder seems to like the frozen semen thing). She still keeps frozen semen from our boys daddy even though daddy is neutered and unpointed/finished. I always ask - why? Our breeder sells pet puppies on a spay/neuter contract but the puppies do not leave her 'fixed'. She crops/docs/shots and all that. Oh, the parent had the core health testing done. Does any of this make this 30 year veteran breeder a BYB? I don't know. Just an example of what is typical out there.

Don't take this the wrong way, okay? But that litter was not "what nature intended". But wording it that way makes it sound better huh? Also, breeders that go only off the past and not the present generation is not taking good steps to prove each generation and make each generation better than the last, bettering the breed. There are lots of breeders who have been breeding for 30 plus years but are still very much into their dogs, proving both sire and dam before breeding, going to shows and trials, fully health testing, taking their dogs thru the WAE, etc. Personally, it is pretty cut and dry to me. That makes that breeder someone I would not personally buy a dog from or support, also interesting to note by history and reputuation that breeder has had some really strange "stuff" going on with their dogs by their own admission for all to see...a search will give you more information.

Zombie · 06-22-2008, 12:58 PM

Personally I would consider them a BYB, but if I was forced to choose between them and lets say... Someone who bred for the hell of it, then yeah I'd go with the person that at least did health testing.

My dad got an Alaskan Malamute puppy from a breeder that did not really show her dogs, but she did do health testing and she was very much in weight pulling. While I would rather go to a breeder that did show their dogs, he got one that actually put those puppies to work. So there might be a tad bit gray area in that respect.

DLS · 06-22-2008, 01:36 PM

I myself am what most of you class as a BYB. I have been involved with this bred for over 30 years. I used to show, I breed occasionally, I have tested a few. Other than the ones I kept and bred myself only two of the dogs I ever sold were allowed to be used for breeding. I could go on and on as to the reasons why I do not show much or test many of my dogs but to tell you the truth it would just be a bunch of excuses. If today I was looking to buy a quality dog from another breeder I would want one from the BEST available breeding I could find. Tests up the ying yang, the best Conformed stud and bitch, from a line that consistently produces GREAT dogs. And a breeder who I could trust to be honest and forthright with me about their dogs.
After 30 years, this is what I have learned.