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Old 06-06-2008, 06:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Head shapes?

I know I might sound a bit slow.. but I've seen some discussion on here about shapes of heads. Can anyone explain what "snipey" heads means? Even better with a picture? And what a head is like that is "too heavy?" I have a particular fondness for a certain type of head and I'm wondering what heads are "bad" and "good?"

Thanks so much, I love all my DT'ers <3

-JB.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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A snipey muzzle is pointed and weak, lacking fill under the eyes. They kinda look like they stuck their nose in a pencil sharpener.

This link has a drawing of a snipey muzzle in the section on deviations: Head

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Old 06-06-2008, 07:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks so much I just read through the wholeee website. Some things seem so minute I probably would have never noticed. Thank you soo much.

-JB.
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks so much I just read through the wholeee website. Some things seem so minute I probably would have never noticed. Thank you soo much.

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It can take years to get to the point where you can really start seeing the standard when you look at a dog - I'm still working on it and will be for a long time.
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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A snipey muzzle is pointed and weak, lacking fill under the eyes. They kinda look like they stuck their nose in a pencil sharpener.

This link has a drawing of a snipey muzzle in the section on deviations: Head
This is amazing stuff. To my novice eye, some of those deviation sketches look almost the same vs the std LOL.

Is there a particular reason besides not having the right 'look' why slight deviations are not good? E.g. what if it's too 'cheeky' or has a 'lippy muzzle': is there a functional reason why these are bad?
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:37 AM   #6 (permalink)
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It can take years to get to the point where you can really start seeing the standard when you look at a dog - I'm still working on it and will be for a long time.
Me too!
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Old 06-07-2008, 08:30 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I am very much a novice...would Roxy's head be considered "snipey?"

Thanks!!
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Old 06-07-2008, 11:04 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Is there a particular reason besides not having the right 'look' why slight deviations are not good?
Deviations can affect function. A snipey muzzle, for example, creates a situation where the strength of the jaws is compromised. Loose lips can result in the dog biting their own lips when they're doing bitework.
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Old 06-07-2008, 11:23 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Deviations can affect function. A snipey muzzle, for example, creates a situation where the strength of the jaws is compromised. Loose lips can result in the dog biting their own lips when they're doing bitework.
I see. That's logical, thanks.
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Old 06-07-2008, 01:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I found the link very interesting at first but decided I had to stop reading because it turns out Zaccy's head is not at all up to standard, but I don't care - as far as I'm concerned he's still the most beautiful thing I have ever seen in my life and I adore him, defective head or not
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Old 06-07-2008, 01:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I dont know if it fits the actual definition, but I have always thought Ziris had a snipey head. She is also a little downfaced.

The best picture I have to show what I mean...

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Old 06-07-2008, 01:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I found the link very interesting at first but decided I had to stop reading because it turns out Zaccy's head is not at all up to standard, but I don't care - as far as I'm concerned he's still the most beautiful thing I have ever seen in my life and I adore him, defective head or not
Haha, I have a feeling that you're not alone. After all, we're talking about living things here. Pointless to think one can have a specimen that will match 'perfection' as dictated by the std in every way/shape/form, so that only thing is to strive towards it.

Dobes all have their own different looks. To date, I've only seen 1 ugly one, the rest are typically noble-looking.
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I found the link very interesting at first but decided I had to stop reading because it turns out Zaccy's head is not at all up to standard, but I don't care - as far as I'm concerned he's still the most beautiful thing I have ever seen in my life and I adore him, defective head or not
Every one of us thinks their dog is perfect-and they ARE in the sense of being perfect companions.

Every dog has faults, there never been a perfect dog born yet. If everyone refused to educate themselves further because the material doesn't say what they want it to say, then the breed would be in big trouble.
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the information guys. This is the exact reason I'm on this forum.


Just one more question I wanted to ask instead of separating this into a separate thread... You know how some Dobes have like black lines on their 'toes'? Is that a fault or is that normal?
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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You know how some Dobes have like black lines on their 'toes'? Is that a fault or is that normal?
Speaking in the strictest technical sense, it's faulty since the standard doesn't call for those markings (called pencil markings). But it's given really minor weight.

There have been a couple of threads on this in the recent past-you can find them with a search.

Most puppies have these markings, they usually disappear as they grow up. If they don't, it's not any big deal.
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
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i have a wet lippy musel and a snipey musel LOL
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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This is interesting stuff...so, is it possible to judge a certain aspects of a puppy's conformation (in general, not just head shapes) or does too much change in the doberman body from puppyhood to adulthood?
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Damn this is an old thread, but still good! I've never come across this before.

What does, "rear angulation" refer to?
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Have a look at the DPCA judging stuff, it's pretty interesting! I have linked you a section with judging the hindquarters > Hindquarters
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