Ethics of breeding (not Dobies) - Page 2

Goathawg · 06-04-2008, 11:49 AM

I couldn't agree more & I want to be a judge

Dobemom2b · 06-04-2008, 11:55 AM

That is one of the main things that got me out of persians. Exotic shorthairs have the same issues. The head shape also causes birthing problems. Even as pets most people eventually stop wiping the eyes daily and they drain as does the nose because there is no nasal tract to allow for evaporation. An amazing amount end up in rescue for dirty faces. They loose the status symbol affect if not properly groomed.

I like the flat face but when you pull the bottom of nose in and up to become a 3rd eye, and especially when the 'peke faced' became so pupular it was just more than I could deal with. It leads to overshot/undershot and even one side of the jaw being uneven from the other. It also can increase cleft palates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burns

Working at a cat practice, I often wonder the same thing about Persians... they are bred to have completely flat, squished faces and stenotic nares so they can barely breathe, and when they do breathe, it's more of a snuffle/wheeze because they can't suck air into those tiny, squished nostrils! Plus all the dental/jaw problems they have because of the shape of the skull. It's sickening and I hate it. Poor things overbred to the point of being unhealthy, just because humans think that's what the "standard" should be. I wonder how in the world should it be considered a standard if the conformation doesn't support natural life??

**velmadobe** · 06-04-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DobeMomToo

One has to wonder when we will establish a "breed standard" for human beings and somehow "cull" those who do not meet the standard in some manner...

We are not talking about humans, and I don't get the two confused. Breed standards are there for a reason - even if the original reason is lost in todays world. There are people I'd love to see culled out of a "breeding" program - but it has everything to do with environment and not genetics. Education remains the key.

I do personally think that some breeds could be less extreme -such as the English Bulldog - but I also think that the biggest issue is the fact that they are popular - and that is never good for any breed.

eminart · 06-04-2008, 01:43 PM

This is precisely the reason I'm drawn to more "natural" dogs. You could point to my last dog, a GSD and mention the sloping hindquarters that has become the so prevalent in american shepherds, but My GSD was from direct german descent and had a more normal rear axle.

sorthund · 06-04-2008, 01:58 PM

My Pug can run very fast and for a long time too due to his non-standard features - slightly longer nose, longer legs and body and he's kept lean. His body actually looks a bit bulldog like, big front and smaller behind, he's NOT square. I know now he's from a "hobby breeder", but I was lucky, at least his eyes are not about to fall out of his head.

Reds · 06-04-2008, 02:24 PM

Having grown up with English Bulldogs, I know first hand how unhealthy the breed can be. Our oldest lived to 9 (Yoda), we lost Spike due to surgery complications for his eyes at 5, and Basil at 6 of heart failure. After Yoda, my dad said no more Bulldogs, and went to Bull Mastiffs instead. Valkyrie was pts at 8 due to bone cancer.

Every breed has their health issues, and that is something people often overlook when looking for a particular breed to own. It's sadly often about outward appearances.

I think that for the betterment of health, small changes would be a good thing for those breeds with facial structure that causes poor breathing. The problem is where does betterment of health while maintaining original structure meet?

DobeMomToo · 06-04-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by velmadobe

There are people I'd love to see culled out of a "breeding" program - but it has everything to do with environment and not genetics. Education remains the key.

Oh, I disagree. In some cases, genetics do play a role. That's why one can't legally marry a sibling or a cousin.

But -- I'd bet there are some that break that rule at least when it comes to mating.

And let's not forget Tay-Sachs.

But I veer helplessly off topic.

WorkingInSTL · 06-05-2008, 09:59 AM

In regards to some breeds, the "standard" that we have always accepted developed more out of human obsession (as another poster put it) with grossly over-accentuating the desireable features that once enhanced the dogs ability to perform its intended duties.

The bulldog is a perfect example of this. The english bulldog that we have come to know today is a far cry from the bull baiting dogs of jolly ole' England. First of all, to look at them, anyone can tell the breed is nowhere near athletic enough to take down a bull. Aside from that, if you ever look at any old drawings of a bull baiting match that were authentically produced when this unfortunate "sport" was socially acceptable, you will see that the dogs pictured look a whole lot more like a staffordshire or pitbull terrier than they do the English Bulldog that we have all come to recognize.

And yes, the standard that has developed has completely ruined the health of the breed. If you talk to any veterinarian, they will tell you that they are one of the most unhealthy breeds you can find.