Kimbertal 2 - Page 51

**KimB** · 06-21-2008, 06:20 PM

Just wanted to let all of you radicals know that I stopped by Kimbertal today and believe it or not TSENTURION IS THERE!!!!!
It was great to see to see all of the wonderful staff members there and the owner too!! And the puppies all looked great and healthy to me.
It still amazes me that this thread is STILL going.
Enjoy your bickering!

**velmadobe** · 06-21-2008, 06:21 PM

Hey Anne - I'm STILL waiting for an answer on that tattoo - truly, this person in rescue would like to know the breeding on the dog. He is right around a year old - would have just turned a year old probably within the last couple of months.

D68
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**velmadobe** · 06-21-2008, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KimB

Just wanted to let all of you radicals know that I stopped by Kimbertal today and believe it or not TSENTURION IS THERE!!!!!
It was great to see to see all of the wonderful staff members there and the owner too!! And the puppies all looked great and healthy to me.
It still amazes me that this thread is STILL going.
Enjoy your bickering!

I wonder if his breeder is aware that he was sold to an American commercial kennel. How sad is that?!

I really don't know European breeder or their reputation, but I know that having a dog you bred end up in either a BYBer pedigree or in a commercial kennel like Kimbertal would be a really reputable's American breeders worst nightmare.

dobeguy · 06-21-2008, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onyx and Xena

?? Thanks for politely pointing out that I might have made an error. The breeder I used @8 years ago lead me to believe that the euro-lines were less inclined to have DCM. I guess I just assumed this to be still true, or why else was everyone flocking to the euro lines! Guess I best do a bit more research!

No, I just found it hypocritical that you told people to stick to facts, yet you couldn't stick to your own advice... I certainly don't blame you for being uninformed, because this is a very contentious issue (DCM) and ALOT of breeders are less than forthcoming, when it comes to DCM and health issues in general. When I first started researching breeders, I can't tell you how many told me there lines were/are completely clear of health problems (euro and Canadian), so I certainly don't blame you for being misled.

dobeguy · 06-21-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KimB

Just wanted to let all of you radicals know that I stopped by Kimbertal today and believe it or not TSENTURION IS THERE!!!!!
It was great to see to see all of the wonderful staff members there and the owner too!! And the puppies all looked great and healthy to me.
It still amazes me that this thread is STILL going.
Enjoy your bickering!

Hi Anne

Onyx and Xena · 06-21-2008, 06:33 PM

again, I stand corrected.

Quote:

The European breeders have only recently (from what I have read) started to admit that they have a cardio problem.

this would explain it.

Kimbertalkls · 06-21-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onyx and Xena

while personally I will never buy another Kimbertal animal, I do think people are not being *smart* in some of their attacks on this kennel. If you truly want to see this kind of operation either come up to *your* standards, or go out of business you need to stick to *facts* and avoid slanderous, emotional statements.

While I agree I don't like the way Kimbertal is run, the way they farm out their breeder females, and breed them year and year again without a break, that's not what's really at issue here, is it? It's the quality of the females, the lack of tracing back the genetics and progeny's problems or lack of problems that should be at issue. Sure, none of us want what happened in Lancaster, PA (all the puppymills) to happen to our precious dobes, but that isn't entirely the case with Kimbertal. The babies come from loving homes(hopefully) and are only at Kimbertal when it's time for them to be sold. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

For me, the biggest issue with this kennel, and many others, is the lack of breeding for breed improvement(or even status quo). Of not culling out the weak and incorrectly bred babies (ahem, I do refer to neutering, not killing of these culls). Of not keeping records when buyers tell you of problems down the road. etc.

I've talked with other breeders at local AKC shows, and was appalled at their lack of concern over DCM in their dobes. They shrugged their shoulders and said it was part and parcel of the breed. If that's true, then why aren't the europeans having the same scale of that problem over there?? I know it does happen (my breeder recently brought over a champion female... and she died of it) but it is no where near as prevalent as here.

I have no doubt that Anne feels frustrated and upset when she's accused of lying when she hasn't lied. And I'm sure, as someone else pointed out, that her defamers will say any picture of that stud in question is either not him, doctored, etc. That would be very frustrating and insulting if it were me that was happening to. I don't blame her for responding to that post. Obviously they have invested lots of $$ to get a good stud in. But that's not the whole solution to their problem. One good stud, and 20 less than decent females still do not improve the breed.

I wish Anne felt as upset over what I feel are more important issues, that of genetics and health. I hope that they are testing their breeders now. I also wish that they would not only post the stud's pedigree, but the dams! Half the genes come from her, so why not show off her talents, too??

Excuse me. Do any of you read my replies? The mothers are on a one litter contract in a home with a family that owns them after one litter. They are not bred over and over, year after year. This is the gossip not fact yet again. They are bred once and then are owned by the family free and clear. The mothers come here to be bred and then the puppies come here for shots at 4 and 6 weeks. At seven weeks they come in to stay.
We are open to the public seven days a week and are staffed so people can come in without an appointment and see everything for themselves. No one has said that there is no genetic testing being done, just the opposite. It is just everyone chooses to say it isn't. I believe last week when I was on I said both World Champions were at the cardiologist. The week before Tsenturion was xrayed and yes he was done in Europe. But of course, this is his imposter according to the posts saying I am a Bull****er. It doesn't matter because no one on here will be satisfied or say that we do test our breeding stock. They will say, well, the cardioligist didn't do a 24 holter test so it doesn't count.
We also have marked on any AKC litter sheet any defect that we were told about. I will say some have litters with defects as every breeder does. We also have a list of breedings not to repeat. Daughter of so and so to this stud produces this fault. Do I think this will be hailed as being a good breeder? No I know this will be used as an example of us breeding too many litters just like everything else I say. Again, we want to breed good puppies. Our puppies do not leave until 9 - 10 weeks at the earliest as they must have 3 parvo, 2 distemper and a kennel cough shot as well as stitches out before they go. It would be cheaper to let them go earlier but not better for the puppy. As to other breeders not having problems in Europe or this country, many breeders unfortunately hush up their problems and cull birth defects so they are not seen. We get a lot of phone calls from people asking about problems in their dogs from other breeders when that breeder refuses to return the phone call.
If we were not trying to keep improving our stock, why would we spend thousands of dollars importing these champions? We were getting $1500 and $2000 for non champion sired dogs ten years ago. With the price of the vet care, oil, gas and everything else I do not think $500 covers the cost of living increases in the past ten years. So our prices are about the same. It can't be to increase our profit. Be well. Anne

Kimbertalkls · 06-21-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobeguy

Hi Anne

Well, even my home computer automatically signs me on as Kimbertal. And I did not write Kim's post but you are humorous.
Kim, thanks for the coffee today. The customers we have make our days worthwhile. Thanks.

Kimbertalkls · 06-21-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMax

1. With all the money you are making, you can't hire a help to assist you with caring for the pups and taking pics?
2. If you are producing so many litters, I can only imagine what kind of care they get if you are the 'only' one there...
3. So, what you are saying is that somehow you are not able to take pictures of the dams eventhough you have at least 3 opportunities to do so: while selling, while breeding, while picking up the puppies (or you don't go to check out the pups? just to collect your 7-week old money makers)... or you don't honestly care who whelps you puppies... as long as she is registered, has a uterus and carries the name of a doberman...
This is really funny for any breeder: oh, I've bred hundreds of litters but the only dam on the website is "Fallen Angel"... LOL... this is ridiculous.

First of all, I don't do photos. My name is not Tiffany.
Second, our customers want to see expression in the face not a side stack.
We are not selling for the show ring...oh, horrors! 90% of our customers want a good, healthy, guaranteed companion. Since 90% of our customers are repeats most must be happy despite what is said on here.
Third, most of the employees are doing hands on care and not pictures. The staff doing the office part handle 25 emails and considerably more phone calls in one day on top of walk in customers, photos,shipping, ordering supplies, etc, etc.
We were criticized for having an employee that does nothing but ear tape every puppy every other day. Now because Tiffany mostly does photos. Six employees and the owners live on site for puppy care but I do remember twenty years ago we had about 20 full time employees. We have no boarding kennel now and no training. We concentrate solely on the puppies.
And do I understand you are saying to put a photo of the mother on as she was when the family took her at 10 or 12 weeks?
We see other kennel's pups coem in for the free ear taping and even otehr customers will comment afterwards that they do not compare even in socialization. Sorry, again this is what I see. Anne

CMax · 06-21-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimbertalkls

We are open to the public seven days a week and are staffed so people can come in without an appointment and see everything for themselves. No one has said that there is no genetic testing being done, just the opposite. It is just everyone chooses to say it isn't. I believe last week when I was on I said both World Champions were at the cardiologist. The week before Tsenturion was xrayed and yes he was done in Europe. But of course, this is his imposter according to the posts saying I am a Bull****er. It doesn't matter because no one on here will be satisfied or say that we do test our breeding stock. They will say, well, the cardioligist didn't do a 24 holter test so it doesn't count.

You just won't accept it, won't you... Neither of your dogs is a World Champion... But for Anne, no matter what the facts say, she's got her own truth... That's why Anne this thread exists...

We choose to say you don't do health testing because you do not disclose this information. You only

... Well, stop

and show us:

1. The number of dogs tested for vWD and OFA and the results - the percentage will do.
2. The Tri-International certificate.
3. The World Champion Diploma...

...to prove we are wrong... it's that simple...

A defendant and a prosecutor both present evidence to prove each other wrong... We have, You haven't...