dobeguy

I think your right as well. If you do a google search for "kimbertal" this thread comes up. Hopefully this thread will deter some people from buying there. I think all these people coming out of the woodwork are ringers for Kimbertal, and are trying to spin what we are saying to lessen some of the negative attention they are getting.

BTW Lawman there are plenty of reputable euro breeders out there that do health testing and put titles on their dogs (working), so it is not a valid excuse to say you bought from Kimbertal because you do not like the look of NA dobes or you do not like show titles. IMO this is just an excuse mills like kimbertal use to rationalize their breeding practices.

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""Life itself is only a vision. A dream. Nothing exists, save an empty space and you. And you are but a thought."

Kratty

Okay, lets do the math Kimbertal has 6 studs listed on the website. Since my girl has turned 2 1/2, i have been receiving letters from Kimbertal every 6 months looking for Kimbertal females to breed to their males. Looking for 6 to 8 females in one letter and looking for 10 to 12 in another. Based on what my letter says, Kimbertal will provide the family with $200.00 for expenses after the breeding and the first 7 weeks of the puppies lives and when they are 7 weeks old, Kimbertal will buy the puppies from based on their weight. Puppies under 14 lbs - $300.00, Puppies over 14 lbs and below 18 lbs - $400.00. Puppies over 18 pounds - $500.00.

Based on this for one stud and finding only 6 females to breed, and will use a conservative average of 7 puppies per litter with 2 pups over 18 lbs, 2 pups below 14 lbs and 3 pups in the middle. The average price of a pup on the Kimbertal site is $2000.00 A family with a female can make $2800.00 for a litter. Kimbertal can make $11,000 off this litter. I already took out the cost they provided to the family with the female, which is $3000.00. Having 6 litters by this stud, Kimbertal will make $66,000 and have produced 42 puppies. Even if they only do this once a year with the 6 studs they already have, they will have produced 252 puppies and make over $390,000. Thats alot of puppies, even with using my conservative figures, which I know which is probably low. I'm sure they will want to move the puppies by the time they are 10 to 16 weeks old. So thats moving over 40 puppies/week during that 6 weeks to maximize their profits. Still, thats a lot of puppies.

I'm sorry, but from what I learned over my few years in the breed, thats way to much. And remember, this is coming from someone that owns a Kimbertal dog.

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BackInBlack

I have really tried to keep myself from reading/replying to these threads, because it makes my blood boil to just read it.

The fact that they make their living on the lives of innocent puppies disgusts me. There is no telling how many puppies they have produced wound up like Gabe (except not so lucky to wind up in the hands of someone who cared!)

They will sell to anyone with a credit card, and like Murreydobe said....it is not only what they produce, but who they sell to..and how it just becomes a ripple effect.

I think that would be my biggest fear about breeding dogs....I know I would do my best to place them in wonderful homes, but all it takes is for ONE puppy to wind up in the hands of someone irresponsible and it would just go ON and ON and downhill from there. The THOUGHT of that is enough to really make me think long and hard.

Kimbertal .....I hope you read this.........SHAME ON YOU!

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Like A Boxer

Everyone's making such great points. I feel so grateful to know that there are decent doberman people out in the world that can take time out of their lives to point people like lil ol' me in the right direction in the vast world of Dobes.


.....but I would still like to know from Anne or whoever else would like to join this forum on behalf of Kimbertal the justification behind selling those dogs for prices up to $3500. They were selling a bitch not even a few weeks ago for that much. Why, I have no idea. But I'd like someone to shed some light on this!!!

This whole thread gets me goin'...... 665fdgidfg%$#$@%&^%$.

-JB.

clipclop

Furthermore- I would really really like to know what people that title their dogs are so "snobby". I have to tell you I was downright wanting nothing to do with the show world when I started looking at getting into dobes. I had no intention on ending up with a show quality dog. For those of you that know me and how I ended up with Wyatt- beyond taking him to a trainer for breed ring training and working through his handler- I dont even know how many shows I will go to- but after getting involved in the local Dobe Club ... i havent met ONE snooty person! They were SO nice and welcoming... helping me tape Wyatt's ears, answering emails- and when one member couldnt help me- they made calls to others to find the help I needed. I just cant even think to describe these people as snooty.

Not only that- but if show people are snooty- lets not forget the arrogance Kimbertal has shown by tossing about their BBB rating.. their outrageous and unjustified price for dogs... and their holier than thou attitude that they are above screening potential dobe owners.

Toronado

I think it is totally proper for Lawman to express his positive experience with Kimbertal and his views on what he likes in a Doberman. What is wrong with someone expressing an opinion?

clipclop

Nothing is wrong with him expressing his view any more than others expressing their negative views with Kimbertal.

Kimbertalkls

I think you are forgetting shots, ears, advertising, food, salaries, electric, phones, oil, company vehicle, new stud dogs, AKC charges, vet bills, chicken, dog food and 400 things I didn't think of off the top of my head like insurance, maintence, licensing, etc. Geez there goes the millions.

Like A Boxer

Oh I forgot this before. Can I just ask why the dogs are kept outside in those metal cage run type things?

-JB.

Kimbertalkls

Also, in all the dragging up of the battle over the puppy lemon law, which excluded wholesalers and the article about it which is about many kennels, not just us, the same things are being said over and over. I have mentioned several times that this is how the ARAs are able to pass the BSLs. Mandatory SNLs and eliminate all kennels but it has not sunk in. I have learned to get along with many different types of breeders.
Here in PA we are currently partnering with the PA Federation of Dog Clubs to fight a "puppymill law" that will include rescues and basically eliminate foster homes amongst other things. We are all on the same side in a lot of things. Tomorrow there is a meeting about this and I am going. I am going to defend rescues so they do not have to have broker licenses to transport, so they do not have to open every foster home to inspection and charge tax on every adoption. So when you think that you know all about us, ask why the federation is on our side now. If you think your home will pass inspection, you are wrong...there must be a ventalation fan in the room where the animal is kept, flourescent lighting and all non porous surfaces-no carpeting or furniture.
Don't think you know the whole story of anyone on this forum let alone us. Gossip is not reliable. Be well. Anne