LawMan

As I expected the personal attacks have begun. Ler me clear this up ..I am NOT a RINGER for Kimbertal I live in BC Canada and the research I conducted was done independent of Kimbertal and without their knowledge. The people I spoke to , and there were several and were NOT referred to me by Kimbertal. I sought them out on my own. Kimbertal is not even aware of whom I contacted to this day.

The snide remarks about me, my abilities and assumptions of my motives mirrors my experience at the show I attended and only proves my case that most of the negative comments herein are based on hearsay and rumour. The attitudes are elitist . You all are very quick to asume and condemn . You make all of these comments without check me out.

Anyone who wants can contact me at my email address ... investigate@telus.net . I can tell you now I will not get involved in negative back and forth but will respond to polite people.

The pup I purchased WAS health checked believe me or not. The mother was in the custody of a local family. The price I paid for my little guy was reasonalble when I compare it to what I will pay for the Standard Poodle I am about to purchase. I personally dont care about earned show titles ... a personal preference. I do NOT believe all show people are 'bad' . I merely stated my experience when attending a large dobe show locally in Cloverdale BC back in 2000. If your read my comments closely you will see I said " Clearly he was frowned on by most, but not all, in attendance" there were some nice people there but they were in the minority.

My male was from Finland where they still 'work' their dogs . His bloodline was also Russian. He was bigger, and more even tempered than most other dogs i have encountered. He was unbelievably intelligent ...taking my standard poodle for walks on the leash, opening doors for us, he would even close his eyes when asked !

You all refer to Kimbertal dogs as 'oversized' but I noticed on your site that there are several breeders with pups for sale that would fall under the same definition ...hmmmmm

I remember back in the 90s when communicating with breeders iin Finland Russian and Italy how they felt the North American doberman was 'undersized' ... surely a matter of opinion but what makes either correct ??

I have friends with the smaller NA look ...narrow heads , small frame much of what I saw when viewing the pics of some of your dogs... very beautiful and fine looking animals but not what I perfer.

Not all large breed dogs pass at an early age. My vets say they see this in all breeds , like humans are susceptable to cancer hip and heart trouble etc. It is surely sad when it happens but I dont agree it is solely size related.


Anyhow I will repeat I have NO motive to support Kimbertal and their staff except based on my experience with them. I will say this tho ... when I got Frank at Kimbertal and blindsided him and Ann with the concerns I initially had when I read the old comments on the web they , unlike some persons here, did not get riled or offended but calmly answered all my concerns and questions clearly, and politely and to my satisfacton . When I asked for a health check it was done.

I am an animal lover plain and simple. When I retire I intend to start an animal rescue in the coutryside of Nova Scotia .

On another topic I noticed on this site this system for ear support ...the pics there arent all that clear ... can anyone shed some lite on this ??

Thanks

Stephano
Vancouver, BC Canada

DLS

velmadobe, no lawsuit threats here, yet. lol.
But i am through with this war of words with the manager of kimbertal. does anyone here know who the actual owners of kimbertal are? Names and phone numbers?

It is time for action!
How do you put an unethical 'business' out of business? You take away their business.

Take away the 'demand' for their 'product' {dog flesh}and their supply of dog flesh will go down.

So any ideas? Lets come together here and work on this.

First I suggest that ALL breeders remember what it was like to be a newbie. ANd when you get those phone calls from first time Dobe people you take the time and have the patience to talk to them and answer all their queiries promptly even when it is a pet they want not a SHOW dog. One of he biggest complaints with puppy people is that breeders will barely give them the time of day if they get back to them at all. This is one reason why they go to a place like kimbertal.

So lets all put pur heads together and come up with some plans to LEGALLY and ETHiCALLY help cut down on the amount of pups that are produced at kimbertal and others just like them.

__________________
There are other fine dogs; then there are Dobermann - the dog of dogs!
www.nopupppymillscanada.ca
www.dobermanassistance.org. www.dobermannrescue.org http://www.doberman911.org:80/seniors/

velmadobe

That is so true! When people talk about big badass dogs - I just want to laugh. The picture of a 40-60 pound Mal hitting a decoy like a ton of bricks is what I think of when I think badass. I've also had the pleasure of seeing some Dobes work (it is not my area, but I sure enjoy watching it) in both PP and Schutzhund - to a one, they were not big oversized Dobes, in fact, a great many of them are totally standard sized bitches that probably don't weigh on average over 70 pounds.

In fact, my breed champion bitch weighs about 67 pounds and I don't think anyone who saw her pass the WAE last fall would want to be on my bad side when I have her standing next to me - I'm no small woman and she almost pulled me over when the decoy got aggressive. I know he was happy to be wearing a sleeve (and knew how to use it).

Big is NOT better when it comes to protection work.

__________________
Dillon's Barclay Amy CD RN WAC CGC TDInc "Velma"
CH Cha-Rish A Moment Like This RN WAC CGC "Louise"
Fitzmar's Command A Minute "Harvard" (10 pts/both majors)
http://fitzmardobermans.freeservers.com/

dobesanddragons

A quick vet check is not the same as complete Doberman health testing. A simple vet check cannot give you the information needed.
Some of the Doberman specific health tests that should be done before breeding include:
Hips
Eyes
Heart - two tests for this
vWD
Thyroid
Liver and Kidney values

I am curious now...why would you say the pup was health checked, and then say when you asked for a health test it was done. What is a health test to you? What is a health check in your words?

Interesting you are planning to start a rescue, that is a good thing and I wish you a lot of success and hope you save a lot of lives. But with all due respect, makes me wonder why you purchased a Kimbertal Dobe when you could have rescued a Kimbertal Dobe instead. Do you currently volunteer with a rescue right now? They always need more volunteers thanks to the high volume of BYB's and mass producers and all those people that don't treat pets right.

__________________
Our aspirations are our possibilities -- Robert Browning

If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything -- Unknown

DLS

And LawMan the most important issue in these discussions is not about the quality of the dogs, it is about the QUANTITY of dogs! There is NO reason on Gods green earth in this day and age for ANYONE to be producing so MANY dogs. PERIOD!

LawMan, If you can make it over to the Island for the Nanaimo Dog SHow, I will be there on the 15th, of June. I would LOVE to meet you in person and discuss Dobes with you. But read the Standard of Perfection for the Doberman Pinscher first. OK.

__________________
There are other fine dogs; then there are Dobermann - the dog of dogs!
www.nopupppymillscanada.ca
www.dobermanassistance.org. www.dobermannrescue.org http://www.doberman911.org:80/seniors/

velmadobe

I think the fact that Anne from Kimbertal is here trying to do damage control is an indicator that we have hurt their business by getting the word out the best way we can. The fact that she is throwing the words "libel" and "attorney" around is all I need to hear to know that I am right.

I've gotten a second threat from Anne - the first one last night, and the second one today to my personal e-mail. I just want to say for the record that the "hearsay" (as she calls it) that I have about her, will Never be posted anywhere on the internet by me, EVER. My beef is with the way Kimbertal runs its business and as far as I'm aware, the constitution of the USA allows me to have an opinion about that. I don't have any interest in talking about peoples personal life on the internet - it is none of my business.

I know that people will keep buying from them - some of the people who buy from them are people who a reputable breeder would not sell to for anyone of a number of reasons - including the lack of puppies to sell. I'm not a commercial breeder. I've produced exactly one litter so far in my over 15 year history with the breed.

I think Anne - needs to get back to her business and maybe think about what has been said on here. I'd love to see some changes made in the world of commercial kennels. I won't ever like them, but they could do things that would sure make the difference in the lives of some of the dogs they sell. Spay Neuter contracts - selling on limited registration - vet references - home visits/permission from landlords to have a Dobe/Rottie, waiting period........... just those things could help make a difference in the number of Dobermans from Kimbertal OR produced with Kimbertal Dobes ending up in rescue/shelter situations.

__________________
Dillon's Barclay Amy CD RN WAC CGC TDInc "Velma"
CH Cha-Rish A Moment Like This RN WAC CGC "Louise"
Fitzmar's Command A Minute "Harvard" (10 pts/both majors)
http://fitzmardobermans.freeservers.com/

robinb

Good point Velmadobes. Regarding size, lets forget about the breed ring for a moment and focus on working sports such as Schutzhund. Working sports require a athletic agile dog with correct proportions. I think if you look at the very top Dobermans in the sport you will find most within the standards. The standard is in place for far more than a beauty contest, dogs within the standard (meduim size, square) are just far more likely to suceed and stay sound in almost any venue. A conformationally correct standard Doberman is very fast, powerful and agile!

__________________


CH OTCH Royalwood Extravert V Legend UDX2 RN ROM - CH Tijac's Victoria's Secret NAP NJP NAJ ROM

BackInBlack

Yes, bigger is not better. Ziris is 65lbs soaking wet.

__________________

Murreydobe

I think it's important to point out the number of dobermans produced every year by Kimbertal and placed with no strings and no screening is just the tip of the iceberg. You also have to consider the ripple effect of their actions.

People follow by example. So the dogs they sell are bred and sold to people who do the same thing: sell puppies with no strings and without adequate screening. That cycle continues over and over again.

The sheer volume of puppies that could be traced back to just one year's worth of Kimbertal sales is staggering.

This places a burden on rescues and shelters from coast to coast.

So let's not get totally hung up on the number of dogs Kimbertal directly places into the population, we can't forget the big picture.

__________________
-------------------------------------------------
CH. Birchrun Who's On First, aka Razzle
Foxfire N KO Simply Madness WAC, aka Connor

DLS

No we cannot forget the 'whole' picture Murreydobes. But i believe if we can cut down on the amount of dogs produced then it will cut down on ALL the other problems associated with this kennels practices. One step at a time.

__________________
There are other fine dogs; then there are Dobermann - the dog of dogs!
www.nopupppymillscanada.ca
www.dobermanassistance.org. www.dobermannrescue.org http://www.doberman911.org:80/seniors/