Kimbertal 2 - Page 13

**reisende** · 06-04-2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luvbirds59

Quoted from Lawman:I have viewed many of the dogs herein and some to me look almost mixed breed with sheppard mix like faces and narrow skinny heads .....not the dogs I have known for over 30 years. They are never the less beautiful animals just not what I and obviously many others do not prefer. You all are convinced you maintain the breed as it was created by Herr Dobermann ... my friends in Europe do not agree. Who is to say who is correct ?? Both are entrenched in their OPINION but opinion does not make you RIGHT. I side with my freinds overseas as that is where the breed began.....who knows I could be wrong but I surely will not attack you PERSONALLY for your belief but I will criticize rude, snobby behavior which is what I have witnessed on this site

Lawman....I'm not sure what head pictures you looked at....the dogs of DT come from anywhere and everywhere....BYB's, Greeders,Puppy Mills, Europe, Canada, America, Pets, Show dogs, Working dogs, Agility dogs etc....Some are Champions in show, work, others just in our hearts..... DT is not what you think. We are here to help each other learn more about the breed we ALL love so much. Not too many of us have show dogs.....so again I'm really not sure what you are talking about. The few male/female dogs here on DT with or working on their AM Championships in confirmation do not have skinny heads or bodies.

Carol & Petey!
ox

carol, you forgot dobes from Asia as well!! the dobes on DT are literally from all over the world.

**Luvbirds59** · 06-05-2008, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reisende

carol, you forgot dobes from Asia as well!! the dobes on DT are literally from all over the world.

I thought my Etc. covered that!

But you my friend are 1000% right....DT represents Dobies from all over the world! We all come together here to learn more about the breed and to do what we can to better the reputation and the breed as a whole, once we learn the truths about bad breeding....most of us won't support it ever again. If we can help one Doberman have a better life, DT has done what it was created to do.

Carol & Petey!
ox

**JenTN** · 06-05-2008, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobiesrule

I'm late to this thread and maybe this is off topic, but I couldn't help but go to the Kimbertal website. I see they take major credit cards. I have suggestion for improvement in the e-commerce spirit of running a business moving puppies.. on the puppies for sale page, they should add a "Add to Shopping Cart" button by each puppy so as potential buyers scroll through, they can simply click Add to Shopping Cart, then be directed to a CheckOut page where they can review their selections before purchasing. Then, if they really want to get their e-commerce act together, they can add an inventory control system that takes in the orders, flags inventory shortages and sends a notification to the production department to start producing more puppies to fill the orders. Now that would be a slick operation.
(sarcasm intended)

You know, there is a pupymill lab breeder that has exactly what you are talking about! They t5ake Paypal, and you scroll through and choose the sex/color from x litter and put your deposit w/ paypal.

Rauschund · 06-05-2008, 07:54 AM

I see all this talk about International and World CHampions. Can anyone tell me what it takes to be one of these? If I am not mistaken you can become an International Champion in one show, but I could be wrong. I know an American CH takes 15 points including 2 majors wins, and in Canada it is 10 points with 1 major win. So both of these require some true competition and more than one judges opinion.......anyone know?

**Megs** · 06-05-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rauschund

I see all this talk about International and World CHampions. Can anyone tell me what it takes to be one of these? If I am not mistaken you can become an International Champion in one show, but I could be wrong. I know an American CH takes 15 points including 2 majors wins, and in Canada it is 10 points with 1 major win. So both of these require some true competition and more than one judges opinion.......anyone know?

From the UKC website:

To earn a UKC Ch. title, a dog must:

1. Earn a minimum of 100 Championship points
2. Earn points under at least 3 different UKC licensed judges, and
3. Win 3 Best Male/Best Female (or higher) classes with competition at 3 different shows under 3 different UKC licensed judges.

Points Schedule (Breeds without varieties):

1st place class win (Puppy, Junior, Senior, Adult, or Breeder/Handler): 10 points
Best Male/Best Female: 15 points
Best of Winners: 10 points (must have best male/best female compete against each other class to be held and points to be awarded)

There are no other points awarded for BOB, Group placement, or BIS.

Here is how competition is calculated and Championship requirements. The requirements for a Championship is a minimum of 100 CH points and three wins with competition under three different Judges. Competition is defined as follows:
As long as the Judge does not withhold a placement or higher award, the appropriate points will be awarded to the dog regardless of how many dogs are entered at the class level in a breed. However, there are no additional Championship points awarded for going Best of Breed nor will a Best of Winners class be held or points awarded if the Best Male and Best Female winners are not present for this competition.

Competition is credited in one of the following manners.
1. The class dog must win a minimum of their Best of Sex (Best Male or Best Female) and win over another class dog (any class) of the same breed, same sex.
2. If the dog is the only one of its sex it must also win a minimum of their Best of Sex and beat the other Best of Sex for Best of Winners. In other words the Best Male and the Best Female would compete, and the dog awarded the Best of Winners would receive an appropriate competition win.
3. If the class dog is awarded the Best of Breed win OVER either Champions or Grand Champions of the same breed, competition would be credited.

Here is where it can get more complicated.If yours is the only dog entered in your breed, in order to gain competition the dog would have to either:
a) Place in Group competition if groups are held, beating another dog in their respective group or
b) Be awarded a Best In Multi-Breed Show or Reserve Best In Multi-Breed Show.
c) There are NO additional Championship points awarded for placing in group competition or for being awarded Best/Reserve in Multi-Breed Show.

Here are the requirements for a Grand Champion (GRCH) title.The requirements to earn the GRCH title is as follows: A Champion dogs must win the Champions class a minimum of 5 times with competition (a minimum of 3 Champions shown in this class) under 3 different judges. A Champion dog may earn a competition win towards its GRCH title if it wins BOB over a Grand Champion and the total number of dogs entered in the both the Champion class and the Grand Champion class meets or exceeds the minimum 3 dog requirement.

clipclop · 06-05-2008, 09:19 AM

what about the "FCI" or something I see ... I dont know if I even got that right... i've seen some dogs with those titles that look down right odd

**Megs** · 06-05-2008, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clipclop

what about the "FCI" or something I see ... I dont know if I even got that right... i've seen some dogs with those titles that look down right odd

From the UDC website:

UDC Conformation Events
by Ray Carlisle, UDC Past President

The UDC conformation event was designed to be a breeders' tool. The event has utilized several features of both FCI and AKC events in order to give the owners and breeders access to valuable information for use in their breeding programs.

UDC's conformation classes are divided by age and sex for Puppies (6-9 months and 9-12 months) and Youths (12-18 months and 18-24 months). The adults are divided by sex into the following classes:

Bred by Exhibitor
Open
Working
Sport
Champion
Best of Breed

Dogs are judged for their rating against the Standard, not one another. All entries will receive critiques and will be rated Excellent (E), Very Good (VG), Good (G), Satisfactory (S) or insufficient (I). All E-l rated dogs will initially return to the ring for consideration for the CC award; and, the next E-rated dog from the class from which a CC was awarded shall return for considerations for a CC award. Challenge Certificate (CC) may be awarded to dogs that have been rated Excellent (E). Only one Challenge Certificate (CC) may be awarded to a dog without the dog having passed the appropriate temperament test for the class in which is it entered.

Dogs are structually evaluated using the American Standard as the description of the ideal Doberman Pinscher. A rating and written critique of this evaluation is recorded for each dog entered and a copy given to the owner.

For a Champion Title, three CCs must be won under three different judges and the dog must have obtained a title recognized as per the working or sport dog classes, such as Obedience, SAR, Guide and Assistance, Schutzhund, and Ring Sport. This method of judging takes considerably longer to execute, but provides written and verbal information that is not available in other competitions.

Broheim · 06-05-2008, 10:23 AM

This thread is embarrassing...from both sides of the argument.

**Megs** · 06-05-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broheim

This thread is embarrassing...from both sides of the argument.

Really? What are you embarrassed about?

Dobemom2b · 06-05-2008, 10:57 AM

IABCA Title Requirements

Title Requirements
The title requirements listed below are set forth and awarded by the Union Cynologie International e.V. (UCI) headquartered in Germany. International All Breed Canine Association of America (IABCA) has been granted dispensation by UCI to sanction shows in the United States and to award UCI certificates and titles.

PUPPY/YOUTH TITLES
The requirements for puppy/youth Titles are different than that of the adult dog Titles. The puppies must earn three certificates in order to receive the (appropriate for age) National Title. If the puppy receives one additional certificate (appropriate for age), the puppy may apply for the International Puppy/Youth Title (appropriate for age).

ADULT TITLES
PLEASE NOTE: All levels of Championship Titles require THREE award certificate cards (Orange Cards) of the appropriate rating for the Titles to be issued.

*It is possible to complete the International Title before completing the National. If an adult dog enters all three days of shows, and does well (V-1) all three days, the International Title will be earned. (The club assures the proper mix of three different judges, from at least two countries to all who enter the three days.)

*Title Fees: UCI currently charges a processing fee Of $40.00adult/$25.00puppy. .

*NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP -A National Championship title is achieved after receiving three (V-2) "CAC" certificates.

*INTERNATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP- An International UCI Championship title is achieved after receiving three "Certificat d'Aptitude au Championat International de Beaute "Certificates of Beauty" from UCI. These certificates must be awarded by three different judges, with at least two of the judges residing in different countries. (for example: 2 Americans & 1 Canadian. or 1 German)

*CHAMPIONKLASSE- Having received a National or International Championship a dog will be entered into this class in order to finish receiving the necessary "CAC" or "CACIB's" to have both championships, thereby, qualifying it for entry into the next higher class (Ehren Class).

After receiving both National and International Adult Championships a dog may move up and compete for additional higher) championship titles. Also, note that the necessary certificates for a particular championship must be filed with IABCA before entering the next highest class. See List of Klassen/classes)

Following is a list of Championat titles in progressive order. Next to the name of the Championat title is a list of the proper "ANWARTSCHAFTSKARTE" AWARD CERTIFICATE (orange card) required to qualify for that title. (Remember it takes three certificates of the proper award (as listed) in order to qualify for each championat).

LIST OF CHAMPION AT TITLES
(WITH REQUIRED AWARD DESIGNATION)

Puppy/Youth:
National Baby Championat - BA
International Baby Championat - BA
National Jungsten Championat - Jü.A
International Jungsten Championat - Jü.A
National Jugend Championat - JA
International Jugend Championat - JA
National Junghund Championat - JHA
International Junghund Championat - JHA

Adult:
Verbands Sieger - VA (Club award)
Klubsieger - SA (Club award)
Nationale Championat - CAC (National Champion)
Internationale - UCICB (International Champion)
Ehren Championat - CACH (Honor Champion)
Ehren Championat in Bronze - CACH-B
Ehren Championat in Silver - CACH-S
Ehren Championat in Gold - CACH-G
Weltschonheits Championat - WSCH (World Beauty Champion)
Weltschonheits Championat in Bronze - WSCH-B
Weltschonheits Championat in Silver - WSCH-S
Weltschonheits Championat in Gold - WSCH-G
Welt-Cup-Sieger Championat - WCSg.CH (World Cup Winner Champion)
Welt-Cup-Sieger Championat in Bronze - WCSg.CH-b
Welt-Cup-Sieger Championat in Silver - WCSg.CH-S
Welt-Cup-Sieger Championat in Gold - WCSg.CH-G
Welt-Super- Cup Championat - WSCSg.CH (World Super Cup Champion)
Welt-Super- Cup Championat in Bronze - WSCSg.CH-B
Welt-Super- Cup Championat in Silver - WSCSg.CH-S
Welt-Super- Cup Championat in Gold - WSCSg.CH-G
Alters Championat -AC (Veteran Champion)
Super Veteranen Championat - SAC (Super Veteran Champion)
*The dog must have earned the required Championat title in order to be shown in the Klasse with the same name. In that class the dog works towards earning the next highest title. For Example, a dog that has earned the Ehren Championat in Bronze title enters the Ehren Championat in Bronze Klasse. (In the Ehren Championat in Bronze Klasse the dog works towards earning the Ehren Championat in Silver Title, that is why in the proper rating in the Ehren Championat in Bronze Klasse is CACH-S).