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Originally Posted by reisende  very true. there are some countries in europe which are producing dobermans by the masses and only about 1% of them are worthy to be called dobes; the others.. hm. it goes to show that even within europe there are big differences in the dobermans. |
Exactly. Europe is a huge place. And all of the Dobes all over the world came from Germany not even *that* long ago when you look and study the breed history, in the US, the 7 sires, etc. What is the definition of a North American Dobe, or a European Dobe? When does the dog imported (all of our lines of Dobes in North America were imported here) become "American"? When does the dog exported from North America become "Euro"?
Keep in mind, there are Dobes ALL over the world, not just NA and Euro. There are lots of different breeding programs of all types. There are Dobes in pretty much every country, Asian countries included. Yet no one says I have an Asian Dobe.
Here is another thread some might enjoy:
Breeding practices - another question (not vWD) King Leonidas
For those who have already those threads you can probably stop reading now, as you have heard all this before from me. lol.
Just as an aside - to the person going on about the differences between the Dobes, you cannot tell the difference in a picture in the lines of the dogs...makes me wonder just what your experiences are with Dobes over the years. Of course, there is a lot more to a Dobe than just a picture. But I could post some pictures of various dogs and we could play a guessing game. Maybe even BYB Dobes, puppy mill Dobes, Dobes from other countries, Japan, India, Australia, the UK, the US, etc. But what would that accomplish (other than just another excuse to look at Dobe pics
)? There is more to what a Dobe is than just structure of course, but structure does play an important part in a working breed bred for personal protection. It isn’t just a mere beauty contest in this breed. The Dobe standard produces a powerful working dog. Looks are not just to be aesthetically pleasing, they are important to the Doberman in other ways as well. Form follows function so a well-bred Doberman that is conformationally correct is an asset when the dog is working as well. Faulty hips, improper top lines, etc. all effect the way that the Doberman can work.
In North America, registered Dobes are mainly from BYB's and the like, that doesn’t even include all the unregistered ones. It is a HUGE problem here. But there are some breeders that ARE getting titles and breeding a better Dobe and doing tests and titles before breeding. Some people are doing everything with their dogs and my hat is off to them. I think titles are both ends are important. I think proper conformation is important, health is important, working ability is important, as well as character, solid temperament, confidence, drive, trainability, etc. I always keep in mind though, while dog sports are more information for a person to their dog and can be very rewarding to be involved with for owner and dog alike, Dobermans were not created for any sport, they were created for personal protection. But the sports can give you insight to temperament, which is important IMO. Temperament is what makes a Dobe the Dobe, it is a huge deal. And sports can give the Dobe a job to do, which is hugely important. I wish more breeders and owners would get involved the various sports that are offered with their Dobes.
In my current position I do a lot of work with statistics. The T-scores come from the total population and can give us a lot of information. However, in Dobes I think it is unfortunate that we don't have more data available to objectively look at and follow when it comes to the temperament of Dobes in NA. I think the views are very slanted as not everyone has the time and money and/or knowledge to compete in both AKC conformation at that level and also give SchH the time it deserves. That is not the total population by far. Not a decent sample. Hopefully, we will see more people getting interested and see them and their Dobes going out to SchH with their Dobes, (heck, doing ANYTHING with their dogs to give them work, as most don't even do anything) regardless of stereotypes (GSD owners have them) even within the so called Dobe community. Then, we would have a true representation of what a Dobe is capable of since we would have the numbers to see. Until then, the statistics are very slanted. And stereotypes abound.
My point is a good Dobe being a good Dobe, regardless of where in the world it was born. The Dobe is one breed. And I love that breed deeply. It is a personal pet peeve of mine when people stereotype so negatively, like all Euro Dobes are fat or too hard to live with to make good pets, or all North American Dobes are weak and light boned, blah, blah, blah, it gets so old. And many of these same people don’t even have real experience at all with the Dobes they bad mouth, rarely have they lived with them and gotten to know them personally.
My point is and remains to be : A good Dobe, is a good Dobe, and good Dobes can be found all over the world IMO. They are not ONLY found in one very small part of the world. This is my favorite breed for a reason and many others favorite breed for their reasons; they are very versatile dogs, excelling at many different types of work all over the world for their “people”. To get politically correct, the Dobe was bred as personal protection dog to their owner, not to play doggie sports under fake human conditions (agility, SchH, flyball, rally, etc.), or do Search and Rescue, or to be a best friend and partner in crime to a young child (as they were to me as I was growing up). But they do all of these things and many more, and do them WELL! I have heard of them herding sheep well and being good hunting dogs. Dobes have fought for the United States before in the war. Many protect their owners when the situation calls for it, they are watchful, always devoted. This breed is a very well rounded versatile breed. From rescues, to show, to performance, to the family pet and everything in between; I can’t imagine not living with this breed and sharing my home, heart, and life with them by my side.
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