SchH_Mom

I don't think I'm getting you wrong... In fact, I think we are in complete agreeance. I wasn't trying to imply or insinuate that v Neerlands Stam was known as a working line kennel, (especially in the same realm as Marco's or Martin's or Alexander's dogs, let alone when you get into the Bayern, Mooreiche or Weyermuhle lines).

In fact, if I didn't agree with you, I wouldn't own dogs from these lines.

I was just responding that this show kennel has indeed been mindful of temperaments and working ability in their breeding program, both "past" and "present", and has indeed produced dogs with "decent working abilities".

__________________
"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
but performance indicates what the animal actually is."

bonzo

Ah OK then, by the way in the past there were some great pedigrees which combined some Neerlands stam and some Mooreicheblood espescially with Castor. It also seems you spend some time with Albert en Marjan Verhoef some time ago

SchH_Mom

Yes, agreed... and Castor v d Mooreiche sired one of his favorite bitches, a bitch by the name of Isis. (Granddam to my daughter's "Zeke" on the bottom side.)

BTW, I wasn't there in the Netherlands visiting Marjan, but since we both had Asco pups, I was able to ask her about dogs that she had seen work in person when inquiring about pups over there in Nederland.

But you are in Belgium, are you not? Truth be told, I don't know why I think you're in Belgium. Maybe I was thinking of Herman and assumed you were there too.

__________________
"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
but performance indicates what the animal actually is."

bonzo

I'm from Belgium but Herman isn't he's from Holland. Now that's a big difference ask Elly hahahaha

elly

When I have to write it down, it took me more then one day ha ha

No just kidding, there be no much different between your country and ours, in fact we do a lot together, we trial together train together, just how it must be.

What about the discussion, you all seem to forget, that in the past these kennels produced great dogs, but what happened the more beauty came into, the more the good trainers stay away from the dobes, here in Holland most judge from working trials, started with a dobe, also many people who are training with a mall or GSD. Humprey is a great dog, as well as working as in the house situation, so is Blade, Hajo I never saw in trials, for myself when I choose a dog or kennel, I want to see the dogs on the working field, not only titeld.

I see a lot of good working kennels, but the problem is that there are not so many good trainers for the dogs, because they switch in the past to an other breed. So it isn't always so black and white as it seems. Find a good working home for your dobe isn't easy, so a lot of dogs ended up in the living room instead of the working field.

For the Netherlands I can say that there are good working dogs at the moment, you see more dobes in trials and that is a good sign. Take Johnny with Coach he became 3 rd on the Dutch All breeds wich is great, hopefully next year there will be more dobes on the All breeds.

__________________

bonzo

Indeed Elly here in Belgium people like Renaat Brusseel and Roger Snollaerts all started with dobers and according to some of them they say: If you can bring a dober to a decent level of competition you can work with any breed.

Blitzkreig

Great info regarding Neerlands Stam.

__________________


"Never under estimate the power of stupid people in a large group"

“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong”

SchH_Mom

My bad... I had a pretty good idea that you were in Belgium, and I knew Herman was in Holland, must have been a blonde moment... (no way will I admit it might be age!)

__________________
"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
but performance indicates what the animal actually is."

SchH_Mom

Great points Elly and exactly why we relied on Marjan and others there in person who have seen these dogs work before considering a puppy from them.

It is Emily who is in love with purely the working lines and consequently, we have some of those. But Jennifer wanted something that she could show as well, which is what brought us to looking at some of the show lines. Though SchH and temperament were always our priority.

In fact, when we ask for a pup, we let them know we're not breeders, our priority is the sport, so consequently, we prefer males. At the same time, we tell them that sex and color is secondary to temperament and structure, with temperament being our #1 criteria every time. That is why we chose a Humphrey litter (our Zeke) over a Hajo Gino litter for Jennifer. And why we are now waiting on a Blade puppy as well.

__________________
"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
but performance indicates what the animal actually is."

elly

Here a picture of Blade taken on the WK in Austria, from wich combination you will get a puppy? Blade with ?

I like blade, its a nice dog with a very nice attitude.

It is always diffecult when you don't see it yourself, you always have to wait what you get, what for one person is great can't be for the other, what doesn't mean it is not good.

It is nice that you have people who you can trust, to see and tell you

I see good dogs with bad handlers, and bad dogs with good handlers, so that it looks great, it is all so relatively.

For myself I like lines who fit toghether, and that is what I look at, the parents must be healthy dogs, and willing to work. Beauty is never on the first place.

__________________