familydobes.com - Page 4

Charlie · 08-24-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobeguy

LOL. I love when people say "breeder A" keeps his/her puppies with the family and around children, as if that is some kind of incredible accomplishment on the part of the breeder. A better accomplishment would to state the longevity, health testing and titles won by ones dogs. Also, who the hell cares if he has a science degree? What does that have to do with the dogs he produces?

As far as the breeder is concerned. My main concern is the amount of litters they are having. As other people have said, having five litters on the ground puts them in puppy mill territory. Also, I would hope they do the necessary health testing, I really don't feel like going through their whole site. The excessive

about how great and awesome their dogs are, make me want to throw up.

I will give them credit for at least working some of their dogs and trying to put titles on their dogs as well, so in that aspect they aren't completely full of it.

It looks like you're the one full of it. You just don't know what you're talking about!

CMax · 08-25-2008, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie

I have met Steve and been to his place.
This is NOT a puppy mill.
He has a science degree in genetics and nutrition.
He is dedicated to Doberman's, with health and temperament.
His Doberman's, adult and puppies live with and around his family, children, and they are very well socialized.
I went with my Wife and Daughter, drove almost 600 miles one way, and we were so impress with Steve, his dedication, and the quality of his Doberman's that my daughter bought one of the last females.
We are extremely pleased.

If anyone has any questions they can email me and I can then have my daughter contact you.

Definitely a science degree in nutrition - check out how fat his dogs are! LOL

I once compiled a 'black' list (that's following Lorna's suit on DR). Shortly after Steve contacted me and threatened to file a lawsuit against me for slander. When I explained why he was on my black list and asked him to provide info on the health testing, etc-etc, he disappeared, but kept sending me emails from fake accounts trying to picture me as the bad guy...

Well, anyway, this guy is sick no matter what you say. 14 or 15 bitches ready to pop?! And you are talking about how awesome this guy is? Sick-sick-sick...
Besides, I haven't seen a single picture of him playing with his dogs. But there are plenty of pictures of his dogs roaming the farm like horses - not sure what kind of socialization you are talking about in such environment.

And I don't think his degree is of much help if he keeps breeding the same stud to the same bitches over and over again! Oh, what an accompishment!!!!

izzy's girl · 08-25-2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie

It looks like you're the one full of it. You just don't know what you're talking about!

It's unfortunate that there is so much misinformation flowing about family dobes. I, too, have met and eventually purchased a pup from Steve. He is a very open and honest breeder who allowed me to view ALL of his facilities and meet any of the dogs I requested, and spent time working them while I was there. He also answered all of my questions, and I believe, honestly. He was very transparent about some of the mistakes he has made along the way, and what his breeding goals currently are. He also went through the all the bloodlines (sire and dam) of the pup I was considering and discussed, frankly, the strengths and possible criticisms. If you all are honest, there are no perfect bloodlines and you, as the breeder, should be making the best breeding decisions possible not just for conformation and temperment (ie my first dobe that dropped dead in my arms at age six), but also for health. We also went through every title on every dog in the dam and sire's lines, as well as titles he is currently working on with the dam. He has performed all health testing on the dam, and all testing has been done on the sire in Germany where he is located (for those of you who think he only breeds from within). As far as having five litters on the ground at once, that just simply is not true and I don't know where it came from. Perhaps, in his early days, he made that mistake, but there was only one when I was there and one that was expected and that is the last one for the year. As far as breeder support, wow, I couldn't ask for more. The first week I was home with my new little girl was super busy and I hadn't called with any questions, so he called me after FOUR days to make sure all was well since he hadn't heard from me. Since then we have been in contact at least weekly regarding her progress, and he is available at a moment's notice to answer questions. I understand that not all breeders are going to see eye to eye, but spreading lies is another story. Finally, about the price. Before I traveled to Arizona to see his pup, we spoke on the phone for over and hour. Once there he spent approximately four hours with me. He ENCOURAGED me to visit all the breeders whose pups I was considering BEFORE deciding. He and I talked extensively about what my goals were and if this pup was a good match for me. And after spending nearly 10K on health problems with my first dobe (all due to life threatening conditions treated at a specialty practice in so cal and UC Davis...500 purchase price... my mistake), I was willing to pay for the service, support, and quality I was getting. I couldn't be more pleased with my girl. I know this is not going to change the minds of those of you whom have major philosophical differences with Steve regarding breeding, but I do hope it gives a more balanced perspective to people like me who are looking for a good breeder.

**Like A Boxer** · 08-25-2008, 12:39 AM

Why is it that every time there is a critical discussion of a breeder people pop up out of nowhere defending the place? I'm sorry but what do people do? Sit at home and Google the breeder daily to see if they can jump in and stick up for them? Seriously. It happens every friggin' time. There is no way that it's coincidence.

**RedFawnRising** · 08-25-2008, 12:51 AM

From Family Dobes website, Assistance dogs page: Take for example a blind person with a friendly Golden retriever as a seeing eye dog, and he hands over his wallet to a cashier and has to hope they are honest and give him the right change. Do you think the outcome is different for a Doberman seeing eye dog?

Bwahahaha! Idiot.

Does he even know any blind/visually impaired folks? Does he seriously think they just "blindly" hand over their whole wallets when paying for purchases?

Even funnier, that somehow, the Doberman will know the sneak thief cashier is taking a fifty instead of a twenty. Hehehehe.

Charlie, tell your friend to get a clue about how disabled folks actually manage daily tasks--if he wants to appear less an idiot on his own "informative" website.

I am getting whiplash from old threads popping up!

izzy's girl · 08-25-2008, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliabustard

Why is it that every time there is a critical discussion of a breeder people pop up out of nowhere defending the place? I'm sorry but what do people do? Sit at home and Google the breeder daily to see if they can jump in and stick up for them? Seriously. It happens every friggin' time. There is no way that it's coincidence.

No, it's probably not what you would consider a coincidence. If you'll notice, that post was my first. I've spent months reading this site but have never posted. I was actually on the site trying to find some more opinions, info, resources, etc on feeding a raw diet (something steve and I discussed this morning... looking for arguments from both sides). While at it i searched to see if i could find any more of the old threads about family dobes. I had read much of the stuff BEFORE I purchased my pup, and honestly, went in a bit skeptical. So, I guess I just wanted to give the flip side. I've never liked seeing someone falsely accused.

Now, since I don't have time to google the breeder daily and wait for something to pop up... I'm off to bed. I have a living to earn

**RedFawnRising** · 08-25-2008, 01:48 AM

I've never liked seeing someone falsely accused.

Why is it, when folks state a negative opinion about someone's breeding program, and give reasons for their negative opinion--that's a "false accusation."

Why then should not your positive opinion also be a falsehood?

Seriously, I am glad to hear not all experiences there are bad. You seem satisfied. Thanks for sharing--intelligent consumers will form their own opinions based on verifiable facts such as health testing, pedigrees, conformation evaluation, etc.

No need to sling "false accusations" about matters of opinion.

**RedFawnRising** · 08-25-2008, 01:50 AM

That reminds me, I despise the conformation on that red stud posted on their home page--breed ring experts--am I wrong here?

That shoulder looks extremely steep and straight to me, and he looks weak in the gaskin/hock area too.

Just overall not a balanced athletic-looking dog to me.

**Incredibledobe** · 08-25-2008, 01:59 AM

Quote:

As far as having five litters on the ground at once, that just simply is not true and I don't know where it came from. Perhaps, in his early days, he made that mistake, but there was only one when I was there and one that was expected and that is the last one for the year.

Are you kidding? He has 5 litters right now! I believe that makes around 11 this year- could be wrong about that, but not about the 5 litters. I am on the UDC board and there was much discussion and much research before denying his membership. Sorry, but he is still breeding just as much. Let's see, from his website:
Litter 1 born 5/25/2008
Litter 5 born 8/18/2008
So, that would be 5 litters in 3 months, now who's lying?

If he is such a responsible breeder, answer this, or maybe you can ask him and get a straight answer - why does he need to breed that many litters? Shouldn't it be about quality and not quanity?

As for breeder support, one of the things that pisses me off the most about him is the fact that he has said you pay for this. Everyone else is doing it for free, but Steve is so special, you need to pay him for breeder support?
From his website...

I

Quote:

also want to be a support to you and your new Doberman, and that will take time and resources. Isn't the help and education worth a little more?

Quote:

Take for example a blind person with a friendly Golden retriever as a seeing eye dog, and he hands over his wallet to a cashier and has to hope they are honest and give him the right change. Do you think the outcome is different for a Doberman seeing eye dog?

Are you kidding me? The dog that is highly trained as a seeing eye or assistance dog is supposed to "know" someone is ripping you off? Okay, this has got to be number one of the list of the stupidest things I have ever heard. Anyone with the least bit of common sense or the tiniest bit of dog knowledge has got to realize this is 100% bull***t! Gee, we used Dobes at CCI as assistance dogs many years ago and they did transactions without ever knowing the difference.

From the FD website:

Quote:

We have several upcoming litters of Champion bred Doberman puppies.

Note the several!

And I won't even go into his training and titling, but get someone who knows how to train for sport or PP and have them go over his you tube videos with you. It's no wonder he is still trying to title his bitch. But then , isn't that always the excuse? "In preparation for SchH I, ZTP, title whatever. Of course, it's hard to title a bitch when she is always pregnant! LMAO!

izzy's girl · 08-25-2008, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedFawnRising

I've never liked seeing someone falsely accused.

Why is it, when folks state a negative opinion about someone's breeding program, and give reasons for their negative opinion--that's a "false accusation."

Why then should not your positive opinion also be a falsehood?

Seriously, I am glad to hear not all experiences there are bad. You seem satisfied. Thanks for sharing--intelligent consumers will form their own opinions based on verifiable facts such as health testing, pedigrees, conformation evaluation, etc.

No need to sling "false accusations" about matters of opinion.

Okay, so I'm still up watching the closing ceremonies. I'm a sucker for the Olympics. As far as the "false accusation" part of it I was referring to "five litters on the ground at one time," because that was not true. Aside from that, yes, we are all entitled to our opinions and thank you for sharing. It is discussions like this that helped me to ask the right questions, see the documentation, and get honest answers when looking for another dobe. What happened with my first was heart breaking and am really not wanting a repeat performance. It is devastating to have a member of your family (what I consider my pets to be) die in your arms as you are rushing her to the hospital. I think it is this type of forum that keeps people honest and always striving to be better at what they do. So thank you