familydobes.com - Page 12

Murreydobe · 08-26-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda H

"Unique combination: two show dogs with IPO-3!! Himserh Katana Ko x Delux de Grande Vinko. Both dogs are cardio-free and OFA-Good!!!!"

She is just saying the breeding pair is cardio free at the time of the breeding. There is nothing wrong with that statement.

I think it's a bit misleading. The dogs were cleared of any cardiac disorders AT THE TIME they were tested..and advertising SHOULD list when that testing occurred. Something like: "echo normal 8/08" or "0 vpc's per holter 8/08" would be far more appropriate and accurate.

If you really want to be literal about it, the phrase "cardio free" indicates the dog has no heart whatsoever.

It's a nonsense phrase.

Linda H · 08-26-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murreydobe

I think it's a bit misleading. The dogs were cleared of any cardiac disorders AT THE TIME they were tested..and advertising SHOULD list when that testing occurred. Something like: "echo normal 8/08" or "0 vpc's per holter 8/08" would be far more appropriate and accurate.

If you really want to be literal about it, the phrase "cardio free" indicates the dog has no heart whatsoever.

It's a nonsense phrase.

Good point. I was assuming they were tested right before breeding, how silly of me.

**Navistardobe** · 08-26-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robinb

Question for Familydobes. I was just reading your site and came across this, Doberman puppies European Doberman puppies here you state: "these pups will be very high drive, cardio free,"

How can you state that any litter will be cardio free? There is no dna test for DCM. Holters and Echo's only tell you the current status of the dog, NOT if they will develop the disease or pass it on.

In addition, I have some other questions concerning statements made on your website.
"The AKC in the US has a standard, but it produces a very different type of dog than the European Doberman puppies. It is also voluntary to adhere to."

This statement leaves me scratching my head. Can you explain? Why would you not want to adhere to the AKC standard? Your implication is that the FCI Standard is superior…why? And it could be argued that both are voluntary to adhere to. Standards don’t produce dogs, breeders produce dogs.

“Here in the US any two people with Dobermans can get together and have pups and no one seems bothered by it”
This also happens in Europe as well as the U.S. You even make mention elsewhere on your website that indiscriminate breeding also takes place in Europe.

“I believe the correct Doberman is bred to the international standard where character and temperament are still tested first, then performance ability, then if they pass all of that and a conformation evaluation, they are given a breeding license.”

If you believe this why do you breed untitled, untested dogs?

“If you want real working dogs, with solid temperament and great conformation, this is the breeding you are looking for. This is a line breeding on Eko Royal Bell and these pups will be very high drive, cardio free large boned dogs.”

Those who are looking for so called “real working dogs” go to the working lines, they tend not to look at the European show lines. They want generation after generation of SchH3/IPO3s, Angek, ZTPs. As mentioned above, it is very interesting that you can claim that these puppies will be cardio free! And their pedigree is not free from DCM.

**Jennifer01** · 08-26-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedFawnRising

Just throwing this in, in the midst of all the soap opera mudslinging--to clarify, I never posted that it was required by ADA--it is a legal requirement in my state.

And yes, you are right, federal does override, but it is neither productive nor professional, imo, to fight over stuff like that, as you also pointed out.

Recognition and cooperation are key to a good experience in access--and the police around here respond much better with aid and support if your dog is in accordance with state law and easily identifiable visually as a working animal.

Carry on, CMax and Familydobe--although I submit both of you are making yourselves look bad in a far worse way than you are trying to do to the other.

I'm not surprised that some states may require identifying harnesses for the service dog.

Regarding what law will trump (state vs federal), I don't believe that the focus is on what law is more restrictive. I think the real issue is whether the state law conflicts with the federal.

Yes, the ADA does not have a requirement regarding a service animal wearing an identifying harness, but it does not preclude states from requiring service dogs to have identifying harnesses. In that kind of situation, I believe the courts would not see it as a conflict because both laws can be complied with at the same time.

CMax · 08-26-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murreydobe

I think it's a bit misleading. The dogs were cleared of any cardiac disorders AT THE TIME they were tested..and advertising SHOULD list when that testing occurred. Something like: "echo normal 8/08" or "0 vpc's per holter 8/08" would be far more appropriate and accurate.

If you really want to be literal about it, the phrase "cardio free" indicates the dog has no heart whatsoever.

It's a nonsense phrase.

They were both tested in August 2008. And I write it the way I am used to. I am from Europe.

robinb · 08-26-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobes4me

This is interesting, I also found on CMax's site that she states her dogs are cardio-free (PupForSale) so perhaps CMax can answer the same question.

The only thing that a person can truthfully state re our current cardio testing (holters/echos) is the date of the testing and the results. Trying to imply that they are cardio free or like familydobes implied that the litter is cardio free is misleading to novices to the breed, imho. There is no such thing as a cardio free doberman until we have the test to prove it one way or the other. At this point in time that test does not exist.

jdd · 08-26-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda H

"Unique combination: two show dogs with IPO-3!! Himserh Katana Ko x Delux de Grande Vinko. Both dogs are cardio-free and OFA-Good!!!!"

She is just saying the breeding pair is cardio free at the time of the breeding. There is nothing wrong with that statement. That is a lot different then saying your puppies "are going" to be cardio free.

Actually it says "and these pups will be very high drive, cardio free large boned dogs"

robinb · 08-26-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murreydobe

I think it's a bit misleading. The dogs were cleared of any cardiac disorders AT THE TIME they were tested..and advertising SHOULD list when that testing occurred. Something like: "echo normal 8/08" or "0 vpc's per holter 8/08" would be far more appropriate and accurate.

If you really want to be literal about it, the phrase "cardio free" indicates the dog has no heart whatsoever.

It's a nonsense phrase.

Exactly!

Murreydobe · 08-26-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMax

They were both tested in August 2008. And I write it the way I am used to. I am from Europe.

Whether you're in Europe or not, the phrase is misleading. That may or may not be delibarate.

DobeMom616 · 08-26-2008, 05:43 PM

This thread is going no where but down.