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Old 05-12-2008, 05:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What are you looking for in a Dobe? Please list as much information as possible.

It might be helpful for you to list what YOU think of them and turn this into a learning exercise rather than just listing kennels and saying any good. For instance, I was drawn to ask questions about this website b/c of "x".
Or I like this about their dogs and list what you like, or this concerns me about their dogs and list as much as you can.

It will help you learn about red flags on Internet websites. Remember, many good breeders don't have a website. Keep that in mind too, and it is really buyer beware on the www! I am glad you are here and learning and asking questions.

These guides might help you.
Backyard Breeder vs Reputable Breeder
Buying A Doberman Pinscher Guideline - DPCA Breeders Education
Spend a lot of time here
Article Menu - DPCA Breeders Education, Doberman Pinscher Club of America, Dobermans, Clubs, America, USA
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Old 05-12-2008, 08:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Any good?
Nope. Quite dreadful actually.
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Old 05-12-2008, 09:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Nope. Quite dreadful actually.
I know nothing of this breeder and didn't even look them up But Julie made me giggle by her statement LOL

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Old 05-12-2008, 11:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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When i look at the site...im not sure whether i am looking at a good breeder or not... her dogs look well cared for...im not an expert at the breed standard so i cant comment on if are quality dogs.
They give an 8 year health guarantee and list every single thing it covers.
The only thing that bugs me about it was under the guarantee, it said it would only take back a dog that has been to puppy and obedience class, is cropped, and unaltered. I also find it odd that if you dont keep your dog on Nu Vet your health guarantee goes down to 4 years
What does everyone think?
i would like to know if they are any good too.

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Old 05-13-2008, 04:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
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When i look at the site...im not sure whether i am looking at a good breeder or not... her dogs look well cared for...im not an expert at the breed standard so i cant comment on if are quality dogs.
They give an 8 year health guarantee and list every single thing it covers.
The only thing that bugs me about it was under the guarantee, it said it would only take back a dog that has been to puppy and obedience class, is cropped, and unaltered. I also find it odd that if you dont keep your dog on Nu Vet your health guarantee goes down to 4 years
What does everyone think?
i would like to know if they are any good too.
Now why would you think they would want an unalterred dog.....hmmmm......NO ONE can give an honest 8 year health guarantee. Come on now! Sure you can do the testing and try to do everything possbile to make sure they live a long happy life, but 8 years? they probably get a kick back from Nu Vet for one thing. I can see a guaranttee on hips being OK, eyes, heart, etc...but 8 years. Probably won't take them back after that because they are too old for their breeding program!!!
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Old 05-13-2008, 08:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I couldn't believe the 8 year guarantee either, too many conditions. Their dogs are nothing spectacular to look at, they breed in house (expecting 2 litters from the same dog within a month, and more planned) and they accept paypal. Not a place I would consider.
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:35 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Breeders who use nuvet recieve free product from nu vet based on the sales under their referal number. Dog Breed, Cat Breeders, Puppies For Sale to get the details you would have to email them or get it from a breeder who uses it. Your purchasing it provides free product for their kennel. In a lifetime of keeping your dog on it you have in a round about way paid the breeder more for the dog. Like selling you a car then selling you the gas from their station.

Lestat was on nuvet but had problems with dribbling. The vet suggested taking him off of it as did the breeder who said she had a previous pup who also had a problem with it (can't rem the exact issue would have to find that email and re read it). I did and the issue resolved. I still do not know what ingredient was a problem or if it was a coincidence all I know is within days of stopping it I no longer had dribble trails on all the floors. It was pretty obvious on the hardwood.

I found nupro when I had ferrets, it was highly recommended by other ferret owners. I also used it with my shepherd Dog Vitamin Supplements Dog Vitamins Arthritis Dogs Treatments

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Old 05-13-2008, 11:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Thx ALL!! Im all set with them!!
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Thx ALL!! Im all set with them!!
I don't understand why you would want people's opinions about them then if what they say doesn't make any difference. ?????
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I don't understand why you would want people's opinions about them then if what they say doesn't make any difference. ?????
I was a little confused too, glad im not the only one.
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Maybe that meant she is not going with them?? I dunno
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm not very good at distinguishing between good breeders and bad, at least not more so than most of the people on this forum but here are some things that irk me:

-They say "doberman's." I hate bad grammar. Actually, they just have bad grammar all over the place.
-The bitch they bred Logan to (Shalimar's Shining Jennifer) seems to just be an average dog, no titles or anything? There seems to be no titles until at least a few generations back? (Correct me if I'm wrong, as I know very little about pedigrees)
-I also didn't like the crops on some of their dogs. Actually, most of their dogs.

Finally, can anyone clarify for me what this statement means in their guarantee?
"Hip dysphasia (must be OFA'd or Penn Hip checked before breeding)"
Ignoring the fact that it says dysphasia, are they talking about their own dogs are checked or the purchaser's dogs?

I also don't see anything about them testing their dogs for DCM with an ECG or a holter? Or maybe they just don't put that information on their website?

I dunno, seems fishy.

If I'm wrong about any of the above, feel free to correct me. Like I said, I'm no big shot Doberman expert, haha.

-JB.
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Old 05-14-2008, 03:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Thx ALL!! Im all set with them!!
What???? I am confused too! Why ask opinions, see that nobody is recommending them, then go with them anyway??? Whatever...........

Unless, I am totally mis-interpreting what the poster said.........

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Old 05-14-2008, 05:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I don't understand why you would want people's opinions about them then if what they say doesn't make any difference. ?????


HUH? Is that what you took from that?

I read all the advice and made my choice.
Thx again folks, I trully appreciate it.

My puppy is coming in July. Not from Dream kennel either!
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:42 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thank you for clearing this up, I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one confused about what you had said. When you said "Thanks, I'm all set" it sounded like you wanted the advice but then were saying you were getting the puppy anyway.

Have fun with your Dobe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberman Squad View Post
HUH? Is that what you took from that?

I read all the advice and made my choice.
Thx again folks, I trully appreciate it.

My puppy is coming in July. Not from Dream kennel either!
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Oh and where did you decide to get a dobe from?
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:48 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I agree Carol! 8yrs! wow with cardio out there Hummmmmmm??? makes you really think huh?
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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HUH? Is that what you took from that?

I read all the advice and made my choice.
Thx again folks, I trully appreciate it.

My puppy is coming in July. Not from Dream kennel either!
Yes, that's what I (and others) got from what you posted. I'm sorry for misunderstanding you and wish you luck with your new puppy.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:42 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I resucitated this thread since I've been looking at one of their litters that are now 6 weeks old. Any more news or comments since then ? Has anybody here bought a puppy from them in the last 3 years...?
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:01 AM   #21 (permalink)
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obviously they are not recomended... do NOT buy from them.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:04 AM   #22 (permalink)
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obviously they are not recomended... do NOT buy from them.
It's been 3-4 years since this thread started. Why do you say that ? I'd like to know the reasons why since it's hard to rule out somebody by an arbitrary yes or no. It'll help me to know why not, has anyone here bought a puppy from them and what was the experience ?
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:26 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dreamsongs View Post
It's been 3-4 years since this thread started. Why do you say that ? I'd like to know the reasons why since it's hard to rule out somebody by an arbitrary yes or no. It'll help me to know why not, has anyone here bought a puppy from them and what was the experience ?
Did you see all of the negative comments about this "breeder" in the Happy Dobermans thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incredibledobe View Post
I took the time to look at and read most of the Dreamscape website.

They buy their titles from IABCA. This organization only issues championships for a cost. I do not consider these earned titles at all. If their dogs are so worthy, then why are they not showing in the other venues? Even UDC since the vast majority are Euros.

The majority of the pedigrees listed, meaning except 2 that I am not familiar with, are full of cardio right up close, as in the 1st and 2nd generations. Grant di Villa Conte was a cardio death for example. So if you are taking a gamble on health anyway, this one really has the odds stacked against you.

The health guarantee is full of holes. While 8 years may seem great, really read it and take it apart. The worse thing about this guarantee in my opinion is the same old thing all of the BYB's do, make you return a do you have fallen in love with and then you get a replacement puppy. How many people are going to give up a dog they have already loved for 1, 2, or more years? You likely will not. That is what they are counting on.

I would want to see health testing they have done on THEIR dogs. Meaning not just what came with the dogs they imported. To maintain a breeding program, tests have to be kept updated and new dogs tested before they are bred.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmit View Post
WHOA, what is wrong with this picture?????

That doesn't look right at all....
Dreamscape Kennel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incredibledobe View Post
Btw, according to the databases I can find, Wiking was only ever a youth champion. There are no records of him achieving a full adult championship let alone even one int ch. I think this is yet another case of kimbertal exagerating titles as they have been known to do in the past. The byb's just shout these for all they are worth without ever bothering to check.
Also, look at this dog from dreamscape:


and compare it to the Doberman standard (all illustrated images are thanks to the DPCA).



Function follows form and structure. Even an untrained eye can see that the dreamscape dog looks very, very... odd to say the least. That poor dog from will likely have (if it doesn't already) loads of issues performing the simplest actions(such as getting up off of the ground, running around after a ball for more than a minute or two). I, personally, wouldn't want a dog that couldn't even play fetch or trot around the yard comfortably due to such terrible breeding practices perpetuated by a kennel that simply doesn't care what kind of dog they produce or what damage they do to the breed.

They do not list the results of health test performed on THEIR dogs anywhere. They buy dogs from other folks, brag about their supposed accomplishments and titles (which, as IncredibleDobes said, there are no factual records of these alleged accomplishments), and continue to exploit their dogs in order to line their pockets.

Are you interested in a cropped puppy? Hardly any BYBs will send a puppy home already cropped, or if they do, they'll add another $500+ to their listed prices. You'll be looking at a puppy that costs you anywhere from $1000-1500 from a breeder that is just throwing their dogs together any time one is in season. They put forth zero thought in considering the outcomes, they provide no support once the puppies have gone to their no families, and they often can't answer even the simplest questions regarding the breed.

For $1500-2000, you can get a very well bred puppy that actually has the odds in its favor. It will come from health tested and titled parents, from a breeder that will be able to provide support for the lifetime of the animal, and it will not put money in the hands of the same people filling the shelters with unwanted animals time and time again.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:36 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Dreamscape


While she does apparently do some health testing on some dogs. I would certainly check to see if she is doing ALL the health testing on ALL the dogs. For instance: Cardio DNA is NOT enough, needs to be doing holters and echos annually.

She shows her dogs at International shows. Pretty much any Dobe that is obviously a Dobe can get an Int. CH. It really isn't anything to brag about, but is often used by sub-par breeders to impress buyers that don't know any better.

I have seen a couple of her dogs in person and they are of rather poor quality. You can see this even in the photos. Look at the picture of Rita for instance -- and she BRED her!

Charges extra for ear cropping -- I have no issue what-so-ever with breeders that allow people to have a pet puppy uncropped and maybe even charge a bit less for that puppy. However, ear cropping should be included in the price of the puppy and handled by the breeder.

The limitations to her guarantee are ridiculous.

All it takes is more money to get full registration/breeding rights. This shows no regard for the breed in general.

I am told that she is a nice lady and great to deal with. I am certain this is true, but have never met her myself. Being a nice person is one thing, being a knowledgeable and ethical breeder is another. There are a lot of really nice people doing things way wrong.

If you are looking for a puppy in that area there are a number of good breeders within 1 to 2 hours from Dreamscape.

You can do much better.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:41 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Google these names followed by "dobermans";

Windsong
Gorrmae
Shadeko
Lyndobe
Kaywood
Briarwood
Protocol
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