Indiana Noon Shine - Page 3 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums

dobermomma · 05-11-2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobebug

I test my dogs for vWD status too--and I don't even breed them so breeders that seem to test only for vWD are a red flag for me.

While that's good and doesn't produce any more affected dogs (only carriers) I don't thing that statement has any merit really when you consider the rest of what you are saying.

I can think of a whole bunch of reasons that no breeder should have 7 or 8 litters a year even if they have 13 dogs. Starting with the fact that there really aren't enough GOOD homes for dogs period, much less Dobermans. There are a ton of Dobes in rescue who all got there by being excess baggage for someone--uncontrollable young males who someone never trained. Oldsters whose owners died. Dogs whose owners separated and even, sadly, dogs who no longer matched the decor.

I think it's common knowlege that Repo Man was vWD affected. Actually I had less of problem with RP being bred because he was not a very good example of a Doberman than I had with him being vWD affected. And it was sad that he died young but one of the problems with breeding dogs young is that you find that you've bred to a dog with a genetic problem. In the case of RP it probably wouldn't have made any difference but behind him it is now clear that liver problems are showing up in a good many of the SA dogs. He was the prime example of a big winner who had a ton of flaws as a Doberman--but I don't see exactly what that has to do with the breeder you are defending. I don't defend Mary Rodgers when it comes to health testing--I know she doesn't do enough.

I'm not paranoid about this breeder. I have nothing to be paranoid about. I don't breed. I do show. I get my dogs from breeders who I think are breeding for the better dog not for another litter. My dogs are champions--I work full time and always have. My dogs are inside dogs--I don't really think Dobes do well as outside dogs or as kennel dogs. I've known people who were around when Dobes were imported and often kept as kennel dogs and had a REALLY bad reputation--even worse than they do now. Several of these old timers told me essentially the same thing; that they did not believe that it's so much that Dobe temperament has improved (if you think that a mellower dog is an improvement) over the years as that very few Dobes now are bred and live as kennel dogs. They've said that they were intended to be family dogs, personal dogs and do best that way.

I don't think I'd care to come back as someones kennel dog even if the kennels were climate controlled.

I believe everyone should just STOP trashing the Dobieden. Doesn't Puddles have a life to live that she has to keep trashing the Dobieden all over the web and all over this list? Leave it alone and get on with something more intelligent.

**Incredibledobe** · 05-11-2008, 10:02 PM

We're not trashing anyone, we are all trying to explain to you - "dobie Den", Lisa Harraden or whoever you are, and people who read this thread looking for a REPUTABLE breeder, why what you are doing is harmful to this breed that we all care deeply about and how you are misguiding an unsuspecting puppy buyer with your lack of knowlege. It is these types of breeding practices that really hurt the breed and keep perpetuating the health & temperament problems already in existence. I will guarantee you that a kennel raised dobe will not have the same temperament as one raised lovingly in a home as they should be.
Instead of getting defensive, why don't you open up your mind and take some education from what you are reading here? That is, if you really care more about these dogs than just making a profit from them. If you do, you will be open to changing what you are doing and not making your Dobes solely a money making venture for you.
There are those of us here who breed and those that don't. Even the ones who don't are often putting more into their Dobes in the way of titling, testing, and affection than you are currently doing as a so-called breeder.

~Lorna

dobeguy · 05-11-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobermomma

picture posted of Scout is the dog they RESCUED from the buyer after 7 weeks that they had it outside on a chain.

And who's fault is that? Here is a wild thought, maybe if this breeder doesn't have 7+ litters a year she could better screen potential homes. It is the breeders responsibility to makes sure ALL their puppies find loving homes. Like Dobebug said that will be difficult to do when placing 70+ puppies per year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobermomma

Dobermans do not HAVE to be indoor dogs

This statement just saddens me. Even a novice such as myself, realizes Dobermans are bred to be personal protectors. How the hell can a Doberman fulfill its intended goal by being kept in a kennel or tied out in the backyard? Furthermore, Dobes need attention and affection from their human caregivers to develop properly, without this they can develop unfortunate temperament problems.

**Lexus** · 05-12-2008, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobermomma

I believe everyone should just STOP trashing the Dobieden. Doesn't Puddles have a life to live that she has to keep trashing the Dobieden all over the web and all over this list? Leave it alone and get on with something more intelligent.

Since you have nothing to say for yourself on any of the health concerns that have been raised about your continuous breedings... I'll just address your questions. Honestly, you advertise online, it's public venue. It's out there for everyone to see. And this is a public forum. We discuss things related to dobermans. That's what we are here for. And, just speaking for myself, I find it highly intelligent to educate future doberman owners about the "right and wrong" breeders out there so they can save themselves some heartache down the road.

I'd recommend maybe spending some time here visiting different areas of the forum and learning a thing or two about responsible breeding and ownership. It's never too late to do the right thing by your dogs.

**Lexxsmom** · 05-12-2008, 09:34 AM

I don't have much to add here but I have to say that the statement

"dobermans do not HAVE to be indoor dogs" is disgusting. If you don't have time to take care of 13 dogs, or however many you have, newsflash, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE THAT MANY DOGS.

My dog is more health tested than those and I have NO intention of ever breeding.

terrible

ripper.qc · 05-12-2008, 11:03 PM

please explain this one to me ... how is that possible to ha a dog that is not even a yaer old with sch3 and ipo3 titles ..... red flag right there

Nike
SchH-III, IPO-III
Black/Rust Born: 06/24/07

bdav31 · 12-29-2008, 10:17 AM

I would like to say that I have purchased a doberman from the millers. My opinion is that they have a first class operation. Everything was very clean and the dogs seemed to be very happy and well taken care of. I have seen a horrible puppy mill first hand - - nothing at the millers reminded me of such a place. My dob looks great, has no health problems, came with pedigree papers, is akc.... I am not claiming to be an expert on dog breeding/breeders - - me and my wife were looking for a pet that came from a good breeder with a good bloodline and I am confident that this is what we found!

Linda H · 12-29-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdav31

I would like to say that I have purchased a doberman from the millers. My opinion is that they have a first class operation. Everything was very clean and the dogs seemed to be very happy and well taken care of. I have seen a horrible puppy mill first hand - - nothing at the millers reminded me of such a place. My dob looks great, has no health problems, came with pedigree papers, is akc.... I am not claiming to be an expert on dog breeding/breeders - - me and my wife were looking for a pet that came from a good breeder with a good bloodline and I am confident that this is what we found!

Your pup is too young to know whether he has any health problems or not.
Check this site out to see what there is to worry about.
Genetic Diseases*in Dobermans

Sorry, I forgot to welcome you to the forum. Welcome and hope you stay, read, enjoy and learn all you can about dobermans. We would like pictures of your Ollie. He is welcome too.

bdav31 · 12-29-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda H

Your pup is too young to know whether he has any health problems or not.
Check this site out to see what there is to worry about.
Genetic Diseases*in Dobermans

Sorry, I forgot to welcome you to the forum. Welcome and hope you stay, read, enjoy and learn all you can about dobermans. We would like pictures of your Ollie. He is welcome too.

Thank you Linda - - I am still learning -- thats why I am here! I will post up some pics soon.

Navistardobe · 12-29-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdav31

I would like to say that I have purchased a doberman from the millers. My opinion is that they have a first class operation. Everything was very clean and the dogs seemed to be very happy and well taken care of. I have seen a horrible puppy mill first hand - - nothing at the millers reminded me of such a place. My dob looks great, has no health problems, came with pedigree papers, is akc.... I am not claiming to be an expert on dog breeding/breeders - - me and my wife were looking for a pet that came from a good breeder with a good bloodline and I am confident that this is what we found!

It takes much more than clean conditions and happy dogs to be considered a reputable breeder. These are minimum standards of care that shouldn't need to be advertised; they are expected. Reputable breeders know the pedigrees of their dogs inside and out. They know the strengths AND weaknesses, they know the longevity of the dogs in the pedigree. They carefully assess the health and temperament of these dogs. Is there a pattern of health problems? Such as a few generations of cervical vertabrae instability (CVI) or dilated cardiomyopathy, if so, reputable breeders will change their breeding by either removing these dogs from the gene pool or if possible, breed away from these problems. They also breed structurally sound dogs who are within the breed standard. So they aren't intentionally breeding oversized dogs as the Doberman is a medium sized dog. This is only a brief summary of how responsible breeders operate, it is far more complicated than throwing two dogs together with the only goal of producing puppies, puppies who, in many cases, purpose is to produce income.