dobeguy

Maybe you should learn a little about Dobermans before you say that. Dobermans are indoor dogs that need to be physically close to the family, not raised in an outdoor kennel.

They do no health testing, claim their dogs have an excellent confirmation, which from the pictures is obvious they don't, import their males from the puppy mill known as Kimbertal. Give me f'ing break, if there dogs actually had great confirmation then why not show them? If they work full time why not hire a handler to get them there Ch.? Let me guess because it will cut into their profit margins right? If there so busy with work, then how do they expect to take care of all the dogs they have? Nothing disgust me more then people who try to make a living off the backs of their animals. Have some morals and get a real job.

I too would love to see you come back as a puppy mill doberman, spend your entire life in a kennel being forced to procreate and never experience any love and care, and then one day discarded like garbage.

I find it funny that your previous posts were used to defend this same breeder?

What do you think about this site?

Why do you only show up when this mill is being discussed? Why don't you fess up to who you really are, and not pretend to play this not so clever game?

__________________
""Life itself is only a vision. A dream. Nothing exists, save an empty space and you. And you are but a thought."

puddles

The pup with the torn up neck is a pup born and raised at Harradens Dobieden. Lisa Harraden tries to say she saved that pup but that is not true. He is off the breeding of her dogs Sadie rose and Moose and was born in JAN. of 08.

Incredibledobe

Since Dobermomma is here, I just had to respond to this statement she made in another thread referring to health testing...

of all the breeders I've asked, only the "show" breeders SAY they check for all these things.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. You really think health testing is just for show dogs? You really think that statement, that bit of "research" you did justifes YOUR actions??? This statement lends even more credence to the fact THAT YOU SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING!!!! Health testing is for THE GOOD OF THE BREED AS A WHOLE!!!

DOBERMANS ARE NOT KENNEL DOGS!!! Do your research! the dobe was created as a companion/protection dog. They NEED to be with you! No Dobe in a kennel is a happy or healthy dobe and I don't care how clean, temp controlled, or whatever that kennel is. A kennel is a kennel is a kennel! DOBES ARE NOT KENNEL DOGS!

~Lorna

Lexus

All I can say..

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."- Martin Luther King Jr

Seemed to kind of sum everything up IMO

Lexus

I do have to say in addition as a warning-- Doberman Talk will NOT be the battlegrounds for personal debates. From time to time, it is just going to happen, it is just the nature of people, but it can not continue or all people causing the disturbance will be displined or banned. It is a fine line, between stating facts and awareness that needs raised regarding questionable (at best) breeding habits, and WW3. Please keep this in mind. This is the last warning that will be issued on this subject before action is taken.

I encourage all newer members, dobermomma (dobieden of course) and puddles to explore other parts of the forum and interact in other discussions as the rest of our regular functioning members do. Reminder to the newer membership - Doberman Talk Forums - Announcements in Forum : Site News

Some healthy discussion and debate only serves as educational material for current and future Doberman Talk membership, just keep it civil and rational. As long as it stays constructive and clean, this thread will remain open.

Thanks!

Lexus

"and Puddles bought a dog from us and raved about it. Her name is Linda Neville and her letters of praise are posted at Satisfied Customers her dog got sick in HER care but her vet raved about what a wonderful dog it was for 3 months after she bought it. Gee, wonder who the abuser is now, LINDA!!!!!!"

Seriously, can we quit with the third person??

If you want to have a serious discussion about this... if you are so busy, why are you having so many litters a year???? And why are hips/elbows/cardio (etc) testing not important to you? Did you know that DCM is one of the biggest killers of dobermans? How many people lose their beloved pets to DCM? Why is that not important to test for?

You want to be taken seriously as a "good" breeder, so lets have a mature discussion so we can understand your stance on chosing not to health test, when you claim so much money is going out on the birds, why are the dogs losing out, and the future owners of untested puppies while we are at it.

Luvbirds

This *IS* the life that every Doberman on the face of the earth deserves. I can't imagine having my precious boy live in a kennel full time.

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JavasMom

Not to pour more gasoline on the fire, and I am speaking as an owner having NO experience in conformation. After seeing the Miller's home page and reading thru their Doberman info, my second red flag was the use of Dobes from Bosnia. Yugoslavia was a war zone during the 90s, remember? I wouldn't import any dog from that part of the world without seeing the operation first hand to ensure that the bloodlines are as pure as the breeder is claiming.

Have to second Luvbird's sentiments: Java is too much of a diva to be kennelled. Shivers if the indoor temp drops below 68 inside the house in winter. Her idea of 'roughing it' is being 'forced' to use her floor pillow to flake out on instead of my bed.....

dobebug

I test my dogs for vWD status too--and I don't even breed them so breeders that seem to test only for vWD are a red flag for me.

While that's good and doesn't produce any more affected dogs (only carriers) I don't thing that statement has any merit really when you consider the rest of what you are saying.

I can think of a whole bunch of reasons that no breeder should have 7 or 8 litters a year even if they have 13 dogs. Starting with the fact that there really aren't enough GOOD homes for dogs period, much less Dobermans. There are a ton of Dobes in rescue who all got there by being excess baggage for someone--uncontrollable young males who someone never trained. Oldsters whose owners died. Dogs whose owners separated and even, sadly, dogs who no longer matched the decor.

I think it's common knowlege that Repo Man was vWD affected. Actually I had less of problem with RP being bred because he was not a very good example of a Doberman than I had with him being vWD affected. And it was sad that he died young but one of the problems with breeding dogs young is that you find that you've bred to a dog with a genetic problem. In the case of RP it probably wouldn't have made any difference but behind him it is now clear that liver problems are showing up in a good many of the SA dogs. He was the prime example of a big winner who had a ton of flaws as a Doberman--but I don't see exactly what that has to do with the breeder you are defending. I don't defend Mary Rodgers when it comes to health testing--I know she doesn't do enough.

I'm not paranoid about this breeder. I have nothing to be paranoid about. I don't breed. I do show. I get my dogs from breeders who I think are breeding for the better dog not for another litter. My dogs are champions--I work full time and always have. My dogs are inside dogs--I don't really think Dobes do well as outside dogs or as kennel dogs. I've known people who were around when Dobes were imported and often kept as kennel dogs and had a REALLY bad reputation--even worse than they do now. Several of these old timers told me essentially the same thing; that they did not believe that it's so much that Dobe temperament has improved (if you think that a mellower dog is an improvement) over the years as that very few Dobes now are bred and live as kennel dogs. They've said that they were intended to be family dogs, personal dogs and do best that way.

I don't think I'd care to come back as someones kennel dog even if the kennels were climate controlled.

dobermomma

because this thread just popped up on her slanderous site at freewebs.com. They do NOT import their dogs from Kimbertal, and the picture posted of Scout is the dog they RESCUED from the buyer after 7 weeks that they had it outside on a chain. Dobermans do not HAVE to be indoor dogs.