Indiana Noon Shine - Page 2 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums

ripper.qc · 05-12-2008, 11:03 PM

please explain this one to me ... how is that possible to ha a dog that is not even a yaer old with sch3 and ipo3 titles ..... red flag right there

Nike
SchH-III, IPO-III
Black/Rust Born: 06/24/07

bdav31 · 12-29-2008, 10:17 AM

I would like to say that I have purchased a doberman from the millers. My opinion is that they have a first class operation. Everything was very clean and the dogs seemed to be very happy and well taken care of. I have seen a horrible puppy mill first hand - - nothing at the millers reminded me of such a place. My dob looks great, has no health problems, came with pedigree papers, is akc.... I am not claiming to be an expert on dog breeding/breeders - - me and my wife were looking for a pet that came from a good breeder with a good bloodline and I am confident that this is what we found!

Linda H · 12-29-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdav31

I would like to say that I have purchased a doberman from the millers. My opinion is that they have a first class operation. Everything was very clean and the dogs seemed to be very happy and well taken care of. I have seen a horrible puppy mill first hand - - nothing at the millers reminded me of such a place. My dob looks great, has no health problems, came with pedigree papers, is akc.... I am not claiming to be an expert on dog breeding/breeders - - me and my wife were looking for a pet that came from a good breeder with a good bloodline and I am confident that this is what we found!

Your pup is too young to know whether he has any health problems or not.
Check this site out to see what there is to worry about.
Genetic Diseases*in Dobermans

Sorry, I forgot to welcome you to the forum. Welcome and hope you stay, read, enjoy and learn all you can about dobermans. We would like pictures of your Ollie. He is welcome too.

bdav31 · 12-29-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda H

Your pup is too young to know whether he has any health problems or not.
Check this site out to see what there is to worry about.
Genetic Diseases*in Dobermans

Sorry, I forgot to welcome you to the forum. Welcome and hope you stay, read, enjoy and learn all you can about dobermans. We would like pictures of your Ollie. He is welcome too.

Thank you Linda - - I am still learning -- thats why I am here! I will post up some pics soon.

Navistardobe · 12-29-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdav31

I would like to say that I have purchased a doberman from the millers. My opinion is that they have a first class operation. Everything was very clean and the dogs seemed to be very happy and well taken care of. I have seen a horrible puppy mill first hand - - nothing at the millers reminded me of such a place. My dob looks great, has no health problems, came with pedigree papers, is akc.... I am not claiming to be an expert on dog breeding/breeders - - me and my wife were looking for a pet that came from a good breeder with a good bloodline and I am confident that this is what we found!

It takes much more than clean conditions and happy dogs to be considered a reputable breeder. These are minimum standards of care that shouldn't need to be advertised; they are expected. Reputable breeders know the pedigrees of their dogs inside and out. They know the strengths AND weaknesses, they know the longevity of the dogs in the pedigree. They carefully assess the health and temperament of these dogs. Is there a pattern of health problems? Such as a few generations of cervical vertabrae instability (CVI) or dilated cardiomyopathy, if so, reputable breeders will change their breeding by either removing these dogs from the gene pool or if possible, breed away from these problems. They also breed structurally sound dogs who are within the breed standard. So they aren't intentionally breeding oversized dogs as the Doberman is a medium sized dog. This is only a brief summary of how responsible breeders operate, it is far more complicated than throwing two dogs together with the only goal of producing puppies, puppies who, in many cases, purpose is to produce income.

**RedFawnRising** · 12-29-2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdav31

I would like to say that I have purchased a doberman from the millers. My opinion is that they have a first class operation. Everything was very clean and the dogs seemed to be very happy and well taken care of. I have seen a horrible puppy mill first hand - - nothing at the millers reminded me of such a place. My dob looks great, has no health problems, came with pedigree papers, is akc.... I am not claiming to be an expert on dog breeding/breeders - - me and my wife were looking for a pet that came from a good breeder with a good bloodline and I am confident that this is what we found!

Welcome to the forum!

Hopefully you will stick around and read up, become very expert on this breed, and when you get your new pup raised and trained adequately, you'll be ready to welcome a playmate for him/her.

Please consider going to a reputable rescue at that time and adopting a companion--so many out there need homes, from all the folks just breeding for more Dobermans.

**doberkris** · 12-29-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reds

"Welcome to the home of The Millers"

What a perfect last name for them!!!

GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

That was not lost on me either....very sad indeed

jdd · 12-29-2008, 02:02 PM

They have a write up about Doberman talk on their home page

**RedFawnRising** · 12-29-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdd

They have a write up about Doberman talk on their home page

Yeah, I saw that, too.

I mean, their dogs have, sorry, hideous conformation, are clearly not of a quality to be bred, they think it's a GOOD thing to have Kimbertal lines--indeed, they use emotional appeals and do not use facts at all to refute what they call "slander," and are unprofessional enough to gripe about an internet forum on their very own home page.
Which mention of this site probably actually refers folks to DT, not real bright of them.

Sadly, as I saw mentioned by some other posters here, the glowing talk on their site WILL rope in the uninformed.

I just hope it turns out well for the buyer and the puppy and there are no serious problems as a result of all this.

**velmadobe** · 12-29-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdd

They have a write up about Doberman talk on their home page

Ha Ha - just went and looked - how funny is that? I'm sure that if they were not concerned about what was said here, then they would just ignore it. Nice to know that we have some of the BYBers out there worried enough for them to mention this forum

jonner · 01-19-2009, 01:31 PM

I purchased my dobe from indiana noon shine. It is far from a puppy mill. The millers are in there 70's and just love breeding dogs. It is the cleanest place i have seen that has animals. The barn that the dogs were in was cleaner than most peoples houses. It is not fair to call them a puppy mill when you haven't seen the place. They have top quality dogs at prices people can afford and they wont sell a dog to anyone they don't see fit. I would recommend them to anyone and will buy my next puppy from them!

**Murreydobe** · 01-19-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonner

The barn that the dogs were in was cleaner than most peoples houses. !

LOLOL, say no more!

Incredibledobe · 01-19-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonner

I purchased my dobe from indiana noon shine. It is far from a puppy mill. The millers are in there 70's and just love breeding dogs. It is the cleanest place i have seen that has animals. The barn that the dogs were in was cleaner than most peoples houses. It is not fair to call them a puppy mill when you haven't seen the place. They have top quality dogs at prices people can afford and they wont sell a dog to anyone they don't see fit. I would recommend them to anyone and will buy my next puppy from them!

Well then that is YOUR mistake and YOUR lack of education on the breed. Unfortunately, those who do rescue and those who breed responsibly are the ones who will pay for it.

jonner · 01-19-2009, 01:54 PM

So i guess my dog is a mistake, she is the best mistake i have ever made

Incredibledobe · 01-19-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonner

So i guess my dog is a mistake, she is the best mistake i have ever made

No, and I apologize if I implied that. Supporting a greeder like this who damages the breed by breeding dogs who should not be bred (risking totally ruining the set type of the breed), are kept outside (in a barn, no less) and does no health testing on a breed that already has a myriad of problems - HUGE mistake.

jonner · 01-19-2009, 02:01 PM

I will agree with you that dobermans should be kept inside. I also agree that breeders should breed only to improve the breed which i think is hard to do with dobe's b/c they are such great dogs.

DoodleDobe · 01-19-2009, 02:25 PM

I ran across several Noon Shine Dobes while doing rescue in Ohio. Both were rescued from horrible homes. One later developed severe behaviorial problems. I can only imagine how many of their dogs land in Indiana shelters and then slip through the cracks to the gas chamber considering IN doesn't have a rescue based there.

**velmadobe** · 01-19-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonner

So i guess my dog is a mistake, she is the best mistake i have ever made

No one here cares where you got your dog - we want you to love and care for the dog you have. What we do care about is for people to learn WHY we don't like greeders like your dogs breeder, and to not perpetuate the problem by breeding more or buying from breeders like them again. Education is a huge part of this forum as is celebrating and enjoying the dogs that we have..... no matter where they came from.

Navistardobe · 01-19-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonner

I purchased my dobe from indiana noon shine. It is far from a puppy mill. The millers are in there 70's and just love breeding dogs. It is the cleanest place i have seen that has animals. The barn that the dogs were in was cleaner than most peoples houses. It is not fair to call them a puppy mill when you haven't seen the place. They have top quality dogs at prices people can afford and they wont sell a dog to anyone they don't see fit. I would recommend them to anyone and will buy my next puppy from them!

This is a serious question, why do you say they have top quality dogs? What makes these dogs top quality?
A puppy mill doesn't have to be dirty and nasty. A puppy mill is a breeding operation that pumps out puppies with no thought to the breeding - except to make puppies.
Welcome to the Forum, keep an open mind and you'll learn a lot here.

**greenkouki** · 01-19-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonner

I will agree with you that dobermans should be kept inside. I also agree that breeders should breed only to improve the breed which i think is hard to do with dobe's b/c they are such great dogs.

you know, the homeless doberman at the local humane society or dobe rescue group is probably a great dog too. Breeding and selling poor quality dogs for selfish reasons only compounds the pet overpopulation problem.

kbentley2418 · 01-20-2010, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moona

I want to preface this by saying that I am NOT looking to buy a doberman from this breeder. This is a breeder that I came across when I began my search for a doberman. I had not found DobermanTalk before I got Roxy from Hand Me Down Dobes Rescue. Once I found this site, I searched on this breeder to see what you all had to say about them, and I didn't find anything. I wanted to post this to get others opinions on the breeder to help anyone else who might be searching for a breeder and come across them. Personally, I saw Red Flags all over the place, but I'd love to get fellow DT members opinions posted to (hopefully) help others. The website is: Indiana Noon Shine Home Page

Thanks!

Just trying to figure out why you think that this breeder is soooo bad. They only breed Dobermans. It looks like they used to breed other breeds and some goats. lol...just curious. Looks as if they have 1 male dog and 1 female....which wouldn't constitute a puppy mill to me? I came across a few puppy mills in Kentucky and noticed one guy had over 21 female dogs he was breeding out of his backyard....that my friend....is a puppy mill.

So what RED FLAGS are you talking about?

kbentley2418 · 01-20-2010, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navistardobe

This is a serious question, why do you say they have top quality dogs? What makes these dogs top quality?
A puppy mill doesn't have to be dirty and nasty. A puppy mill is a breeding operation that pumps out puppies with no thought to the breeding - except to make puppies.
Welcome to the Forum, keep an open mind and you'll learn a lot here.

Maybe people should do a little more homework before lashing out at anyone who is a breeder. These people have 2 dogs. That's it! They are by no means a puppy mill.

They are in the 70's or early 80's. They have one litter at a time and hand raise the dogs. ANYONE THINKING THE MILLER'S ARE RUNNING A MILL HAS OBVIOUSLY NEVER SEEN THE PLACE. Momma dog stays in the house and so do the puppies until they get so big. They won't sell them until they are over 8 weeks old. WHY IN THE WORLD IS THAT CONSIDERED A PUPPY MILL?

DoodleDobe · 01-20-2010, 08:16 AM

Perhaps puppy mill is a bit strong, would you go for back yard breeder producing poor quality pups on full registration, sold to poorly screened homes thus contributing to the problem of pet overpopulation with irresponsible breeding practices? And personally, who cares how old the Millers are? Shouldn't seniors be held accountable for their actions? I have seen several of these dogs and the homes they were rescued from. The dogs rescued were not a good representation of the breed, were sold on full registration from Noon Shine and were a male/female pair from different litters, close to the same age....not responsible breeding practices!!

kbentley2418 · 01-20-2010, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbentley2418

Maybe people should do a little more homework before lashing out at anyone who is a breeder. These people have 2 dogs. That's it! They are by no means a puppy mill.

They are in the 70's or early 80's. They have one litter at a time and hand raise the dogs. ANYONE THINKING THE MILLER'S ARE RUNNING A MILL HAS OBVIOUSLY NEVER SEEN THE PLACE. Momma dog stays in the house and so do the puppies until they get so big. They won't sell them until they are over 8 weeks old. WHY IN THE WORLD IS THAT CONSIDERED A PUPPY MILL?

http://www.dobermantalk.com/images/smilies/emo11.gif
Obviously If I'm not adopting a dog from a shelter...I'm probably a bad person. I bought my dog from Noon Shine and they are wonderful people who genuinely like what they do and enjoy it. Dog breeding is a business. These people are smart and caring of their dogs. As for everyone who thinks they are breeding multiple breeds should have their head checked because they other breeds they listed...are no longer available.....or are GOATS! They have several acres where they live...have a barn with ANIMALS in it! haha....(o i know....what a crime.) http://www.dobermantalk.com/images/smilies/doctor.gif

I won't be back posting anything on these forums...people want to bash when they haven't a clue what they are talking about....

As for breeding to make the breed better??? You're retarded...shut up. You breed to make money. Period....if anyone claims otherwise and you bought it....you're an idiot, and I take pity on the fact that you're that stupid.http://www.dobermantalk.com/images/smilies/graduate.gif

I love my doberman....she is a great dog....she stays indoors when it's cold....she prefers to be outside when it's warmer....I have 5 kids that love her...and she has a great mind and spirit. Healthy as a horse....and I bought her from Noon Shine. She is probably one of the best dobe's I've ever owned...http://www.dobermantalk.com/images/smilies/kiss.gif

BoxMeIn21 · 01-20-2010, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbentley2418

Maybe people should do a little more homework before lashing out at anyone who is a breeder. These people have 2 dogs. That's it! They are by no means a puppy mill.

They are in the 70's or early 80's. They have one litter at a time and hand raise the dogs. ANYONE THINKING THE MILLER'S ARE RUNNING A MILL HAS OBVIOUSLY NEVER SEEN THE PLACE. Momma dog stays in the house and so do the puppies until they get so big. They won't sell them until they are over 8 weeks old. WHY IN THE WORLD IS THAT CONSIDERED A PUPPY MILL?

We don't need to see the place to know that these folks are damaging the breed. They don't title their dogs to prove they are even worthy of being bred, there is no mention of health testing or how they are improving the breed as a whole. All they breed is pets...look on Petfinder and you'll find thousands and thousands of PETS. And to boot, they recommend Kimbertal Dobermans. GAG.

What's sad is that these folks are in their 70-80's and they STILL don't know any better.