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Old 04-16-2008, 10:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Whited K-9 Services, Inc

Anybody out there have any personal dealing with there Dobermans.
Pluses or negitives regarding there buisness ethics. For some reason at this point im feeling a little uncomfortable even asking for opinions. but i know my wallet cant afford to be conned. I should add that i have no problems with this person personally. Actually i really like the guy but somtimes the Nicest people make the slickest con men. Like i said i hate to ask but i wouldnt be doing myself or my future prospect justice if i didnt. The sire of the litter im looking at is Tsenturion Sant Kreal at this point im not sure who the dam is but no worrys i will soon.
Hoping for some good news i really want these to be the peeps i finally settle on.

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Old 04-16-2008, 10:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Well i'm a novice- and i'm sure you will get better and more educated opinions than mine but a lot of red flags for me on this website. They seem like dog brokers- people that are truly looking to make $$ by moving volumes of dogs. I also cant stant when people boast about the "rare" colors and talk about breeding for color. That they tout the "rareness" and breeding for color- to me is a turnoff. Personally I want to do business with a breeder that will always have the time to work with me etc, i wouldnt be wanting to dial a 1888 number.

Confirmation on many of the dogs i'm looking at leaves a lot to be desired. Maybe its just some of the pix? But some of the dogs dont even look 100% dobe to me?

I'm sure with this sheer volume of dogs some of them are nice...

what exactly are you looking for? Tell us a little more of what you are looking for and you will get great recommendations.

Good for you for doing research!!
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I would stay away from Whited K-9. I would stay away from any kennel that has their hands in so many pots at one time though - Whited deals with many different breeds. If you're looking for a good quality nice Dobe, I would narrow my search to someone who is less involved with other breeds and more involved with just Dobes. Have you looked at the DPCA breeder referral page?
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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One word.... Run.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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....

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Old 04-16-2008, 10:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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ok phew good- im glad it wasn't just me.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I would stay away from dog brokers in general.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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He is a broker who mostly gets puppies from European puppy mills, parents with minimal health testing and from "champion lines". A lot of times so-called European show kennels. Here and there you will find an IPO-1 on one of the parents. Insiders know how those are achieved in Russia and countries like Serbia, Slovenia etc.

Prices are through the roof.

It would be really helpful to know what you are looking for. Are you looking for a companion, a dog from show lines or working lines? Plenty of resources here in the US.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Yeah i was afraid these are the types of comments id recieve. but better to ask now then to be sorry later. I seen all the red flags to but i suppose i was hoping this was going to be one of those very rare situations where "it was to good but still true" and im pretty sure the reason it took me so long to ask was because i really didnt want to know the truth. i guess i was just trying to prolong the little fairy tale playing out in my head.
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Old 04-16-2008, 11:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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awww well looking back at your first post and how hopeful you were for good stuff i'm sorry you didnt get what you were looking for. TRUST me if you looked my first post asking to look at the 1st breeder i had chosen- i'm got exactly the same answers as you. I did listen to the folks here, got some great recommendations and am so excited to have found an awesome breeder! you will too!! just hang in there and be patient It will work out!
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Old 04-16-2008, 11:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks clipclop, Its all good and all part of it these days. ohh well back to the drawing board
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Old 04-16-2008, 11:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Can you tell us what specifically you are looking for? Do you want just a nice, healthy companion? Do you want a jogging partner? A new protection dog? Perhaps an AKC obedience dog? These will help people direct you to good breeders that health test and do stuff with the parents.
Good luck.
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Old 04-17-2008, 11:45 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Im seeking out a Healthy 100% euro Black F
Pet quality puppy with full AKC registration. Also parents must be OFA certified. My early goals would be CGC, and a possible agility or disk dog candidate. Not for points but more for fun and excercise locally. What im saying she dosent have to win she just has to have the temperment to look forward to the games and enjoy them.

Oh yeah almost forgot to mention, a few champs in the pedigree would be a bonus.

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Old 04-17-2008, 12:03 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Woops forgot to ask a pretty important question. What should i expect to be a reasonable price for my puppy prospect?
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Old 04-17-2008, 12:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I think it will be hard to come by a female of that quality that will come with full registration. There are litters coming up or that are already here that fit your description, but the breeders are going to be very picky as to where thier pups go and what is done with them. You can expect limited registration to begin with and then upon the completion of various health and performance exams to get full registration. That seems to be the norm. You must remember that there are a lot of scoundrels out there that just buy a "euro" dobe that "comes from great lines" and mass breed for profit. No reputable breeder is going to allow this to be their offspring's fate. If you do find one of these "great euro dogs" and it does come full registration with no strings attached, buyer beware. You will get what you pay for. If you can deal with breeding restrictions (if you really just want a pet), then you will have no problems. As far as price is concerned... IMHO price for dobes does not always correlate with quality.
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Old 04-17-2008, 12:47 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I really have to stress what Erynn just wrote - price doesn't correlate with quality - some of the worst "quality" dobes I've seen have had the most outrageous prices - I've seen dobes that sold for 5K that were completely BYB, horrible ear crops, no health testing and no titles in the background. I've seen good breeders GIVE their dogs away. And everything in between.
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Old 04-17-2008, 12:54 PM   #17 (permalink)
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A pet quality dog from a good breeder will not come with full registration. They will come with limited registration with the mandate of spay/neuter in their contract. A show dog prospect may come with full- but again, for a 1st time dobe owner typically come with a lot of questions and commitment/assurances back to the breeder. *this is what I am going through now* You can get a great pet quality puppy from two fully finished champion parents for about $1500.00

Can I ask why the lines must be 100% european? If you are looking to do agility etc- (sounds like FUN!) you may want to find some breeders with that in their background vs. an euro breeder that titles their dogs in schutzhund that has a prey drive you may not be prepared for. Temperment as a 1st time dobe owner was VERY important for me. Great questions!!
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Old 04-17-2008, 02:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Hey clipclop, I dont mind the answering your question or anybody elses for that matter. Actually i encourge them. Ill have to answer them all when a breeder asks anyways.

My prefrence for an euro line doberman is simple. I personally consider them the most beautiful of all dog breeds, hands down. And actually your comment on euro dobes probably not being the most suited towards this kind of sports is correct. thats why im not looking to compete. And just want to train at the local agility course for fun as thats really the only semi organized k-9 sport in my local area. And i guess disk dog was a stretch maybe i should have just said frisbee at the beach lol.

And just so nobody thinks im trying to hide anything. The first and foremost reason i want a black female is because i already have a red male, I definatly want to avoid male on male aggression issues.
Secondly the reason i want a full AKC registration is because id like the option to start a hobby breeding program in the future.

My long term goals for the future include Going back to school an/or begin apprenticing under an accomplished K-9 trainer. And then sooner or later open a doggy day care and boarding kennel, with a dog park. Offering K-9 Training, Boarding, Sporting events, and maybe even grooming. I would also like to start the first Kennel Club in my area for sporting/working breed dogs. Of course this is a vary condensed version of my buisness plan and goals over the next 10 years.
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Old 04-17-2008, 03:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
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No reputable breeder in the US is going to give you full registration, no matter what your plans with your puppy are, at least not initially, and even after fulfilling certain requirements, you will most likely have to sign a breeding contract. The only venue you would need full registration for is AKC conformation.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but why do you think Euro Dobes would not be suitable for agility? Just wondering ... As long as you have a nice square dog with good drive that's not oversized, I don't think that would matter. Agility is quite popular in Europe as well.

I also hope that you have more stringent requirements than just OFA hips for the parents. And be prepared that good breeders will have very stringent requirements for you and a lot of questions as well.
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Old 04-17-2008, 03:20 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Yes, thyroid and heart testing are also extremely important.
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Old 04-17-2008, 03:29 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Hello Dobeman, I know im fighting an uphill battle if not down right impossible. oh well perservernce will eventually pay off.

and i believe you may have misunderstood my comment about Euro Dobes and agility but only because i should have worded myself better. i just simpily meant that other sports such as schutzhund are more up an Euro Dobes ally.
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Old 04-17-2008, 03:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Yeah i know my bad, i just tryed to forego all the extra typing by saying "healthy"
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:14 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Tell us more about your male. Does he have any titles? Health testing? What kennel did you get him from? Curious dobe people are very interested!
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Old 04-17-2008, 06:31 PM   #24 (permalink)
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So this puppy is going to be the start of your breeding program?
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Old 04-17-2008, 08:04 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Hi Doberkim, Hopefully someday.
in a couple years and only if i aquire a sound dog and all health tests check out fine and i get the go ahead from my vet.

Id like to add that this isnt exactly my first go around in breeding. I used to breed Hybrid Wolves when i was younger, Until a state wide ban in Michigan went into affect. I will however admit i wasent nearly as informed as i thought i was. Research wasnt as readily available 15 years ago as it is today. i have learned a considerable amount since then and know i have a ton more to learn as i move forward in life. Especially with the Doberman Breed. But one thing i can say is my vet has seen each and every pup ive ever produced and im confident he would give me a thumbs up if i told him i needed a reference to purchase a Bitch with the intentions to breed. As a matter of fact im sure he would encourge it. i really hope this dosent come off Sounding rude, as it is not my intent. But unlike anybody here he knows me personally and knows my ethics.
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