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Dog was saved by his trainer with CPR (Warning-emotional video)

3K views 39 replies 22 participants last post by  Murreydobe 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
#2 ·
You need to put a warning up about that video. It's an emotional minefield to anyone who's lost a dog to sudden death DCM, and probably to a lot of people who haven't.

Personally, I don't think CPR or any extraordinary measures to save a dog from sudden death due to cardiac problems (as is obviously the case as this is a boxer) is really the best thing for the dog. All you're doing is delaying the inevitable.
 
#8 ·
I actually made it thru it without crying. Got a tear in my eye, but no all out crying.

I don't know if cpr was the right thing to do either. Everything will just be repeated on down the road...

The film starts with the dog already unconcious laying on the ground. Ron comes over and does the cpr and eventually the dog regains conciousness. He is confused and he is sitting but still not able to walk at the end of the video which is 7:52 long.
 
#9 ·
I don't know if it was the right thing either--mostly because it's not my dog, nor a dog I know.

I did not watch the video, too close to home for me, can't do it.

But, the discussion has made me ponder a bit: Some humans *do* believe heroics are appropriate.

Who am I to deprive them of that? Or to pass judgement on them?

I know someone whose Weim has a (different than DCM) heart condition and I guarandamntee you if her dog collapsed during training, she would NOT be able to deal, unless folks jumped in and tried to save her dog.

I know folks who've gone thru amputation and chemo, with osteosarcoma, and the end is inevitable with that one, too.

I guess I know what I'm personally comfortable with, and I would likely have let the dog go...but, again, not my dog.

If medical protocols are followed, the owners love the animal and are truly trying to make the best decisions--well, lots of grey area in there for judgement calls, and it's their dog.
 
#10 ·
I watched it before the warning.

The owner was a young gal, I think we are a bit more seasoned (not the word I am looking for) you might say.

She just wanted her dog back, and honestly I think I would do the exact same thing that guy did (if this was the first presentation), now that I have an idea how to do it.

Clearly, I have not been through DCM however.
 
#12 ·
taurean, I had this discussion with my husband and we both went back and forth with what ifs. What if it gave us just one more day to say our goodbyes instead of being so shocked at our loss, we could have that day to love her and prepare. What if she unknowingly suffered through that day? But she would be with us and we would spoil her and give her the best last day of her life. etc., etc., etc. I guess maybe it was fortunate Cleo was beyond resuscitation when we found her as we would have stood and argued over her for an hour.

It is so hard to say how we would react in that situation. I think, if our dog was diagnosed with heart disease and we had been treating it and knowing that his/her life was destined to be short, then I'd let them go in peace. However, not knowing and wondering if it was some kind of fluke, I may try to resuscitate.

I did watch the video. Didn't think it right to add a warning without and I gasped and cried because the dog I saw was my Cleo, all over again. Cleo had been outside while I went to the store and the kids went in to get washed up for dinner after playing all day. Hubby was supposed to start the grill while I was at the store but got lazy and waited for me to get home. When he went out he wasn't greated by the dogs and found Cleo lying on her side; she had passed away. There was no way at that point to even think of reviving. Would I have had I saw her collapse, yup, probably.
 
#13 ·
What seems to be unrealized in some comments here is this:

" ...Once the dog was resuscitated, the owner took him to the vet. It was later found out Sugar has Cardiomyopathy."

It was not discovered until after this incident. For me to think that some people here would simply let their dog dog die to avoid simplying "delaying the inevitable," kind of disturbs me. I would like to think that dog owners and lovers would do all they can to save the life of their family member. Remember that the dog was NOT diagnosed prior to this incident, as well. For one to simply turn away and let the dog die without trying something makes me glad that person is not and will never be a caretaker of my dog.

There are a number of stories on this forum alone of people that have taken in rescues with prior issues and saved their lives and spent thousands on surgeries to prolong the life of the dog. How does the arguement of not worth delaying the inevitable work in those cases? How is that so different?

I applaud this man for saving that dog. He might live another few days or years and years. This can only strengthen their family bond. Also, now that the owner has a raised awareness, they can make intellegent choices for the future. Also, it puts animal CPR as a headline story. Win, win, win IMO.
 
#14 ·
What seems to be unrealized in some comments here is this:

" ...Once the dog was resuscitated, the owner took him to the vet. It was later found out Sugar has Cardiomyopathy."

It was not discovered until after this incident. For me to think that some people here would simply let their dog dog die to avoid simplying "delaying the inevitable," kind of disturbs me.IMO.
I think the difference is that some people on here have a lot of experience with Dobermans and DCM so that the picture was pretty clear to them. With their experience and history in the breed they just know. Having lived through it is painful and watching it I am certain would bring all those emotions back.

Now add this to it. If one of the dogs you are closely associated with could be considered one of the greatest producers in the history of the DPCA, but instead is remembered by many for this terrible disease and passing that on to its prodigy; I think that could color anyone's perspective..

Having said all that, I agree with you. I have actually attended a seminar with Ron Pace years ago and had a pretty positive perception of him.

To me he seemed to honestly care about the dogs and handlers and want the best for them.

Ron saw a dog in trouble and an owner in distress
He acted and tried to do something to help
And he was successful
That should be seen as a good thing.
At no point in that video do you see the woman asking him to stop. She wants him to help her dog.

As RFR pointed out - it is her dog and her decision to make.

The last I heard the dog is doing well on the medication.

You are right, they did not know what the problem was. Now they do and have a chance to treat the dog and value every day with him. She might get an extra year she might not. She has had him almost an extra week at this point. Who am I to say how much extra time with her dog makes it worth it?

I am happy for her that Ron was there and able to help her. She has both answers and extra time with her dog that she seems to be grateful for.

And as you say; it brought attention to canine CPR.... these are all good things

Sue L
 
#16 ·
I am one of those people that lost my dog to Sudden Death...One minute playing in the back yard-the next on the ground ---GONE...I tried CPR-nothing-rushed him to the Emergency vets-but it was too late.They told me he was probably dead before he hit the ground....Never will I forget that day and it will be 6 years May 8th
 
#25 ·
.He died doing what he loved to do-play and in his backyard where he loved to play...
Sometimes that's the only VERY small shred of comfort available-that they died doing what they loved the best,never knowing what hit them, rather than in fear and pain. It's not much of a consolation, but when your world has fallen apart, it's better than no consolation at all.
 
#21 ·
My heart dog Petey....who is laying on my lap licking my face as I type this has DCM. There is NO CURE, it is a death sentence. The most we can expect with some cases...is buying some time with a good cardiologist and medications. Some Dobes get years, others only months or weeks. We all know that the possibility of our Dobes getting DCM is pretty high could be close to 50%, some old, and some young, my boy was diagnosed at 3, another DT members boy was in CHF at 3 and dead soon after. Boxers are the other known breed that should be checked yearly according to Petey's Cardiologist. I think that posting that video here on DT is very emotional for those of us dealing with this devastating disease day in and day out. For those that have seen their dog die suddenly...it must put them right back to where they were that instant their beloved was taken from them. I wake up during the night to check and see if my boy is breathing. I moved his bed right next to me, so I can reach down and pet him. The other night I thought that he was gone, he felt cold.....I felt as though I was having a heart attack....thankfully his time hadn't come yet, but for the entire next day I had mini panic attacks about when, and how am I going to deal with him leaving me. The best way for a Dobe with DCM to go....is to die sudden, it's awful for us...but painless for the dog. Although the pain of living through the last 15 months of knowing has been hard....having that 15 months to spoil the crap out of my boy, has been a blessing. He is having the best life possible, never a day taken for granted. It's taught me to treat everyone in my life like it's their last day on earth. I'm hopeful Petey makes it through this coming summer in good health...because I've planned two really great vacations where he can come and have a blast. If not...his life has been one full of quality experiences and so much love.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Also....as for accepting the inevitable and letting nature take it's course ....it's such a slippery slope and everyone feels different about it. And no one is right or wrong with how they feel. Saving that dog seems like a great heroic act, that might lead to some good quality time, but it might not, the dog could be close to CHF, and now die a horrible death. I am a licensed Wildlife Rehabilitator. I get a lot of animals from my local Humane Society, they believe in saving every animal that comes through their doors no matter what. As a Wildlife Rehabber.....I do not believe that a wild animal should be saved if it has to spend the rest of his life locked in a cage, this is the belief of most seasoned rehabbers. I take classes about this issue. Death is a part of nature....and most people have a really hard time accepting it. As I'm writing this a phone call came in about a wild opossum, had to have this exact discussion with the caller. I think that given a choice....most dogs would rather go out sudden doing what they love best...then to be given years of what they would consider a low quality life. Dogs live in the moment...and as for my two....it's all about the fun and food!

WOW...this thread has really helped me! Thanks for starting it!!!
 
#24 · (Edited)
. Saving that dog seems like a great heroic act, that might lead to some good quality time, but it might not, the dog could be close to CHF, and now die a horrible death.
Exactly. And I've seen that happen. It's not likely to happen with a boxer, as their cardiac problems are almost exclusively related to arrthymias. But with a doberman..it's a very real possibility, a chance I'd never take.

I do agree with Carol that there is no right or wrong about using extraordinary measures to try to revive a dog who's suffered a DCM sudden death. Everyone has to make their own choices.

I know what my choice would be, and I'm sorry if that's disturbing to anyone else. Maybe if you'd seen what I've seen you just might feel differently.

I also know what I'd think about someone filming my dog's sudden death-people might just get a chance to see me become violent. :(
 
#31 ·
Yeah, this thread has been hard for me, not only because of my own personal loss, but because I once had a longtime, beloved client dog go into CHF crisis in a big, bad way on my grooming table.

I'd seen this dog (toy breed) weekly for over ten years, and I adored her and really liked her owners. In fact, a few months before, I'd held her "brother" for euth for them, as they were unable emotionally, but wanted him to have someone he knew and loved there for him, at the end.

So, Wendy gave a wet, nasty cough (no noticeable symptoms at home or in the shop, prior to that) and suddenly had the foamy bloody fluid crisis--I won't go into more detail, those of you who've been thru it know, those who haven't probably don't want to know.

She collapsed; I immediately started CPR (still worked for the vet at that time) and yelled for help. We drove 100 mph the short distance to the vet, me doing CPR the whole time. I knew her prognosis was grave, but, without a formal diagnosis, and without her owner there telling me to stop--no way was I stopping.

Sadly, while she was "still going" when we made it to the vet, he was unable to save her.

I do know her owner was very grateful we tried, though.

And yes, I agree, there is just something in me, that--unless I really knew it was for sure against the dog's best interests, I would have to try.

...Something to keep in mind here is that at the time they didn't know what the problem was. Could people have made an educated guess and know the eventually outcome? Sure. However, at the same time when an emergency situation arises the mindset isn't to sit there and think about whether or not to do anything but if trained to go into save mode....
I think this is absolutely key.

The way the thread read, prior to clarification, was sort of like the owner knew the dog had cardiomyopathy, and was somewhat refusing to let the dog go. I think that was why, on the tone of some of the responses.

Even then, even if they did know, I still would have a hard time passing judgement--after all, a huge part of grief--as we well know--is denial and anger. Who wants to give up if there is a chance?

I'm not saying that calm acceptance is not better for the dog--it likely is--in most cases, just saying it's a slippery slope to judge someone else for possibly being emotionally unable to let go, in a crisis moment.

After what I've been thru, I will never let another Doberman--should I be unlucky enough to have another in CHF--go thru what my Ez did. I will give them some good time, however long or brief that's destined to be--and I will let them go.

But, would I be in that place, had I not already been down that path? Probably not.

I hope the owner of the dog in the video gets some good, saying-goodbye time, and makes the best decision for the dog, in the end.
 
#27 · (Edited)
I agree that it's a very personal decision. Something to keep in mind here is that at the time they didn't know what the problem was. Could people have made an educated guess and know the eventually outcome? Sure. However, at the same time when an emergency situation arises the mindset isn't to sit there and think about whether or not to do anything but if trained to go into save mode.


I had a lab mix, Alexis, that had some type of heart episode at 12.5 years old. My dad brought her in from her morning potty break and as he handed her a treat she just kind of fell over for a minute or two. Just the day before she was out running around like a spaz in the yard. She got back up and seemed fine. We called our vet and he said that it could have been a minor seizure since she kind of tensed up and fell over and to watch her. Within a few hours she couldn't hold water down and was just laying there. While I called my dad bawling and saying he had to come home so we could go to the vet that darn dog started licking my face. It turned out she had probably had a heart condition for a while but being a dog she just pushed through. Her left ventricle (the one that pumps blood to the body) had finally just gone out of whack and was randomly quivering once in a while. They said if we wanted to we could try a pacemaker but given her age we didn't think it would be worth putting her through that and made the best and hardest decision ever.

It would have been devastating, but having gone through those last few hours with Lex, I wish for her sake she hadn't gotten back up that morning or that I could have known exactly what was going on and ended her suffering sooner. So I will say that now knowing the circumstances, I would hope that the owner would realize if it happens again that maybe it's this dog's time, but again it's her dog.
 
#29 ·
Glad there was a warning. Lost my first Dobe to sudden death right in front of my eyes also. Back then (early 80's) we had no clue what had happened or what to do but rush to the vet but he was already gone. Its going on 30 years and I can see that day as if it were yesterday. Not sure I want to ever go through that again but we never know when the time is. I am just thankful that we now have more awareness regarding DCM.
 
#30 ·
I still haven't watched the video and won't.

This comment is directed more at us "just a pet" owners :)

I think it's important to drive home the importance of wellness visits, holtering, as much testing as possible in a breed that is prone is numerous health problems. It's my opinion that if you take the responsibility to bring a Doberman into your family, you provide annual or biannual cardio testing.

Sam will be 7 this year and to date has no cardio issues. I know this because I have him tested. He's holtered every 6 months and annual EKG, ECHO, chest xrays. If his cardio status changed, I would be able to take the appropriate actions.

I would never want him to suffer in silence. However, I would not prolong his suffering if his quality of life was compromised.
 
#35 ·
I just want to say I was not finger pointing or making any judgement about what the owner of Ron did in bringing the boxer back around.

If I were the owner and had no idea of what could have caused my dog to pass out like that, I am sure I would be begging for someone to help. But knowing what I know, if Parker were to drop I would not allow anyone to touch him, but would allow him to pass in peace. For me there would be no good alternatives. But if someone elses doberman dropped in front of me and they were begging for help, I would not be telling them all was for the best to leave the dog alone, unless they specifically asked what I would do. I would let them do what they thought was right because it would be their learning curve not mine.

If anyone thinks I was passing judgement let me clarify that I was not.
 
#36 ·
I am grateful for this video for an altogether different reason. Actually it really doesn't concern the video at all. Underneath it I noticed a link for training dogs for diseases. My mother told me her dog seemed to know when she was close to a diabetic crisis. And the trainer on the video seems to work for this place. At least when I donate to service dogs at work, I intend to see this foundation on the donation list.

And I do think the video should have been shot. It might help some other pet owner practice CPR--whether or not the illness is cardiomyopathy (sp.).
 
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