Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner

Attention World Dobermann Breeders

10K views 56 replies 25 participants last post by  Amelia_ 
#1 ·
My dear fellow breeders

Posted: September 19th, 2013

I believe that now and for years back all of us had felt the need to express our opinion and to struggle for the well being of our beloved breed. Most of the things were already spoken of and about, yet a little has been done, so both our Dobermanns and we as breeders will be billed with a hefty price. Today the moment has come, more then ever before, for us to stand united and provide to each other a strong support, especially after recent unilateral decision by the IDC council, that becomes effective as of 1st of January, 2015 and upon which there would be no possibility to have docked and cropped dog and have it displayed on any show so the years of our work, blood, sweat and tears will be violently dismissed, all in the name of the decision in which we did not even participated.
Therefore an idea is being born, an idea about forming an international Dobermann breeder’s club. It will not be some obscure, illegal or parallel organization, but simply a club of renown and recognized breeders, the ones that are ready to use any and all means of democracy as well as the right to confront through debate, and if necessary to fight for the well being of our breed. This would be the starting point from which our voice would be heard by the ones that are managing the breeds’ beneficial organizations.
Who knows the breed’s problems better then us and who can advise and who is the one who could and should protect it? Surely, there has got to be the way and the time to get together and meet, at least on more important shows. For now, we need membership, ideas and advices by all of us, so we could do something before it’s too late.

Thank you. We ask you to join us in a single easy step.

Sign in your name and your kennel’s name on the form posted in the link given below.


World Dobermann Breeders My dear fellow breeders


I know some of you might say this is a pet dobermann forum but the problems we are facing is universal...today to us in Europe, tomorrow for you guys in the States..
So if you are a breeder and against this standard change, please show your support by signing the petition.. and distribute this form as much as you can.
 
See less See more
#4 ·
When our choices are taken away and the breeders who actually care about cardio are gone on to other breeds, or out of the game all together you won't have to worry about it. It's time we stand together on all issues, not sit here and constantly fight internally.
 
#5 ·
So, are you saying that the breeders who are most diligent about cardio screening, and careful pedigree research, are also the exact ones who will leave the breed if there are government bans on cropping/docking?
 
#12 ·
Well you know I have to say something RFR.

With the new change it doesn't seem like there's much of a choice to be had for breeders abroad, unfortunately. Taking away this "choice" could be the last nail in the coffin for many long time breeders. They will move to healthier breeds that don't need to be cropped and docked to preserve their breed type. We can all agree nothing is like a doberman but there are some decent alternatives, and much healthier ones at that.
 
#14 ·
I guess, for me (and apparently others reading along), this begs the question, though--why isn't there seemingly as much passion and uproar about those breeders doing sketchy things, with regard to cardio and other major health issues, as there is about "breed type" as it relates to ears and tail?
 
#13 ·
Personally I think it was a bad move to ban cropped&docked dogs from competing. If they want to ban it happening on any new dogs that is fine, but why punish GOOD dogs and handlers in other countries where it is expected in a breed already struggling for both health AND sport success? Wasn't there a Landgraf dog, a good honest working doberman, that couldn't compete in an international event because he's cropped and docked? I think that is ridiculous and overly harsh.

Unfortunately I don't know of a better cutoff. Perhaps they could say that only dogs done prior to the ban could compete (with papers to prove birthdate) and within 10-15 years no dogs that are cropped or docked can compete... that should give breeders and handlers in crop/dock countries enough time to breed, train, and prove natural competitors. IDK. Something better than that 2 year cutoff they've got going now.




...that said... y'all know I like me a natural dog, so I can't complain about the ban per say. Personally I think that health should be first and foremost and honestly the original doberman is long gone, I think the founder would be rolling in his grave over the HEALTH of the breed alone before he started any fussing about ears and tails.
 
#16 ·
I don't know where people get the idea that when the ban on C/D goes ahead all of a sudden the cardio problem will go away.

First of all,the ban which has been in place in Western European countries for some years now has proven only one thing...the drastic reduction of the population of dobermann in those countries.. they are producing one forth of the litters they were producing before and NO scientific improvement has been recorded health wise!

So,if this universal ban is going to reduce the dobermann population (hence the gene pool) how the hell will it help the breeds health issues in the long run?

If these idiots proposing the ban had any real concern about the health of the breed, they wouldn't bother with C/D and concentrate on strict measures forcing breeders to do more extensive health testing.

My personal belief is that the standard change (ban on C/D) is being made towards making some people in high places happy..that's all :mad:
 
#17 ·
My comments in blue.

I don't know where people get the idea that when the ban on C/D goes ahead all of a sudden the cardio problem will go away...

Um, who said THIS? Makes zero sense.

All that is being said is--why isn't there an outcry about other, far more fundamental things that affect the Doberman?

Get all that stuff fixed, and then hoopledeeray, go for it, on the c/d uproar.

...If these idiots proposing the ban had any real concern about the health of the breed, they wouldn't bother with C/D and concentrate on strict measures forcing breeders to do more extensive health testing...

Hey, AMEN, on that idea. Get folks together, and get that done.

I will be surprised if that gets a universal good reception--but hey, it's certainly a more substantive move in the right direction, for the breed, than focusing on cosmetics alone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ataro and Rosemary
#18 ·



Dear Fellow Breeders,

Dear Fellow Breeders,
In the past few days we have together, achieved an important result with more than 400 signatures of Breeders from most nations. Your great and willing support gives us the strength to look ahead and decide what action needs to be taken for the future of our breed.
It is our intention to gather together to create an Executive Committee to discuss what actions need to be taken going forward, and given the enormous participation, propose to choose/elect/nominate one delegate per every 10 kennels enrolled from each country, in order to have a fair and democratic committee, amicably represented by the number of associated Breeders. This will enable us to draw up a draft statute and to propose new ideas and advice.
In addition, we also request for all Breeders to join, even those who have not as yet joined, perhaps because they appreciate the choice of the natural Dobermann, and we would like to clarify that for our purpose, it makes no difference between natural and/or docked and/or cropped. Our intention is for the well-being and the growth of the Dobermann Breed, not only with regard to cropping/docking, but the general decline suffered as a result of the ban on cropped/docked dogs as well as health issues, and we believe the choice should still be left to us as breeders.
This group has not been formed to declare war on anyone. It is our intention to build and nurture our breed and try and preserve the Dobermann, together, analyzing and trying to solve to any problems that we encounter as they arise.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders

__________________________________________________________________________________
Cari Amici Allevatori,
insieme ed in pochi giorni, abbiamo raggiunto un importante risultato, più di 400 adesioni di allevatori ufficiali di ogni nazione, il vostro grande sostegno ci da la forza di guardare avanti e decidere insieme i prossimi passi da fare. Come anticipato, è nostra intenzione riunirci personalmente per creare un comitato esecutivo e discutere insieme sulle azioni da intraprendere, visto l’enorme partecipazione proponiamo di scegliere un delegato ogni 10 allevamenti iscritti per ogni nazione, in modo di avere un assemblea equa e democratica e giustamente rappresentata in base al numero degli allevatori associati. Insieme sarà possibile stilare una bozza di statuto e proporre nuove idee e consigli.
Inoltre ci rivolgiamo anche a tutti gli allevatori, anche a quelli che non hanno aderito, magari perché apprezzano la scelta del Dobermann integro, ci teniamo a chiarire che per noi non fa alcuna differenza tra tagliato e integro, ma per il bene e la diffusione della razza, e visto il declino subito a causa del divieto, crediamo solo che questa scelta debba ancora essere lasciata a noi allevatori.
Noi non siamo nati per fare guerre a nessuno,ci piace costruire ed amiamo la nostra razza, per questo cerchiamo di salvaguardarla in prima persona, analizzando e cercando di risolvere insieme ogni tipo problema che si presenterà.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders
__________________________________________________________________________________
Dragi prijatelji odgajivači,
U poslednjih nekoliko dana zajedno smo postigli značajan rezultat sa vise od 400 potpisa odgajivača iz većine nacija. Vaša velika i odlučna podrška nam daje snagu da gledamo unapred i odlučimo kakvu je akciju potrebno sprovesti za budućnost naše rase.
Namera je da se skupimo i zajedno formiramo Izvršni Odbor i kroz to telo definišemo mere koje treba sprovesti, a obzirom na već velik odziv, i predložimo/izaberemo/nominujemo po jednog delegata na svakih 10 odgajivača, probranih iz svake zemlje. Tako bismo uspostavili pravičan i demokratski komitet u skladu sa brojem pridruženih odgajivača. Ovo će nam omogućiti da stvorimo nacrt Statuta i predložimo nove ideje i savete.
Takođe, želimo da da nam pristupe svi odgajivači, pa i oni čiji je izbor Doberman sa ušima/repom jer naša agenda ne čini razliku izmedju psa sa repom i onoga sa kupiranim ušima. Naša je namera vezana za dobrobit i rast ove rase, a ne samo vezana za kupirane pse, ali opšti pad koji će se desiti kao rezultat zabrane kupiranih pasa, kao i zdravstveni problemi, navode na to da izbor treba ostaviti samim odgajivačima.
Ova grupa nije stvorena da objavljuje rat bilo kome. Naša je namera da unapredimo, negujemo i pokušamo da sačuvamo Dobermana, zajedno, kroz analizu i rešavanje problema na koje nailazimo i koji su u rastućem trendu.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders
__________________________________________________________________________________
Kedves Tenyésztő Barátaim
Az elmúlt néhány napban, amióta együtt vagyunk jelentős eredményt értünk el több mint 400 tenyésztő aláírásával különböző nemzetekből. A Ti nagyszerű és hajlandó támogatásotok erőt ad nekünk előre nézni és eldönteni milyen lépéseket kell megtennünk a fajtánk jővője érdekében.
A célunk az, hogy összejöjjünk és létrehozzunk egy olyan vezető bizottságot amely megbeszélni a következő teendőket az előrelépés érdekében. Mivel hatalmas a részvétel javaslom, hogy válasszon/szavazzon/kinevezzen 1 delegált tagot / minden 10 főre a bejegyzett országok szerint, a tisztességes és demokratikus bizottság érdekében és békésen képviselni a számok alapján összetartozó tenyésztőket. Ez lehetővé teszi, hogy kidolgozzunk egy tervet és új javaslatokat, ötleteket tehessünk.
Továbbá kérjük az őszes tenyésztőket hogy csatlakozzanak ,azokat is akik nem vagy még nem csatlatkoztak talán mert ők a dobermannokat természetes füllel és farokkal akarják ; mi szeretnénk tisztázni, hogy nem teszünk különbséget vágott fülü és vágatlan fülü dobermannok közöt. A célunk a fajta jóléte és növekedése, nem csak a vágás miatt, hanem az általános visszaesés a fül és farokvágás betiltásának következményeként, valamint egyéb egészségügyi problémák miatt valamint mi hiszünk abban, hogy a választást még mindig ránk, tenyésztőkre kell hagyni.
Ez a csoport nem azért alakult hogy hadat üzenjen bárkinek. Azzal a céllal alakultunk meg hogy felépítsük és ápoljuk a fajtát és megpróbáljuk megőrizni a Dobermannt együtt, kielemezni éls megpróbálni megoldani a problémákat és találkozzunk amikor azok felmerülnek.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders
__________________________________________________________________________________
Estimados amigos Criadores,
En los últimos días hemos adquirido y logrado un resultado importante con más de 400 firmas de los Criadores de la mayoría de las naciones y/o países. Su gran apoyo y su disposición nos dan la fuerza para mirar hacia el futuro y decidir qué medidas deben tomarse para el futuro de nuestra raza.
Es nuestra intención de reunirse y crear un Comité Ejecutivo para discutir que acciones deben tomarse en el futuro, y dada la enorme participación, con el propósito de elegir / seleccionar / designar un delegado por cada 10 criaderos inscritos de cada país, con el fin de contar con un comité justo y democrático, de forma amistosa representado por el número de criadores asociados. Esto nos permitirá elaborar un proyecto de estatuto y proponer nuevas ideas y consejos.
Además, también solicitamos que todos los criadores a unirse con nosotros, incluso los que aún no se han unido, quizás porque aprecian la elección del Dobermann natural, y nos gustaría aclarar que para nuestro propósito, no hay diferencia entre naturales y / o “Crop” y / o “Dock”. Nuestra intención es que el bienestar y el crecimiento de la raza del Dobermann, no sólo con respecto al “Crop” / “Dock”, pero también disminución general de ser víctimas como consecuencia de la prohibición de los perros “Crop” / “Dock”, así como problemas de salud, y creemos que todavía la elección se debe dejar a nosotros como criadores.
Este grupo no se ha formado para declarar la guerra a nadie. Es nuestra intención de construir y alimentar nuestra raza y tratar de preservar el Dobermann, así como, analizar y tratar de resolver a los problemas que nos encontramos a medida que surjan.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders
__________________________________________________________________________________
Liebe Mitbürger Mitbürgerinnen und Züchter,
In den letzten Tagen haben wir zusammen ein wichtiges Ergebnis mit mehr als 400 Unterschriften von Züchtern aus aller Welt erreicht. Ihre große und bereitwillige Unterstützung gibt uns die Kraft nach vorne zu schauen und entscheiden, welche Maßnahmen für die Zukunft unserer Rasse getroffen werden muss.
Es ist unser Anliegen, unsere Absicht, zu versammeln, um in einem”Executive Kommittee” zu diskutieren, was zu ergreifenden Maßnahmen für die Zukunft wird, und angesichts der enormen Beteiligung müssen arbeiten,vorschlagen,wählen / wählt / einen Delegierten je 10 Zwingern aus jedem Land eingeschrieben, um einen fairen und demokratischen Ausschuss einvernehmlich durch die Anzahl der zugehörigen Züchter vertreten. Dies wird es uns ermöglichen, einen Entwurf/Satzung und neue Ideen und Ratschläge vorzuschlagen.
Darüber hinaus haben wir auch verlangen, für alle Züchter beitreten, auch diejenigen, die noch nicht beigetreten sind, vielleicht weil sie die Wahl des natürlichen Dobermann schätzen, und wir klarstellen möchten, dass für unsere Zwecke, es keinen Unterschied zwischen natürlichen und / oder kupierten oder angedockt und / oder. Unsere Absicht ist es, für das Wohlergehen und das Wachstum der Rasse Dobermann, nicht nur im Hinblick auf Zuschneiden / Docking, aber der allgemeine Rückgang erlitten als Folge des Verbots beschnitten / angedockte(er) Hunde sowie Fragen der Gesundheit, und wir glauben, sollte die Wahl doch noch für uns als Züchter überlassen werden.
Diese Gruppe hat sich nicht gebildet, um den Krieg um jemanden den Krieg zu erklären. Es ist unsere Absicht, unsere Rasse weiter zu pflegen/erhalten und versuchen und die Erhaltung des Dobermann, zusammen, zu analysieren und zu versuchen, auf alle Probleme, denen wir begegnen, wie sie entstehen zu wie wir sie lösen können.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders
__________________________________________________________________________________
Chers éleveurs, Citoyens,
Au cours des derniers jours, nous avons ensemble, a réalisé un résultat important avec plus de 400 signatures d’éleveurs de la plupart des nations. Votre soutien et une grande volonté nous donne la force de regarder vers l’avenir et de décider quelles mesures doivent être prises pour l’avenir de notre race.
Il est de notre intention de se rassembler pour créer un comité exécutif pour discuter des mesures qui doivent être prises à l’avenir, et compte tenu de l’énorme participation, se proposent de choisir / élire / nommer un délégué par tous les 10 élevages inscrits de chaque pays, afin d’avoir un comité juste et démocratique, à l’amiable représentée par le nombre d’éleveurs associés. Cela nous permettra d’élaborer un projet de statut et de proposer de nouvelles idées et des conseils.
En outre, nous demandons également que tous les éleveurs, même ceux qui n’ont pas encore adhéré, peut-être parce qu’ils apprécient le choix du Dobermann naturel, et nous tenons à préciser que, pour notre propos, il ne fait aucune différence entre naturel et / ou amarré et / ou recadrée. Notre intention est pour le bien-être et la croissance de la race Dobermann, non seulement en matière de culture / d’accueil, mais la baisse générale subis à la suite de l’interdiction des chiens à queue coupée / quai ainsi que les questions de santé, et nous croyons le choix devrait toujours être laissée à nous en tant que sélectionneurs.
Ce groupe n’a pas été formé pour déclarer la guerre à qui que ce soit. Il est de notre intention de construire et d’entretenir notre race et d’essayer de préserver le Dobermann, ensemble, d’analyser et d’essayer de résoudre à tous les problèmes qui nous rencontrons à mesure qu’ils surviennent.
WDB
World Dobermann Breeders
 
#19 ·
400 BREEDERS AROUND THE WORLD, SUPPORT US !!!!!!!!!!!!
Provisional list of accessions by country:

Australia 3
Austria 1
Belarus 5
Belgium 1
Bosnia and Herzegovina 4
Brasil 12
Canada 12
China 1
Colombia 1
Croatia 5
Cyprus 3
Denmark 1
Finland 2
France 24
Germany 4
Greece 8
Guatemala 1
Hungary 23
India 3
Indonesia 3
Israel 1
Ireland 4
Italy 48
Kosovo 1
Kyrgyzstan 1
Kazahstan 2
Latvia 5
Luxembourg 1
Macedonia 8
Malta 2
Mexico 5
Montenegro 4
Netherlands 1
Norway 2
Panama 1
Poland 3
Portugal 4
Puerto Rico 2
Republika Srpska.BIH 2
Romania 18
Russia 36
Serbia 41
Slovenia 6
South Africa 7
Spain 8
Sweden 2
Turkey 2
United Kingdom 20
Ukraine 18
USA 31



follow WDB World Dobermann Breeders on facebook >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/239528979533340/
 
#21 ·
This is probably the only issue I'll ever agree with you on iceman. So i thank you twice.

All that ruling does is put yet another stress on the breed as a whole thru divisive means.

From my POV - old timers who've endured countless heartbreaks have this additional straw on the back of the doberman to consider- in some cases hastening their exit & contributions along with them.

Thing is -this ruling bans the showing of c/d dogs from countries where it's legal to do so. Thus splitting & narrowing the gene pool further.

That argument "good riddance to bad rubbish" with the presumption pro c/d-ers "must not love the breed " cuts both ways.

There will be consequences to "fixing" what ain't broke- by the time it's apparent it will be too late.
As it is I predict this breed at its current trajectory will be unrecognizable in 20 years in Europe.
 
#23 ·
Oh, docking a baby puppy's tail close to the age of when a human baby boy's penis is circumcised is all of a sudden inhumane?

And cropping a pure breed's pup's ears is inhumane? Cropping is done under the supervision and standards of practice of a DVM.

But, these same people who want "the best for animal welfare," especially France and the Orient-are the major consumers of HORSE MEAT!

And, the Orient, Japan and China, who are so deceitful when killing whales, that they LIE and put on the side of their whale killer boats, "Research Only," as they are killing whale, after whale, after whale, after baby whale.

What hypocrisy.
 
#24 ·
And cropping a pure breed's pup's ears is inhumane? Cropping is done under the supervision and standards of practice of a DVM.
Or by someone with a pair of scissors at their kitchen table.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lchristy12
#25 ·
But, these same people who want "the best for animal welfare," especially France and the Orient-are the major consumers of HORSE MEAT!
Let's not forget that in Asia not only is eating dog meat commonplace, there's also the practice of cracking open the skulls of live monkeys and scooping out pieces of brain which is considered a 'delicacy'.
 
#27 ·
Just because there are healthier lines out there, doesn't mean that breeders are going to be more inclined to use them in their programs if those lines don't fit their ideal type, temperament, working ability and what not. I honestly don't see much of a change in breeding strategies happening, either way.
 
#33 ·
Yanno -just can't refrain. The opportunity was just sitting there waiting so deliciously for someone to bring up hack jobs by maroons. The ban will not stop nutters with scissors -but then again the nutters aren't the ones making contributions.

There have been big names throw their hands up -switching breeds.
FFS people even take longer to buy browns over there.
I'm not seeing how population narrowing is going to do a damned thing for DCM.

This is about yet *another* change to the standard & the consequences- much bigger issue than some backwoods derp.
 
#34 ·
Just an FYI. Here is an example of what happens to Doberman registrations when tail docking is banned. Below are the registration statistics from the UK. Tail docking was banned in 2007.





In Germany before the ban on cropping and docking they routinely had over 500 dogs entered at the DV Club Show. Now, they are lucky if they can get 100. Breeders in countries where cropping and docking are banned report that it takes 6-8 months to find enough homes willing to take a "natural" Dobermann to sell an entire litter. Just ask the rescues in the US about placing "natural" Dobermans.
 
#43 ·
Really, from a statistical point of view these charts mean nothing other than for 'some reason' registration dropped.

When cropping/docking was banned I am going to assume that a large portion of dogs competing were c/d. So it is only logical that once the ban was put in place the registration numbers would drop off as these dogs can no longer compete. It would take time for new litters of uncropped, undocked pups to be bred, born, raised.

Or maybe I am wrong? I do not know much about the competition world, but I do know a lot about math and statistics, and it personally bothers me when I see charts like this citing "clear evidence" of anything.

E
 
#35 ·
Neo mastiffs aren't docked are they?? I don't think I've ever seen a docked Neo and docking is still legal here!

The drop in Rottie registration is interesting, of all the docked breeds I've found that Rottie people are the most open to leaving dogs natural here, and there are quite a few winning in the ring here over docked dogs.
 
#37 ·
I'm wondering why Great Danes are highlighted. They've never been docked (that I know of, anyway), so I don't see how the docking ban would affect their registration numbers.
 
#38 ·
If you read the header on that chart, it says "Breeds who were once cropped and/or docked."
 
#41 ·
I think this is a bunch of hysteria.

First and foremost, in what way is the IDC relevant, much less critical, to the breed? Do they have a stranglehold on all dog shows and Doberman-specific events? If you don't like the course they're taking, don't pay their fees to play by their rules in their sandbox.

Second, it's freakin' cosmetic surgery. It's positively the most inconsequential aspect of the breed to be concerned about.

Third, of those people who this soft c/d exclusion might affect (because they're not already subject to legal c/d exclusions in their home countries), how many are likely to throw an epic tantrum and stop breeding/showing Dobermans because they can't continue to show new cropped/docked dogs in the IDC?

Fourth, how is this going to affect the 99% or so of current and future Doberman owners who couldn't care less about show culture or super-duper popular sire bloodlines? And don't say that it has anything to do with a slippery slope of making it easier for laws banning cosmetic surgery on pets to be passed; this rules change is only following in the wake of numerous nations passing such laws, it's not breaking much new ground. If anything, it might be levelling the playing field so contestants from nations with legal exclusions aren't at a competitive disadvantage.

Lastly, I'll go out on a limb and say that declining breed registrations don't necessarily demonstrate anything. Correlation doesn't imply causation. At any rate, declining registration numbers don't point to a shortage of breeders, but probably more towards other factors, such as:
  • Prospective new owners not wanting to spend in the neighborhood of $2500 for a dog.
  • Prospective new owners not wanting a dog belonging to a breed that's plagued by some health & longevity problems.
  • Prospective new owners being obsessed with the crop & dock of a new Doberman, because Dobermans are all about image. :rolleyesww:
  • Prospective new owners not wanting to buy a dog that the media predominantly portrays as being tough or vicious.
  • BSL or homeowner's insurance exclusions that make it more challenging to own a Doberman.

There is probably a whole lot more to declining registration numbers than c/d exclusions. Sure, they are probably a factor, but let's be realistic here, there's a whole lot else going on that's contributing.
 
#42 ·
it would be nice if all doberman breeders could agree on one standard, one that includes descriptions of an all natural doberman too.

and work together to help this breed survive. each continent sharing what they have learned about this breed, its health and welfare is in our hands, or has it slipped away already.

I agree that the reason for less dobes being bred and shown has more to do with ears cropped or not.........

entries in my area have gone WAY DOWN over the last 20 years and it has nothing to do with ears.
 
#48 ·
Dogs born & cropped/docked before 1st of January 2015 are OK to compete as long as they live.

Cropping or docking on dogs born after 1st of January 2015 will be accepted a as a disqualifying fault, and they will not be allowed at shows..
 
#51 ·
You people bringing science, good research methodology, and logical statistical analysis into the discussion sure are a buzzkill for those wanting to be all, you know, righteously angry and stuff :p
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top