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Locating a reasonable, reputable, breeder

8K views 80 replies 39 participants last post by  StarlightDobe 
#1 ·
Greetings to all. I am a new member the forum and was going to buy a puppy from a first time breeder and ended up backing out of the deal for a number of reasons - mainly the situation didn't seem right, kept getting worse, and I felt VERY uncomfortable getting the pup from them even though I wanted him very badly. I apologize for the upcoming, possibly incoherent, babble but I have a lot of random thoughts regarding this issue/search and I promise I'm not trolling so please be kind to my random-thought babble.

Currently I am looking for a puppy at a reasonable price(~$1000) without having to sacrifice quality. I've been lurking in these forums, as well as others, and have come to the conclusion that most of the members only really support breeders that charge a ridiculous amount of money for a "pet" puppy. I've gone through the list on DPCA of breeders and contacted most of them in my area and I can't believe that they charge $1,500+ for a pet. A lot of the breeders in my area have titled dogs, Good/Excellent OFA ratings posted, vWD clear, etc which is great for the breed but NOT great for the consumer's pocket book. I understand that these breeders have spared no expense along with an invaluable amount of time to do the right thing by the breed but how can the average Joe afford to get one of these dogs as purely a pet?

Lets say, hypothetically, all the Z-factored dogs were gone and we finally get rid of that pesky vWD problem, and hips/elbows/eyes were all certified excellent... the best possible scenario for the Doberman. That would leave the basically the dogs of an even higher quality remaining that would drive the price up even further making the Doberman even more out of reach for the average person, right?

My question (sorry for the babble) what is considered an acceptable dog that doesn't come from a breeder that has basically run the gambit on their dogs? Is it wrong to buy from a breeder that has been breeding for x+ years, owns the dogs, knows the history of their dogs (life span/health issues/temperament, etc) does background/reference checks, and genuinely cares where the pup goes even though they may not have done health testing or any kind of titling?

Thanks again for any responses. :thanx:
 
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#35 ·
Burns is correct. The only tests that are "one time" tests are Hip/Elbow X-rays and vWD oh yea and the DCM Gene test which only tests for ONE gene that MAY contribute to DCM - note that a number of dogs that tested Negative for the Gene were actively battling DCM at the time they were tested. Just shows how inadequate that single genetic test is in determining whether or not a dog will develop DCM. Everything else; CERF, Thyroid, DCM (holter & echo), Liver, etc. needs to be done annually.

The argument here is kind of a mute point, it is what it is. Most breeders have waiting lists and have no issues placing puppies. While the norm is $1500.00-$2000.00, there are some good breeders that charge less and others that charge more. I know of a litter available for less than $1500.00. PM me if you would like information.
 
#37 ·
Honestly from all I've read sungod, if your so unwilling to budge on price (by a small $500 difference I might add *small in the big picture of spending thousands of dollars on the animals already*) and quality you need to pick another breed or just not get a dog.

Why this breed costs so much as been more than well explained, very few of us here are rich or consider the price spent on our dogs initial purchase to be cheap but one thing we all agree on is that you get what you pay for. Your snarky rude comments and assumptions that we are all rich and have fancy cars is just unnecessary and for the vast majority here it's wrong.

So to answer your question on the ability of getting a well bred (titles/test/etc..) doberman for $1000 or less...NO NO NO

Find another breed or grow some common sense, I can tell from what you're writing you understand why it costs so much you just don't seem to see why you should have to pay so much because you just don't wanna. What do you love more? the breed and preserving it's integrity or your wallet, because your priorities seem mixed up.
 
#39 ·
My girl was a gift from my SO for my birthday. He purchased her from a first time breeder who said she had full health testing done. The sire while not titled himself had champion titled blood lines. My SO other he was getting a hell of a deal with a $600 price tag. 9 months into her life, here's my bill.

$600 for the puppy
$50 in gas to pick her up
$1500 for her ear crop. (Yes I said $1500 with two 0's after the one and five) while it healed quickly because its laser done it is one of the worst crops I have ever seen. I think the vet was drunk. Laser was my only option being in a state that refuses crop.
$200 in gas driving across state to her after crop ear appointments
$200 full thyroid panel because she was having skin issues
$60 vWD test AFTER I almost lost her during her spay because she's affect!
$100 in skin and fungal scrapes
$300 in antibiotics because she had puppy staph
$100 in gas to and from the vets every week while we tried to nail down what her skin issues were
$100 a month is food because they crap food brings on her staph and skin issues

So in 9 months this brings my dog to a grand total of $3,200

$1,500 seems pretty cheap for a healthy well breed puppy.

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't trade her for the world. But I'm my SO learned his lesson. And I hope this helps you open your eyes to the costs associated with buying cheap. Because clearly it's not.

The one good thing about all of this is I was able to talk to the breeder, convince her to "re-test" her dogs. Turns out they were both carriers of vWD. So she has decided not to breed again. Thank goodness!


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App
 
#46 ·
I don't get this whole reluctance about the price of a puppy from a reputable breeder vs. BYB anyway. It's not like there is any real difference in price by the time you pay for ears on the BYB puppy which is already done on the reputable breeders puppy. This is not including anything else that will not already be done on the BYB puppy, just looking at ear cropping.
When I sell a $1500.00 puppy, I am really selling a $1,000.00 puppy because $500 has gone to the vet for the ears. Whether you pay the vet or I pay the vet doesn't really matter. The only real difference is that I have had the cropping and aftercare taken care of so that my puppy buyer does not go through that right after getting their puppy home. And, I get nothing at all for my time, care, and supplies for doing that, it is just what you do.
 
#47 ·
Since you came here to get your question answered, I think I can safely say that everyone on this thread has answered it (suggested that you go with the well-bred dog that costs more). You aren't really saving money by getting a BYB dog because, as was said before, it can end up costing more than you intended!

If money is not an issue like you said, the bottom line advice from this thread seems to be: Get a well bred dog! This is the best advice! We can't really say more than this, so there you go.
 
#49 ·
Hey, Skoll only cost me ~$200 in driving expenses to go pick him up, that's a lot cheaper than what you're talking about. Skoll is a wonderful rescue dog which I tear my out frequently over but I wouldn't replace him for the world. ;)

I wouldn't ask you for a $5000 computer considering I know someone whom I trust who can get me quality parts for what I need for only about $750+labor and it'd last me for years. Honestly the average user doesn't need to spend more than $1500 on a custom build computer if they're looking for quality; the only reason anyone should be spending $5000 is if they're running really demanding programs/need a lot of open resources and are overpurchasing for what they need. There's no reason for me to need more than 16GB of RAM except because it's a nice bragging point, since I'm just an illustrator. But then you knew that since you build computers for a living ;)

Anyway, my next dog purchase is going to cost me roughly $1200 if I go with the breeder I've been spying (not a dobe) and I certainly don't have that kind of money to just throw away on one thing. On several things, sure. But I'll be saving for this dog anyway, because I really do want one of that breed and I don't expect to get one for another 3-4 years.



Now, I can understand not wanting to spend that much on an animal. Heck, I refuse to spend more than $50 on a cat purchase even though I would really love to have a ragdoll. That means I stick to rescues and I take what I get, not look around for someone selling "ragdolls" without papers, testing, or proof that I'm getting anything other than what I could have gotten for free from the neighbors down the street. Now before you start with "papers don't mean everything", in the cat world if you don't have papers to prove your cat is xyz breed, your cat is nothing but a muttcat, so they do actually carry more meaning in the cat world.

I'm also really not willing to spend more than $200 on dogs from certain breeds, aka not breeds I've desired from good breeders for certain jobs for a long time, so I once again stick to rescues and shelters. I eventually want a chow chow. I don't want to do the extensive breeder research or pay their prices. I'm volunteering at a chow rescue during the break between semesters (not fostering or rescuing for a good long time though!) and if I'd ever want to adopt from them, I certainly wouldn't be paying more than my set price. That's how the world works, of course.
 
#51 ·
I myself get tired of people complaining about the price of "just a dog" that is a living work of art and can be their best friend for many years, then they go pay $200 for a pair of shoes, $500 for handbag, $1,000 for a shotgun, or $10-20K for a Bass Boat. You get the idea.

It is kind of like the old farmer saying:

If you want good clean oats, you have to pay a fair price.
If you are satisfied with the oats after they have already been through the horse,
That comes a little cheaper....
 
#53 ·
What I see here...

"This person disagrees with how I think. They must be trolling."

The only person trolling is you. Please keep your replies on topic. If you have nothing valuable to contribute please pass this thread up. Your comments are not needed.
 
#57 ·
iSunGod, you posted on a forum that is very passionate about the breed. If you haven't taken the time to read our forum etiquette, please do so: Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums - Announcements in Forum : Site News

I'm not exactly sure why you started this thread if you already decided not to purchase from an ethical breeder and were not actually open to discussion or opinions that disagree with you.
 
#62 ·
Thanks for yet ANOTHER link. Glad you could chime in.

I was open to discussion. The first poster didn't even answer the question and responded with the same ole cookie-cutter response. The second copy & pasted some text from another site - not answering the question. Third- useful post. Thanked & repped. Fourth - once again didn't answer the question... need I continue? I think you got the jist of where I'm going with this. There is a difference between being passionate & being a jag. The majority, NOT all, of the people that contributed (used loosely) need to have a reminder send to them about what this site is truly about.

Once again. Lock the thread.
 
#59 ·
iSunGod, you were good! Not great, dear lord we've seen far better, but good. Enough of a distraction from work that I appreciate you a tiny bit.

On the off, off, off chance you are somewhat legit - you asked questions, received a ton of well thought out and reasonable answers by people far and away more experienced in this breed than you, people from ALL walks of life and income levels, and yet you argue every point given. At the end of the day, perhaps it's you who could benefit from a little self-reflection.

But alas you are on your merry (or is it sullen and pouting?) way so I bid you adieu.
 
#64 ·
Here is my take:

You want a doberman - I agree, nice dog
But you don't understand the philosophy - it goes something like this:

The breed is beset with health issues
The reputable breeders spend a lot of money to try to "save" the breed by finding and weeding out health issues that are genetic
This health testing costs $$$
The non-reputable breeder just throws 2 dogs together without regard for the genetics (and the titling proof) - lower cost

Your Q: Why does a quality doberman have to cost so much?

Correct Q: Which breed is like a doberman but doesn't cost as much?

The problem is that you have fixated on an expensive, unhealthy breed and want to get a quality choice. This is contradictory - choose a different breed.
 
#70 ·
I just wasted 10 minutes reading the rest of this thread - ha ha! It the OP is for real, then he does not get it and I for one will not waste my time teaching someone who does not want to learn.

BTW - the expensive SUV I drive is not paid for with puppy money (I have a spouse with a very good job).... the puppy money (if there is any) goes into a dog account that goes to help pay for more health testing and to show the next generation. I also don't breed a litter with less than $5000 set aside for the costs. I work part time to cover my dog expenses... and every penny I make goes into my dog account.

You can get a Doberman cheap - but not a well bred one.
 
#75 ·
I really find it curious that $1500 is considered an outrageous amount for a well bred puppy from a good breeder in the first place. One of the most notorious puppy mills of all time with horrendous quality dogs charges double that for some of their puppies. A LOT of crappy breeders charge more than that. I have seen puppy mill puppies in pet stores sell for that. Hell, one of my client's brother bought a 6 month old "fully protection trained" puppy for $5000. It was awesome because he did it all on the internet and was able to pay with paypal, including the shipping costs. *cough*

So you have your stupidly expensive poorly bred dogs, you have your dirt cheap poorly bred dogs, and you have your medium priced quality bred dogs.

What the hell is the problem?

And even though I paid twice what you are willing to pay for my last dog, I actually drive a 1996 Ford Bronco with 250,000 miles on it. The thing drinks like a sailor on shore leave.
 
#79 ·
I'll bet they had some cutesy made up name, too. Because everyone knows that little fuzz ball mutts with cutesy made up names are more so much more expensive and desirable than cute little fuzz ball mutts without a cutesy made up name. :rolleyesww: And yes, that is sarcasm.
 
#81 ·
Greetings to all. I am a new member the forum and was going to buy a puppy from a first time breeder and ended up backing out of the deal for a number of reasons - mainly the situation didn't seem right, kept getting worse, and I felt VERY uncomfortable getting the pup from them even though I wanted him very badly. I apologize for the upcoming, possibly incoherent, babble but I have a lot of random thoughts regarding this issue/search and I promise I'm not trolling so please be kind to my random-thought babble.

Currently I am looking for a puppy at a reasonable price(~$1000) without having to sacrifice quality. I've been lurking in these forums, as well as others, and have come to the conclusion that most of the members only really support breeders that charge a ridiculous amount of money for a "pet" puppy. I've gone through the list on DPCA of breeders and contacted most of them in my area and I can't believe that they charge $1,500+ for a pet. A lot of the breeders in my area have titled dogs, Good/Excellent OFA ratings posted, vWD clear, etc which is great for the breed but NOT great for the consumer's pocket book. I understand that these breeders have spared no expense along with an invaluable amount of time to do the right thing by the breed but how can the average Joe afford to get one of these dogs as purely a pet?

Lets say, hypothetically, all the Z-factored dogs were gone and we finally get rid of that pesky vWD problem, and hips/elbows/eyes were all certified excellent... the best possible scenario for the Doberman. That would leave the basically the dogs of an even higher quality remaining that would drive the price up even further making the Doberman even more out of reach for the average person, right?

My question (sorry for the babble) what is considered an acceptable dog that doesn't come from a breeder that has basically run the gambit on their dogs? Is it wrong to buy from a breeder that has been breeding for x+ years, owns the dogs, knows the history of their dogs (life span/health issues/temperament, etc) does background/reference checks, and genuinely cares where the pup goes even though they may not have done health testing or any kind of titling?

Thanks again for any responses. :thanx:
I didnt read the entire thread, so it is possible someone has already addressed this, but in my opinion and experience, this statement is not true. The reputable breeders out there who do the necessary testing, titling of their dogs, do so with the consumer's pocketbook clearly in mind. That is the reason they spend thousands of dollars testing, showing, titling their dogs, so that during the life of your "pet" you do not have to fork out thousands of dollars on vet bills to handle the health issues that poorly and cheap bred dogs have.

A dog from a backyard breeder can cost you many times more than the cost of a well bred pup from tested, titled parents. Vet bills for any number of genetic issues passed on from poorly bred dogs, or untested parents can run in the thousands. Ask some of the people on here who have had to deal with DCM. Bad temperaments are another issue which can be detrimental to a pups life. Issues like anxiety, hyperactivity, and the like can cost plenty in behaviourists when trying to deal with these issues, not to mention if they have to go on meds.

So, yes, tested, titled dogs are definitely good for the consumer's pocketbook, especially when thinking in the long term.
 
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